"Caber+" floor to fit/ Q's.

[Declan52]

Your floor will be made up of 10/15/20 separate boards of all sizes. Once they are laid and glued up then it all becomes one solid lump of flooring.

Who ordered the flooring??

Who took delivery of the flooring??? 

Did they check if the flooring for both areas came on the same lorry was it the same brand???

A 1 litre bottle of d4 glue is under a £10 do why is your bill £40??

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Everbuild-D4-Wood-Adhesive-adhesive/dp/B001OXA4GM

Considering you haven't handled confrontation well in the past do you really want to go down that route again???

Please wear gloves when using d4 glue as it doesn't come of your skin very easy. Don't scratch your head either or its a number 1 with the razor you will be getting.

[Russell griffiths]

There is an old saying @zoothorn

would you rather be right or happy, move on go and buy a couple of new sheets and some glue, get the floor down and don’t even bother the builder. 

£40 is not worth the stress. 

[zoothorn]

43 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

Your floor will be made up of 10/15/20 separate boards of all sizes. Once they are laid and glued up then it all becomes one solid lump of flooring.

Who ordered the flooring??

Who took delivery of the flooring??? 

Did they check if the flooring for both areas came on the same lorry was it the same brand???

A 1 litre bottle of d4 glue is under a £10 do why is your bill £40??

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Everbuild-D4-Wood-Adhesive-adhesive/dp/B001OXA4GM

Considering you haven't handled confrontation well in the past do you really want to go down that route again???

Please wear gloves when using d4 glue as it doesn't come of your skin very easy. Don't scratch your head either or its a number 1 with the razor you will be getting.

 

Ok understand the 20 sections of different sizes, thanks.

 

He ordered the flooring. It just appeared suddenly one day, a pile all looking identical (as these two were mid stack, & how was I whose never even seen such sections of floor, meant to know anything other than 1. they look identical, & 2. establishing the floor area/ & area of boards was just in excess= boards all fine).

 

Not ordered, the 2x boards are obviously spares from the floor they built for the room above. Different floor boards to caber+ presumably part of the whole the TF Co's package of items for the build. I only established this yesterday (after an hour puzzling over these two, so identical they look). So, he just ordered 2x less cabers for my floor below & shoved these in mid pile knowing it'd be months before I got round to laying it & found out they're useless. 3x £13.11+ vat = £40. In jewsons, from memory.

 

It seems you can only see it only from my builder's pov but not mine (this is the distinct impression) which after being shafted & hoodwinked countless times by this guy, even if its for ~ £100 in this final eg.. I find unfathomable. Why can't you empathise with a client with little knowledge of the new materials (as clients we don't know them esp new stuff like caber xyz) rather than imply its a mistake of mine I have these two to contend with??

 

Am I just meant to take being shafted & hoodwinked by a builder as par for the course being a client?? I honestly have no idea. As Ive never had a build done before (& are you suggesting I should? I think maybe so). But my instincts strongly say a huge NO.. & I doubt wholeheartedly you would put up with any of it.

[zoothorn]

Spot the difference?

 

 

[Onoff]

9 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Spot the difference?

 

 

 

You're a dab hand with a router, can't you modify the tongues?

 

Might be an option if you can't get out or get it delivered etc.

[zoothorn]

1 hour ago, Declan52 said:

Considering you haven't handled confrontation well in the past do you really want to go down that route again???

 

 

I have handled confronting this damn builder like a boss thanks. Like a boss. Ive stood up for myself calmly, without raising my voice to his nastiness, pointed out clearly & perfectly reasonably my concerns all the way along.. & finally.. finally he caved in (as it were, so far as any builder would- not alot) by agreeing to do two small jobs for me foc (even with seemingly a few here all baying for the builder having 'done it correct!! done what he could!!' which I must say I believe 100%, was incorrect advice). But I take these foc jobs -only- as partial recompense for the build being not as I wanted/ not as the plan/ & I will always be unhappy about. That, is sticking up for plain principles & handing confrontation very well indeed thanks.

 

I will admit I haven't taken confrontation on here well though. When you feel 1 against a stack of people (for eg as said, seemingly all baying for the builder having done the build right on everything, & my having been in the wrong instead) & you know you're right.. instinct is to fight/ fight, & I can blow a fuse on a post! I think understandably so, but I fully admit better to have just refrained on some occasions.

Edited April 26, 2020 by zoothorn

[zoothorn]

6 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

You're a dab hand with a router, can't you modify the tongues?

