AshandOak Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Hello! I've joined the forum because I've seen the excellent advice on past issues related to narrow access for fire engines and wanted to see what people's thoughts were on knocking through a 2.4m garage to access a half acre flat plot. I'm a bit of a self build geek and love to hear all the successful challenges people have overcome with photos and floorplans of the results. A self build is my dream and no plot is perfect so I just need to understand what my options are on an otherwise landlocked plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Does it not depend on planning permission initially (suitable access)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Welcome. 26 minutes ago, AshandOak said: ... people's thoughts ... on knocking through a 2.4m garage to access a half acre flat plot ... Get the access designed. Get it approved. Do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Local architects should give advise on what the planners will require ( if like us the planners were not helpful). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshandOak Posted February 20, 2020 Author Share Posted February 20, 2020 Thanks for the replies! Planning permission in our area takes absolutely the maximum time allowed by legislation so I want to make sure I'm not wasting my time due to an obvious problem. What are the pros and cons of local architects vs further away but bespoke self build architects? I've found one about 80 miles away in a neighbouring county who has extensive experience with self builds but you raise a good point about local knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) 2.4m will not be wide enough for the minimum width for a fire engine even with all allowed compromises made (think it is 2.75m), so you will either need the entire dwelling to be within hose reach of the road (I believe 45m) or plan alternative allowed provision, such as a complete sprinkler system. Or get an extra bit of width from somewhere. Check those numbers with planning (just phone up and ask what the policy is) but I think they are correct. If it has Ashes and Oaks on it then I would suggest getting all the ashes out now, since most of them will die anyway in the next few years. ATB Ferdinand Edited February 20, 2020 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 (edited) Might be tempting to go for Outline with a local architect / planner who knows the foibles and prejudices and PEZs (planning erogenous zones ie hot buttons *) of the particular Council, then your ideal one to do the Detailed Design. F * Eg detail of the weak provision towards the required housing mix that you can leverage, or the status of the Local Plan that might engage the NPPF presumption to develop even in a possibly marginal application. Edited February 20, 2020 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 54 minutes ago, AshandOak said: [...] pros and cons of local architects vs further away but bespoke self build architects [...] Knowledge of local politics, as opposed to the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jimbo Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 As Ferdinand said they are ways around it. Whole house sprinkler systems must have come down a lot in price ? I think you now have to have them in all new properties in Wales i believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 13 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said: As Ferdinand said they are ways around it. Whole house sprinkler systems must have come down a lot in price ? I think you now have to have them in all new properties in Wales i believe. I am not sure that people in Wales think they have come down in price ! ??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Big Jimbo said: As Ferdinand said they are ways around it. Whole house sprinkler systems must have come down a lot in price ? I think you now have to have them in all new properties in Wales i believe. I wish they would. They are still expensive. So creating access will most likely be cheaper unless its impossible. (my access is a footpath through a graveyard - it's gonna cost approx 500.000 to widen so sprinklers it is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 I would find 2.4M to be just too narrow. That will be quite a squeeze for many cars and will prohibit a lot of "normal" things that people might want like a caravan for instance. Rather than just knock through, can you not completely remove the garage and it's walls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshandOak Posted February 20, 2020 Author Share Posted February 20, 2020 Through the forum I'm aware of the fire engine 45m rule and that's something to bear in mind on the plot. The garage would be removed entirely but measuring it today the width is 2.4m. So that gives only a few cm more in terms of drive through space. It would be for us to live in and we don't have any interest in caravans so that's one issue put to bed! I have very detailed knowledge of local politics, our Local Plan and the ridiculous numbers of square box houses springing up all over our area. There's no 'local need' because of all the overpriced boxes. But there has not been a single self build plot in over 5000 house permissions granted. Sprinkler system is something to bear in mind depending on how far into the plot we can build. Oh and there's only 1 ash and 1 oak (rather than ashes and oakes) and they have TPOs on them. They are at the two furthest corners of the plot so are no bother within the plans. Interesting idea about outline with local and full with my preferred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Do they have a 5 year housing supply in place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshandOak Posted February 20, 2020 Author Share Posted February 20, 2020 Yes. It took a long time but there's actually an over supply if anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, AshandOak said: Yes. It took a long time but there's actually an over supply if anything. Oh dear. If not in place it may have helped. Mine just canned their local plan again, and have been trying to get one done since about 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshandOak Posted February 20, 2020 Author Share Posted February 20, 2020 They're saying they need to redo it but it's not even been live for 3 years so pretty pathetic for a 20 year strategy. My area has doubled in housing numbers in 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 If the site is within the settlement boundary and house prices in the area are over £3500 per m2 it may be worth demolishing the existing buildings and gaining consent for, say, four new houses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshandOak Posted February 20, 2020 Author Share Posted February 20, 2020 There's certainly room for it and if I wanted it to make me money I might. But I really want to live in the area and have a bespoke home for my kids to grow up in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redtop Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 10 hours ago, ProDave said: I would find 2.4M to be just too narrow. That will be quite a squeeze for many cars and will prohibit a lot of "normal" things that people might want like a caravan for instance. Rather than just knock through, can you not completely remove the garage and it's walls? A dream, ! 1.8m and steep! Sprinkler system going in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshandOak Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 Completely removing the garage and walls leaves 2.7m. I'm considering taking half a metre off the side of the existing house. Is that a ridiculous idea or feasible for c£10k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFDIY Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Is there a height restriction (minimum) as well, could you build a new wall inside the existing downstairs and then cantilever the upper part of the house to save on disruption to existing house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshandOak Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 It's a single storey (bungalow) so no height restrictions and just a straightforward straight wall. It would be removing the hallway so straight into living room. Knocking through the kitchen into the living room because otherwise the kitchen would be one unit wide plue a metre. Bathroom would have 0.5m off but it has a water tank cupboard currently which could go as the kitchen boiler is ancient and could be replaced with a combi boiler. Then taking 0.5m off the second bedroom the full length. The garden is huge so could extend both rear bedrooms by a metre if it was economically worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshandOak Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 You could get several houses on 0.5 acre. Would it be worth just demolishing the whole bungalow to make a much nicer access road complete with pavements both sides or tree lined? Might increase the value of the new houses? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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