Vapour membrane > T.Frame walls.

[ToughButterCup]

17 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

....I'm not keen at all on this condescending tone.

Post deleted.

[zoothorn]

@ProDave thinking on your 'floating' noggins idea (or noggings.. have I had that wrong all along?).

 

To get the nog on the 1st boards edge, is easy/ you could even use a clamp/ screw twice in. But once you close the gap with the other board, you do not have ability to clamp. So surely without being clamped firm, your 2nd board screws will push the nog up not drive into it-?

 

IE surely the concern is (esp as you can't see what's going on) the nog will push up, & the other board's edge will damage.

 

Or are you relying purely on the very sharp point on these screws to slice into the nog with very minimal 'pushing-up' pressure? (& the other two fixings help of course keeping it down).

 

Thanks- zH

[ProDave]

20 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

@ProDave thinking on your 'floating' noggins idea (or noggings.. have I had that wrong all along?).

 

To get the nog on the 1st boards edge, is easy/ you could even use a clamp/ screw twice in. But once you close the gap with the other board, you do not have ability to clamp. So surely without being clamped firm, your 2nd board screws will push the nog up not drive into it-?

 

IE surely the concern is (esp as you can't see what's going on) the nog will push up, & the other board's edge will damage.

 

That is a risk. you have to be gentle.  I put those screws in by hand with a handheld screwdriver,. just don't push hard and let the screw bit in.

 

Plasterboard screws have very sharp points usually so will bite in with little pressure.

[zoothorn]

3 minutes ago, ProDave said:

That is a risk. you have to be gentle.  I put those screws in by hand with a handheld screwdriver,. just don't push hard and let the screw bit in.

 

Plasterboard screws have very sharp points usually so will bite in with little pressure.

 

Aha ok so my thinking wasn't unfoundered than. Right time for some tests on offcuts. I guess the better the screw/ sharper likely to be.

 

Have you had any nogs that did this on you?

[zoothorn]

Sorry another Q @ProDave..

 

were you doing this 'floating nog' idea on taper-edge boards? obviously less strong than SE boards here.

 

I am going Straight-edge boards for the ceiling.

[ProDave]

I have done it on both but mostly taper edge.

[Onoff]

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

Nope I'm not having this AB. I missed the point of what Onoff was getting at -not- because I wasn't processing due to the lectured-reasons you say, but, because as I believe it was Onoff testing to see if I could 'find the clue' (I suspect was the reason he didn't refer directly to the info that was given -within- the bigger picture) rather than 'look, btm, where it says xyz' which as a novice to all this, I actually need.

 

I didn't spell it out because on Weds of this week, page 5 of this thread, I said that I thought noggins were required to do with added fire resistance. As the thread was going a bit back and forth I took the time to find why I knew that. Tbh I I've actually heard it as word of mouth, more than once, rather than read it. I'd never heard of the White Book. I found it and posted it. It's there in black and white. For most people, even novices that would have been enough.

 

The end result btw, of what YOU do is cracking. It's just the getting there that's a bit traumatic! ?

[zoothorn]

@Onoff ok understood & explained. By god I stared at that table tho, all noggins/ joist figs / pB figs (as this was what was being discussed) trying to figure out what it was I was meant to be deciphering from it. nevermind!

 

It is fairly traumatic, yes, trying to understand replies/info for me. Many words & terms I've no knowledge of, but its often the establishing when someone might have moved on from a suggestion onto another (or not: or are they on the same point-?) with innevitable confusion & miscoms that results, nevermind trying to understand gyproc tech meant for BCO's & engineers: yes it can be difficult!

 

Nothing compared to that build tho/ having to deal with that builder, & what he's decided to build instead of as agreed, even if it does look good.

[zoothorn]

Can someone advise: I cannot get hold of Fireline pB (or std pB) suppliers are waitiing months for restock > get out to likes of me.

 

So my BCO has said I can go 'Soundblock' 12.5mm pB. The only pB I can get locally now.

 

Ok so no problem for my workshop walls.. not much difference in price or extra kg/ board over Fireline. But doesn't the ceiling -have- to be foil backed? or will I be ok using 'soundblock' pB on the ceiling too?

 

Anyone used this stuff?

 

thanks zH

[CC45]

are you going to skim the ceiling?  @nod will prob confirm - but I think most BCO's are OK with 12.5mm skimmed.  I did put 15mm + skim downstairs with us but thats because I wanted more soundproofing than the 12.5 offers.

[zoothorn]

8 minutes ago, CC45 said:

are you going to skim the ceiling?  @nod will prob confirm - but I think most BCO's are OK with 12.5mm skimmed.  I did put 15mm + skim downstairs with us but thats because I wanted more soundproofing than the 12.5 offers.

 

Yes- will be skimming it. So does that mean skimming is inherrantly a vapour-barrier as well as a nice-finishing layer, so maybe the foil is just an added belt n braces sort of thing?

 

I remember my builder saying ceiling pB (std 12.5mm stuff to plaster over) should be foil-backed.. but -why- I didn't ask, or expect any answer bar "its a vapour barrier".

 

I wonder why my floor above isn't foil-backed then, esp being chipboard, if the 'fallible' softwood joists are just under them: this means my bedroom above has walls & ceiling foiled.. but the floor not.

[PeterW]

OK so if you can't get fireline then go with 2 layers of 9mm board. It comes in smaller panels, easier to use and you just stagger the joints.

 

Should make your life much easier, and you can hide all the first layer cock ups with a decent second layer..!! Skim over the lot and job done..!