 

Might be an option if you can't get out or get it delivered etc.

 

No because then they won't be  the same exact length boards' grey area.. & also the actual layout/ geometry of where the t or the g edges are, is entirely different on different edges to the cabers. They do not fit into the top (cabers).

 

I mean surely you can understand, from this photo, from a client pov.. that it was logical to assume nothing other than they're the same? Surely!

Edited April 26, 2020 by zoothorn

[Onoff]

23 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

I mean surely you can understand, from this photo, from a client pov.. that it was logical to assume nothing other than they're the same? Surely!

Edited 21 minutes ago by zoothorn

 

Nobody's disputing that at all, why would you even keep batting on about it? You have an issue people are trying to help. Move on.

 

Presumably and as ever without decent photos I'm guessing, the boards you've already laid have finished with the tongue sticking out? Furthermore that you've glued and screwed these. Judging by everything else you'll have done a fine job and they ain't coming up again! ?

 

Have you finished the boards you've done the full width of the room?

 

If you could modify by routing, the groove down JUST the long side of the wrong boards to fit the tongue of the laid, correct boards you could carry on. Doesn't really matter it the joints don't line up. As said above you're well supported by the PIR underneath.

 

If you're in lockdown you might as well get creative!

[Declan52]

From the outside looking in the questions I asked are to try to find out certain details like who ordered the floor and who took delivery.  If you had ordered board X and board y turned up and you checked the delivery docket and spotted the mistake then you can send the wrong board back. After you have signed for it saying you have accepted delivery then your more asking politely to get it changed rather than demanding.

As far as your past issues I really couldn't care less who is to blame. You come on here each and every time some problem pops up and get further and further stressed out. Other members give you a range of options to try to help you rectify the problem but as above with your reply to my post you have came back with a reply in which you reckon I am taking the builders side. I have only tried to give you advice as I would try to do it. 

So in the words of Peter Jones I'm out.

[zoothorn]

20 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

Nobody's disputing that at all, why would you even keep batting on about it? You have an issue people are trying to help. Move on.

 

Presumably and as ever without decent photos I'm guessing, the boards you've already laid have finished with the tongue sticking out? Furthermore that you've glued and screwed these. Judging by everything else you'll have done a fine job and they ain't coming up again! ?

 

Have you finished the boards you've done the full width of the room?

 

If you could modify by routing, the groove down JUST the long side of the wrong boards to fit the tongue of the laid, correct boards you could carry on. Doesn't really matter it the joints don't line up. As said above you're well supported by the PIR underneath.

 

If you're in lockdown you might as well get creative!

 

Hi Onoff. I haven't started the job yet (I need days of prep to clarify how/ what to do.. finding these 2x rogue boards scuppered me going ahead at the wknd/ as I cannot get more now for months).

 

Glued & screwed? are they meant to be both glued & screwed together? you can't be referring to fixing onto the PIR, so I'm not quite following the Q.

 

Its certainly in theory an ok idea to modify the edges by router.. in practise tho, its impossible without nipping into the grey surface area (to 'elongate the groove': & doing so, will mean they're then smaller than the cabers. Its defo a no can do.

 

19 hours ago, Declan52 said:

 

 

 

 

 

[Onoff]

This is going to sound really daft but is is that you are just looking at the tongue from two different sides?

 

I have no experience of Caber but the T&G type chipboard flooring I'm used to has the tongue longer one side to fit the corresponding female. Best pic I could find:

 

 

Is that you just need to turn those two errant boards through 180deg and they will match the others? Might just have been the way they were loaded at the BM.

 

As for the glued and screwed I'd assumed these boards are going to be screwed onto joists that have pir in between. Also that you will be gluing afvthe T&G joint.

 

No I'm not referring to screwing to the pir. Only a f@ckwit would do that! ?

Edited April 27, 2020 by Onoff

[zoothorn]

19 hours ago, Declan52 said:

From the outside looking in the questions I asked are to try to find out certain details like who ordered the floor and who took delivery.  If you had ordered board X and board y turned up and you checked the delivery docket and spotted the mistake then you can send the wrong board back. After you have signed for it saying you have accepted delivery then your more asking politely to get it changed rather than demanding.

As far as your past issues I really couldn't care less who is to blame. You come on here each and every time some problem pops up and get further and further stressed out. Other members give you a range of options to try to help you rectify the problem but as above with your reply to my post you have came back with a reply in which you reckon I am taking the builders side. I have only tried to give you advice as I would try to do it. 

So in the words of Peter Jones I'm out.

 

I understand trying to ask who ordered boards. I did say twice my builder ordered them. On my quote WAY back it said "supply floor PIR, supply floor". I asked what floor? "concrete 70mm" ie usual type. So I assumed it would be fitted.. 'supply floor' means to all intents & purposes, to any client, 'floor to be done'. When I was trying desperately to establish if, or not, the floor had in fact been fitted as I just see a concrete top & did not know (& I couldn't ask builder because he was lying continuously/ hoodwinking me, so no faith in his answers).. I ask on here for help.

 

Once it was established that the floor had likely -not yet- been laid, but, that I only knew one thing that the work on this stage -had- been completed by my builder.. I naturally ask "so where is the floor??". I ask on here for advice again > only then was it spotted that two tiny words "& fit" absent on quote, & so likely A) it was yet to come & B) that I was to be fitting it (What, me??! but how? him leaving me a mixer, bags of xyz materials?? No, its not feasable. So how would this concrete floor happen?? yet more confusion --it never ceases on this build from day 1 to last-- & I still don't know the answer to this Q).

 

THEN I have the bright idea of instead using an easier floor.. I did not like the idea of making a floor of concrete, Id never mixed concrete, or know how to level a floor, or have tools to do it, & angry in the knowledge -I- the client was expected to do it [is this common practise?? to clients?? to Mrs miggins mixing concrete/ making a floor?? No, is all I know].

 

I ask BO officer can I go 50mm insulation & 22mm chipboard instead? (reason: less H: I need every extra cm). Yes, ok. I then ask builder can ewe substitute orig floor material, for 22mm chipboard? Yes ok. Weeks later the boards appear in a stack plus the 50mm PIR. All look identical as I think you can appreciate from my photo. I count & measure, measure floor area: more boards than floor. I have as far as I know, I've checked/ ticked the materials.

 

So here I am, the damn confusion continuing 5 months after he's build & we've settled up.. finding these fkn 2 boards taking me an hour to figure out why they don't fit.

 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

4 minutes ago, Onoff said:

This is going to sound really daft but is is that you are just looking at the tongue from two different sides?

 

I have no experience of Caber but the T&G type chipboard flooring I'm used to has the tongue longer one side to fit the corresponding female. Best pic I could find:

 

 

Is that you just need to turn those two errant boards through 180deg and they will match the others? Might just have been the way they were loaded at the BM.

 

As for the glued and screwed I'd assumed these boards are going to be screwed onto joists that have pir in between. Also that you will be gluing afvthe T&G joint.

 

No I'm not referring to screwing to the pir. Only a f@ckwit would do that! ?

 

Perfectly reasonable Q Onoff, understandable.

 

But I spent ages twisting it L to R, T to Btm, every which way to try & mate it with a caber+.. until I had to take breaks telling myself it had to fit/ why not etc until my head hurt (not knowing anything other than they are all the same at this point).. but finally I 100% concluded they had to be different. 100% sure. Always 1cm gap, just did not join. If I could find out what make these are.. final proof.

 

Marking on the boards tally with this conclusion (tho un-discernable on the two odd'uns, clear caber+ writing on majority) also two odd'uns have both grey sides, cabers have one brown underside: implying perhaps different, but not conclusively so. Once I'm adamant defo different, I look for t&g differences: cabers seem slightly longer tongues/ grooves/ slightly different in profile: very very tricky job to fettle them.

[zoothorn]

14 minutes ago, Onoff said:

This is going to sound really daft but is is that you are just looking at the tongue from two different sides?

 

I have no experience of Caber but the T&G type chipboard flooring I'm used to has the tongue longer one side to fit the corresponding female. Best pic I could find:

 

 

Is that you just need to turn those two errant boards through 180deg and they will match the others? Might just have been the way they were loaded at the BM.

 

As for the glued and screwed I'd assumed these boards are going to be screwed onto joists that have pir in between. Also that you will be gluing afvthe T&G joint.

 

No I'm not referring to screwing to the pir. Only a f@ckwit would do that! ?

 

No I was just asking if you were suggesting they needed screwing -together- (not into PIR) as well as the glue. No then.

 

I've just set a bed of 50mm PIR, onto my concrete "whatever-its-called-its-not-the-floor" surface. I have 9mm spacers. I have my 1st board down. I have the day to try & fit the cabers. I will have a flaming gap where I'm unable to complete the job due to 2 unuseable boards.

