Joanna Susskind Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Hey everyone. I am on the case trying to find a good reasonably priced source for Pavaflex/Pavatherm - can anyone advise? We've found some online that would be shipped from afar. Our house is 150sqm and the cost is currently sitting around about 13k-15k for the insulation. Would love to be able to shave some off that... We have quite strict planning conditions and our wall build up all relies on this product, so there's no option to change the material (before anyone suggests we use Kingspan!) Any advice on sourcing this and installing it would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance. Joanna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeGrahamT21 Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Have you contacted the manufacturer directly? I don't know how many packs 150m2 comes to, but they may sell to you direct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanna Susskind Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 1 hour ago, MikeGrahamT21 said: Have you contacted the manufacturer directly? I don't know how many packs 150m2 comes to, but they may sell to you direct? I will try that now, thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1c Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 No idea if it would meet your planning restrictions, but have you considered an I-beam frame with blown cellulose? IIRC the U-values for cellulose & wood fibre are similar, the advantage of this method is a reduced timber fraction in the frame & ease of achieving the claimed performance of the insulation. When I looked it was also cheaper... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanna Susskind Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Nick1c said: No idea if it would meet your planning restrictions, but have you considered an I-beam frame with blown cellulose? IIRC the U-values for cellulose & wood fibre are similar, the advantage of this method is a reduced timber fraction in the frame & ease of achieving the claimed performance of the insulation. When I looked it was also cheaper... Everything is specced and we're doing it ourselves, so I'm not sure as my husband and crew have never done that before - the wood fibre has been submitted to BC too, and dictates our wall build up - also fully specced... so I'm not sure! will look in to it though, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtop Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 23 minutes ago, Joanna Susskind said: Everything is specced and we're doing it ourselves, so I'm not sure as my husband and crew have never done that before - the wood fibre has been submitted to BC too, and dictates our wall build up - also fully specced... so I'm not sure! will look in to it though, thanks I would be surprised if BC even care TBH. Ours checked the ground floor joists and are coming back when the roof is on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanna Susskind Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, redtop said: I would be surprised if BC even care TBH. Ours checked the ground floor joists and are coming back when the roof is on! They are being very strict at submission stage....! Everything has to be exactly right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 7 hours ago, Joanna Susskind said: We have quite strict planning conditions and our wall build up all relies on this product, so there's no option to change the material @Joanna Susskind can you share the exact wording of the planning condition as other than for a type of facing brick or tile (ie Ibstock Beamish Blend) planners can not dictate the use of a product by name for something that would never be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtop Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 13 minutes ago, PeterW said: @Joanna Susskind can you share the exact wording of the planning condition as other than for a type of facing brick or tile (ie Ibstock Beamish Blend) planners can not dictate the use of a product by name for something that would never be seen. agree, planning care about how it looks and BC will only care that it meets regs; so provided you meet / exceed the U value surely they cant dictate insulation type! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanna Susskind Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 13 hours ago, PeterW said: @Joanna Susskind can you share the exact wording of the planning condition as other than for a type of facing brick or tile (ie Ibstock Beamish Blend) planners can not dictate the use of a product by name for something that would never be seen. It's not that, but everything about our design is around the size of the pavatex and pavatherm wall build up. So we would need to find an exact match and adjust our whole plan if we change the materials now.... Plus we want to use the wood fibre! Just looking for a good supplier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, Joanna Susskind said: It's not that, but everything about our design is around the size of the pavatex and pavatherm wall build up. So we would need to find an exact match and adjust our whole plan if we change the materials now.... Plus we want to use the wood fibre! Just looking for a good supplier. I am intrigued to know what is so different about your design. It is surely a timber frame clad with wood fibre board (as is mine) and something (which may or may not be wood fibre) filing the frame. Have you tried the likes of insulation superstore for the wood fibre board? Perhaps the compromise needed as as I did, keep the wood fibre board on the outside but change for a different material to fill the frame with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanna Susskind Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 9 minutes ago, ProDave said: I am intrigued to know what is so different about your design. It is surely a timber frame clad with wood fibre board (as is mine) and something (which may or may not be wood fibre) filing the frame. Have you tried the likes of insulation superstore for the wood fibre board? Perhaps the compromise needed as as I did, keep the wood fibre board on the outside but change for a different material to fill the frame with. Nothing so different - but why must we change? We want to use natural materials and we love the qualities of the wood fibre. We're making the Douglas Fir frame of the house ourselves (using hand tools) right now onsite! Our project is the first of it's kind in Scotland - right in Glasgow City Centre. We are the first of 6 builders to start and someone has already commissioned us to build another house exactly like ours on one of the Scottish Western Isles! This is our dream, so we want to stick to the plan, if we can. We have budgeted for the wood fibre and would like to be able to use it. Ideally we want to avoid rock wool and Kingspan as they aren't nice to work with, and we are installing everything ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOE187 Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 I did a small job wood fibre cut to fit between studs not the easiest product to cut exact tight fit and quite a bit of dust! Would recommend Rockwool Flexi friction fit and easy to cut if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplysimon Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 could you post a make up of the wall and finishes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanna Susskind Posted March 13, 2020 Author Share Posted March 13, 2020 On 25/02/2020 at 18:33, Simplysimon said: could you post a make up of the wall and finishes? Finally got the drawing! Wood fibre order has now been placed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 ^^ No vapour control / Air tight layer? What external finish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanna Susskind Posted March 13, 2020 Author Share Posted March 13, 2020 On 22/08/2019 at 14:14, the_r_sole said: who's your engineer for the project? do GCC give you soil test/trail pit results with the plots or have they already tamed engineers to deliver on the plots? It's an interesting design that you've gone for, it's very rural in character - is your big window looking to the canal? 46 minutes ago, ProDave said: ^^ No vapour control / Air tight layer? What external finish? The OSB provides the airtightness. There isn't any requirement for a membrane with our insulation... Attaching PDF with full details here. Board & baton larch cladding on the outside. Like the attached image... Timber_frame_techincal_manual.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanna Susskind Posted March 13, 2020 Author Share Posted March 13, 2020 On 24/02/2020 at 16:06, MikeGrahamT21 said: Have you contacted the manufacturer directly? I don't know how many packs 150m2 comes to, but they may sell to you direct? This worked out really well! Found someone who's selling direct and got a massive discount on delivery... thanks! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, Joanna Susskind said: The OSB provides the airtightness. There isn't any requirement for a membrane with our insulation... Attaching PDF with full details here. Board & baton larch cladding on the outside. Like the attached image... Timber_frame_techincal_manual.pdf 3.55 MB · 0 downloads Our design was the same, but while OSB can provide the air tightness, I was not convinced it was enough as the vapour barrier so I chose to add an air tight / vapour tight membrane over the OSB on the inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADLIan Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 +1 @ProDave From BS 5250 vapour resistance of 13mm OSB is approx 7 MNs/g. Compare to vapour resistance of 0.12mm (500g) polyethylene sheet at approx 250 MNs/g. This would be classed as a (A)VCL - the OSB offers little resistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simplysimon Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 i used propassive osb as my vapour layer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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