[nod]

33 minutes ago, CC45 said:

are you going to skim the ceiling?  @nod will prob confirm - but I think most BCO's are OK with 12.5mm skimmed.  I did put 15mm + skim downstairs with us but thats because I wanted more soundproofing than the 12.5 offers.

Yes 12.5 skimmed is fine 

400 centres unsupported 600 centres have to be nogged 

15 mil PB doesn’t need supporting with either centre ?

[zoothorn]

8 minutes ago, nod said:

Yes 12.5 skimmed is fine 

400 centres unsupported 600 centres have to be nogged 

15 mil PB doesn’t need supporting with either centre ?

 

Hi Nod, so to confirm 12.5 (not foil backed) is ok as long as its skimmed? (its the addition/ or not of the foil, is my Q).

 

Ok "400 centres unsupported 600 centres have to be nogged".. I'm racking my head trying to comprehend. I'm back on that table-of-hell-wtf-am-I-meant-to-be-understanding-here. My joists are 400 centres, as I understand. But "Unsupported" 600 centres.. & I'm suddenly completely lost.

 

thanks, zH

 

 

[nod]

Couldn’t see the original post so assumed you where asking about ceiling's

If you are asking about walls 

No need for nogs on 600 or 400 centres 

Foilback boards are generally used for a ceiling with a roof void above 

Or a rafter slope 

[zoothorn]

5 minutes ago, nod said:

Couldn’t see the original post so assumed you where asking about ceiling's

If you are asking about walls 

No need for nogs on 600 or 400 centres 

Foilback boards are generally used for a ceiling with a roof void above 

Or a rafter slope 

1 hour ago, nod said:

 

 

Hi Nod, ok thanks that clarifies things.

 

Yes I'm only asking about my ceiling, if 12.5mm 'soundblock' (non foiled) is ok. I understand its not a void-above type.

 

Its the bottom layer (forming the ceiling of a lower small workshop room) of a dividing floor, for a new bedroom above.

 

No need for nogs on my 400 joist centres for 15mm pB -definitely- (I understood you said this).. but 12.5mm, too? can you just confirm?

 

 

[nod]

7 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

Hi Nod, ok thanks that clarifies things.

 

Yes I'm only asking about my ceiling, if 12.5mm 'soundblock' (non foiled) is ok. I understand its not a void-above type.

 

Its the bottom layer (forming the ceiling of a lower small workshop room) of a dividing floor, for a new bedroom above.

 

No need for nogs on my 400 joist centres for 15mm pB -definitely- (I understood you said this).. but 12.5mm, too? can you just confirm?

 

 

12.5 on 400 Centres is fine 

[zoothorn]

59 minutes ago, nod said:

12.5 on 400 Centres is fine 

 

Ok nod thanks.

 

Maybe nogs is the best way, but for a humble workshop which if did get hairline cracks maybe I could just whip over, I think I'm gonna scrimp it & go nod's non-nog nod.

 

Onoff's gonna go fkn apesh*t tho. I'm putting on my ear muffs!

[Onoff]

30 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

Ok nod thanks.

 

Maybe nogs is the best way, but for a humble workshop which if did get hairline cracks maybe I could just whip over, I think I'm gonna scrimp it & go nod's non-nog nod.

 

Onoff's gonna go fkn apesh*t tho. I'm putting on my ear muffs!

 

Do whatever you want, all @Onoff cares is you do f***ing something! 

[zoothorn]

7 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

Do whatever you want, all @Onoff cares is you do f***ing something! 

 

Haha! well could do it next week if I go soundstuff now, might be able to get a delivery.

 

or do I wait for 2 more weeks & ask ask & get so many facts- facting me till I fart.

[zoothorn]

Ok pB ordered/ end next week. In meantime can I ask a Q on 'skimming' ceiling(s).

 

My top room2 above, has a sloping ceiling side section (where rafters form a collar, just one one side) and also a bit of sloped sections around the knock-thru doorway area. So the pB sections join quite abruptly, sloped bits to flat majority.

 

Will a 'skim' be able/ be appropriate? or will a full 'plaster' be needed I wonder. Can a skim navigate the abrupt joins ok?

 

Thanks, zH

 

 

[zoothorn]

16 hours ago, PeterW said:

OK so if you can't get fireline then go with 2 layers of 9mm board. It comes in smaller panels, easier to use and you just stagger the joints.

 

Should make your life much easier, and you can hide all the first layer cock ups with a decent second layer..!! Skim over the lot and job done..!

 

A good idea & easier sections/ considered Peter.. but 18mm total so 20mm skimmed call it = too much. I need to scrimp every 5mm's.

 

The only square-edge pB available was standard knauff 12.5 in fact.. this then for ceiling.

 

So I need to source a skimmer. thx zt

[PeterW]

You won't notice 5mm but thats your call - I know what I would be doing.

[zoothorn]

26 minutes ago, PeterW said:

You won't notice 5mm but thats your call - I know what I would be doing.

 

Understood. Unfortunately I think your idea came a bit late, I'd put alot of time & searching on the 12.5mm avenue I was driving on that route. I can only go with what's ordered now.. at least I only have 1 layer.

 

Is the idea to cut small holes for the light wires in the board before fixing up, & somehow pull it thru whilst getting board up (I cant see how I could, alone).. or mark/ drill a hole to leave it for electrician to enlarge/ find cable later?

[Onoff]

You should get out more and read other threads: