Onoff Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 9 hours ago, zoothorn said: especially putting up a sheet it'll be a n'mare job never having done before Worst case you lift a board wrong or it slips and breaks over your head. Rite of passage for the DIYer! ? You can generally make use of the two broken bits somewhere! Just think how many "skills" were daunting for you when you started the kitchen. You had a go and learnt in the process with a very good looking end result. ? SQUARENESS! When you do your ceiling boards the whole room may not be 100% dead square on plan. Your plasterboards are dead square. Say you are fitting this as your first board. It can be a kick in the nuts to struggle lifting it up to find doesn't touch where it should! Then to struggle to measure how much needs to be trimmed. Two people AND some sort of support is handy. Don't underestimate how knackering it is holding a board above your head with one hand trying faff with a tape measure with the other! Pretty sure seasoned plasterers have all sorts of long term neck and shoulder issues. The idea is that first board fits tight against your double header on the long and short sides. On the left hand end the board wants to finish on the halfway line of the under side of whatever posi joist makes best use of the 2400mm long board. If it fits tight against the double headers on both sides then there's less gap for draughts etc and the subsequent wall plasterboards will support better the ceiling board. It might mean trimming both long and short sides to fit to ensure this. All depends how square the room is. This is where the board lifter "robot" as you called mine is dead handy. You could screw some wood screws horizontally into the header on the short end. Two of you then lift the board and poke the short end so as supported by the temporary screws. One then supports the board with a near fitting wooden T bar. The other measures up. Or screw a second T bar / horizontal batten to the wall studs to take the short end ... Many ways to skin next door's cat! Plenty of mad ideas on diy "dry wall" and plasterboard lifters on YouTube. I like this one. You could drive that with a cordless drill: Won't you end up though paying your electrician mate more than buying a board lifter and doing it on your own? For example: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pro-11FT-Drywall-Hoist-Lift-Plasterboard-Panel-Sheet-Board-Lifter-Tool-Jack-UK/193368916963? You can flog it afterwards and make half your money or more back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 Board lifters can be had for less than £90.. https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F372485192444 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 7, 2020 Author Share Posted March 7, 2020 @Onoff appreciate the info/ post as always.. Jose seems happy with his creation there, looks like my clothes horse thing: very clever I must say & maybe I could make too, except the handle mech bit seems a bit tricky. mmm.. I think maybe sensible to think on your robot one/ link & sell afterwards. Useful.. never knew of such things before (if I'd known I'd not have got builder to do top room pB + fluff @ £570 +vat.. oh well live n learn). Jose isn't using a vcl I notice: is a vcl more important to timber frame builds then? On the foil tape to seal my studs: is this the stuff to get.. https://www.screwfix.com/p/diall-insulation-board-tape-silver-45m-x-100mm/1634v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 7, 2020 Share Posted March 7, 2020 I can't imagine where Jose lives the temperature drops that low outside ever! ? I think his scissor lift is pretty cool. The handle mech, only a length of studding. Would need some bits of tube too and a few tack welds. That tape is fine. You don't have to vcl but I would, it's so cheap to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taff Posted March 8, 2020 Share Posted March 8, 2020 I found these in a magazine, a couple of these wouldn’t break the bank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 On 06/03/2020 at 23:47, PeterW said: Decent plastering job will make it pretty airtight so don’t panic. I would use a cheap polythene layer for airtightness on the ceiling under the insulation in the workshop, bring it down the walls and tape it. Then board it when you’ve carefully measured and marked where your down lights will go. Hi PeterW. Thing I don't quite understand, is many of these how-to pB clips (Jose & Paddy with his timber rails).. no evidence of vcl. Surely if these two pros no have, then amateur-muggins here don't need. Saying that I might well be able to vcl both rooms' walls.. but I'd bet doing the lower ceiling is a stretch too far for me, but if I do walls & find it easy, then I poss could try ceiling (but not upper room one: pB is job done I'm afraid/ I know its far from ideal). @Declan52 cheers for the clip/ only just seen this reply. I notice Paddy here his downlights temp in: how much room would he have created in the PIR above each downlight? my spark wants a considerable area of my Frametherm 35 fluff (yet to buy) cleared around each he says.. urgh I say, surely the bigger the space (5x downlights) the more cold ^ up to my bedroom above via these 'burrows'. appreciated chaps- zoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 cold doesn't rise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Go and buy some Thermahoods. Insulation goes straight over the top. Loads of space for the light fitting. https://www.thermahood.com/ https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thermahood-Downlighter-Ceiling-Spotlights-Efficiency/dp/B077QHXGW1/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Onoff said: Go and buy some Thermahoods. Insulation goes straight over the top. Loads of space for the light fitting. https://www.thermahood.com/ https://www.amazon.co.uk/Thermahood-Downlighter-Ceiling-Spotlights-Efficiency/dp/B077QHXGW1/ref=mp_s_a_1_1_sspa? Looks perfect for the job- but are these only viable to install after the pB is put up? IE lofts spaces.. unlike my 200mm dividing floor space I obviously can't access top of the pB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 ...but you haven't put the PB up yet have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 Just now, dpmiller said: ...but you haven't put the PB up yet have you? No. I'm not yet fully prepped on my method both to lift one up.. & what needs doing, if anything, to the pB before its hoisted up, with regard to my downlights. I can't get my head around the lights.. how they're worked into the equation, being in a dividing floor/ how are they even put in -? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 Ok one step at a time: at the moment I've got my 100mm foil tape ready to do (over the studs). Is there any tips on how or not/ just whack it on? I'm not finding any clips to help.. or any www info. I read that it can cut you up pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, zoothorn said: with regard to my downlights. I can't get my head around the lights.. how they're worked into the equation, being in a dividing floor/ how are they even put in -? you put the cable in the right place, tack it out of the way and make sure there is plenty of slack then measure from the walls and make a map of where they go Then board the ceiling, get it skimmed and then the sparky comes along with a hole saw, marks the centres from the “map” and then you cut the holes. Cable is fished out, lamps wired and then fitted back into the ceiling. Job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 Just now, zoothorn said: Ok one step at a time: at the moment I've got my 100mm foil tape ready to do (over the studs). Is there any tips on how or not/ just whack it on? I'm not finding any clips to help.. or any www info. I read that it can cut you up pretty good. It sticks to everything ... and it sticks to itself even better ..! Cut to length, doesn’t have to be the whole length, peel off the backing at the top and position it then slowly pull the backing off as you stick it down. Pretty easy to realign, and short bits can be easier than long lengths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 @PeterW ok roger that. So how do the thermahoods fit into this equation tho? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 43 minutes ago, zoothorn said: @PeterW ok roger that. So how do the thermahoods fit into this equation tho? Why not fit downlights that are coverable with insulation and don't require hoods? How deep are the floor joists above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 As per @Onoff why do you need hoods ..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 12 minutes ago, PeterW said: As per @Onoff why do you need hoods ..?? It was me suggested hoods as his sparks was worried about covering the downlights. Didn't realise he couldn't access from above. Then saw he appears to have loads of joist depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 hour ago, PeterW said: As per @Onoff why do you need hoods ..?? @Onoff & Peter.. tbh I've no idea whether I need or not! the reason the hood idea proposed by Onoff, was bc my spark wants a flippin big (~10 inch) fluff 'burrow'/ space made around the led downlights. Now, I don't know if these even need such a big hole made, or any at all.. whether the fluff can actually be fine being in contact. As with much in life, its all down to the size of one's fluff burrows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, zoothorn said: @Onoff & Peter.. tbh I've no idea whether I need or not! the reason the hood idea proposed by Onoff, was bc my spark wants a flippin big (~10 inch) fluff 'burrow'/ space made around the led downlights. Now, I don't know if these even need such a big hole made, or any at all.. whether the fluff can actually be fine being in contact. As with much in life, its all down to the size of one's fluff burrows. Start with the downlights spec. What is being proposed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 1 hour ago, PeterW said: @Onoff well from advice of spark no.1 I bought these weeks ago (& taken out box plugged one in for test, good £ & colour temp/ me happy): https://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-cosmoseco-fixed-fire-rated-led-downlight-contractor-pack-matt-white-500lm-5-5w-220-240v-10-pack/891gx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 2 hours ago, PeterW said: As per @Onoff why do you need hoods ..?? I hadn't the knowledge to know (right up till the new word 'hood' even mentioned only hrs ago) that all downlights didn't require a cleared space/ no idea you could actually choose some that don't need it. No idea they even existed. All I can do is talk to my spark1 & he shows me what options: he cannot be expected to forsee & suggest a special type that doesn't require the typical space/ cleared area. And I can't really afford a 'special' type anyway, probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 In the Screwfix Q&As under "Fitting" they say 90mm clearance under insulation. There'll likely be a set of instructions in the box backing it up. So you need to maintain a clearance around them it seems. You need then to position "fire hoods"; be they the cloth, compressed fibre or Thermahood types where your lights will be going and "suspend" them somehow prior to your ceiling boards going on with the cabling run and coiled up ready to be pulled thru. You could wedge them in a square of pir, itself wedged between your joists. Get creative! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted March 9, 2020 Share Posted March 9, 2020 If he wants just insulation clearance then spot clips will do it easily. Just cut the hole and shove it in - they grip the edge of the boards and the pressure from the insulation holds them down. eBay is one source https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F322439800094 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoothorn Posted March 9, 2020 Author Share Posted March 9, 2020 15 minutes ago, PeterW said: If he wants just insulation clearance then spot clips will do it easily. Just cut the hole and shove it in - they grip the edge of the boards and the pressure from the insulation holds them down. eBay is one source https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F322439800094 I think this hits the nail on the head, if not the seal-proof design of Onoff hood jobs. Great idea this Peter, I think.. So is the idea thus: I whack in my frametherm 35 fluff, stuffed in like ProDave's between his posi-joists.. then put up all pB's. Once all pB's on presumably having a mark or drilled wee guide hole for my 5x light placements.. my spark1 cuts his round holes / fishes out cables / fits these spot-clips (pushing up the fluff) / fits the spots as per normal. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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