Jeremy Harris Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Installing a heat pump isn't a building control issue, so DIY isn't a problem. The only issue is that ASHPs may need planning consent, a hangover from the days when they used to make a bit of noise, I think. The reality is that modern ASHPs are often quieter than a gas or oil fired boiler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jeremy Harris said: The only issue is that ASHPs may need planning consent, a hangover from the days when they used to make a bit of noise, I think. The reality is that modern ASHPs are often quieter than a gas or oil fired boiler. My understanding was that for a residential dwelling a single ASHP that provided heating only, installed to MCS20, and at least 1m from boundary was permitted development (other conditions may apply) https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/27/heat_pumps/2 Edited February 10, 2020 by Moonshine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Moonshine said: My understanding was that for a residential dwelling a single ASHP that provided heating only, installed to MCS20, and at least 1m from boundary was permitted development (other conditions may apply) That's my understanding too. I put our ASHP install through as a non-material amendment to our planning consent, as it was a DIY install. All DIY installs, in theory, may require planning consent because they will not have an MCS chit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jeremy Harris said: All DIY installs, in theory, may require planning consent because they will not have an MCS chit Fair point on the MCS 020 , and if i end up having to put a revised planning permission in, i may put in a ASHP in the drawings / noise assessment to get round the issue and make it a DIY install as from this thread the cost savings seem significant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Moonshine said: Fair point on the MCS 020 , and if i end up having to put a revised planning permission in, i may put in a ASHP in the drawings / noise assessment to get round the issue and make it a DIY install as from this thread the cost savings seem significant! The planning officer wasn't the slightest bit interested in the ASHP change (our original consent specified a GSHP in the D&A statement). It literally went through on the nod, very quickly. For us, the premium for an MCS install would have more than doubled the cost, and we'd never have got even a fraction of that premium back through the RHI, as the RHI payments were only going to be roughly £80/year for 7 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Davies Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 44 minutes ago, Jeremy Harris said: All DIY installs, in theory, may require planning consent because they will not have an MCS chit. In Scotland you only need: Quote MCS Planning Standards the product and installation standards for air source heat pumps specified in the Microgeneration Certification Scheme MCS 020(a). Dunno if that means that you actually need an MCS install or if a suitable DIY install would be sufficient. I.e., pick an approved heat pump and follow the MIs. Anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Here I was told that it means that the installation must be by an MCS accredited installer, in order to show that it complies with the MCS spec. Not at all sure whether anyone would ever bother to check, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Ed Davies said: Dunno if that means that you actually need an MCS install or if a suitable DIY install would be sufficient. I.e., pick an approved heat pump and follow the MIs. Anything else? This is where it gets interesting, for permitted development you have to get it installed by a certified person, where as if you get general planning then i presume that you don't. https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/27/heat_pumps/3 Quote The scheme includes certification for products and installer companies. One of the limits of permitted development rights for wind turbines and air source heat pumps is that equipment must be installed by an installer who has been certificated through the scheme using a certificated product. While it is ultimately the landowners responsibility to ensure that all of the conditions and limits to be permitted development will be met, the installer of the equipment should check to ensure that the installation complies with the Microgeneration Certification Scheme planning standards (MCS 020), including requirements on noise. In regards to general planning permission, the only things that i could see being a big issue is potential visual impact and noise. If you did it through general planning, i don't think that you could used the MCS 020 noise calculation / assessment method (you could try), and it would have to be assessed to BS 4142:2014, which if there local authority where really wanted to go by the book may involve noise surveys to determine background noise levels at the nearest receivers (unless they accepted an assumed value). Edited February 10, 2020 by Moonshine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 The things are so quiet that I doubt anyone would know that you had one installed, unless it was on view. Our MVHR makes more noise outside than the ASHP does, and our old gas combi boiler was a lot noisier outside - that could be hear from across the street when it fired up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 14 minutes ago, Jeremy Harris said: The things are so quiet that I doubt anyone would know that you had one installed, unless it was on view. i agree, though it really depends how close the receptors are and the background noise levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadnaught Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 11 hours ago, Moonshine said: noise assessment I wonder what a noise assessment for an ASHP looks like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 7 hours ago, Dreadnaught said: I wonder what a noise assessment for an ASHP looks like? Very similar to an assessment of an external A/C condenser unit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbiniho Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 10 hours ago, Dreadnaught said: I wonder what a noise assessment for an ASHP looks like? This is the assessment that needs to be done for permitted development https://mcscertified.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/MCS-020.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farm boy Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Still have not made a commitment on my heating, would like to go for ASHP but had some higher than expected quotes back. All over 11k and thats just for the ashp and tank. Sure "rake off" going on with the pricing which i just don't like. If you fit your own ASHP how does one get the unveted cylinder installed, don't they need to be signed off by a cerftified plumber to pass building regs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 6 minutes ago, farm boy said: If you fit your own ASHP how does one get the unveted cylinder installed, don't they need to be signed off by a cerftified plumber to pass building regs I installed my own ASHP and DHW cylinder, got a neighbour plumber to help and he signed it off for me. Are you going fir RHI ? as this appears to bump the price up a lot and in a lot of people’s minds not worth the extra cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Like @joe90 I installed my own UVC and then got a local friendly plumber with the right ticket to test it and certify it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farm boy Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Looks like that's the way to go, with a pre plumbed cylinder there would not be a lot to get wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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