 

Thanks.

[ProDave]

I'll have a try.

 

Start your floor using the stack of "good" boards.

 

There should be ZERO waste.  What you cut off a board when you do the first row, becomes the starting board for row 2 etc, so absolutely zero waste.

 

You say you have more boards than floor. So there is a high chance you will finish the floor and still have the 2 odd ones left over, not needed.

 

Stop worrying about it unless or until you have used up all the "good" boards and the floor is not finished.

[zoothorn]

@Onoff

 

I -think- the proof these are different/ are incompatible is this. But can you concur so I'm 110% sure?

 

I have a caber & rogue board facing me. Like the photo eg above. Landscape format.

 

Tongues along the top on both boards. So I am looking at the bigger area of visible tongue, from this angle. On the caber it is the grey side. So I am looking at the TOPSIDE of both boards. So far, they are similar.

 

Ok I look to the RHS edge. On the caber+ I have the groove edge. On the rogue board I have tongue.

 

This surely is proof enough they are different -and- they are incompatible. Would you agree? (or am I being thick/ am I missing something?)

[PeterW]

@zoothorn can you lay the boards side by side and show the difference of the T&G against each other 

[zoothorn]

6 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I'll have a try.

 

Start your floor using the stack of "good" boards.

 

There should be ZERO waste.  What you cut off a board when you do the first row, becomes the starting board for row 2 etc, so absolutely zero waste.

 

You say you have more boards than floor. So there is a high chance you will finish the floor and still have the 2 odd ones left over, not needed.

 

Stop worrying about it unless or until you have used up all the "good" boards and the floor is not finished.

 

Aha ok. That clarifies things thanks ProDave. No I have defo established I'll be short (builder left me only 0.5 sQm of excess in board area vs floor) so I'll still need 2 new cabers.

 

Any idea what they cost each approx? jewsons don't allow me to see prices/ no-one in my place so I assume TP the same: why is bewildering/ most stupid thing Ive ever known.

[ProDave]

We are in the middle of a lockdown. There are no merchants open here. The only place I could get floor boards if I needed them right now would be B&Q and I bet they would be yet a different make to the two you have.

 

Frustrating though it is for all of us, you might have to wait if you really need some more.

 

As well as the pictures that @PeterW asked for, try putting the tongue of one make into the groove of the other make and photograph it end on so we can see in what way they don't fit.

[zoothorn]

3 minutes ago, PeterW said:

@zoothorn can you lay the boards side by side and show the difference of the T&G against each other 

 

Honestly I'm so struggling with camera to take even 1 pic, let alone focus in dark room PeterW.

 

Even if t&g the same which I can for certain say they are not: I have a rogue offcut I pushed & prodded up to a caber.. always 1cm gap & do not 'mate' at all: I have differing profiles at the RHS (short) edge. Groove on caber, tongue on rogue.

[ProDave]

10 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

Honestly I'm so struggling with camera to take even 1 pic, let alone focus in dark room PeterW.

 

Even if t&g the same which I can for certain say they are not: I have a rogue offcut I pushed & prodded up to a caber.. always 1cm gap & do not 'mate' at all: I have differing profiles at the RHS (short) edge. Groove on caber, tongue on rogue.

You only need the long edge of make A to mate with make B

 

You would then use the two rogue boards just for one row of floor, and in that case their end tongue and grooves would mate.

 

And you would use the pair or rogue boards as either the very first row or the very last row, NOT a row in the middle.

 

If you can't get make A tongue to push unto make B groove, try the other way, make B tongue pushing into make A groove.  If one way fits but not the other, that determines if the two rogue boards will become your first or your last row.

[zoothorn]

5 minutes ago, ProDave said:

We are in the middle of a lockdown. There are no merchants open here. The only place I could get floor boards if I needed them right now would be B&Q and I bet they would be yet a different make to the two you have.

 

Frustrating though it is for all of us, you might have to wait if you really need some more.

 

As well as the pictures that @PeterW asked for, try putting the tongue of one make into the groove of the other make and photograph it end on so we can see in what way they don't fit.

 

I know- I won't be able to finish the job for months now.

 

Ok I have an offcut. Useful so I can offer it up to both boards, see the join. I plonk its groove onto its identical rogue board tongue edge: slides on to make a tight fit with 2mm gap (I saw the builders tonk these boards together with block, so with glue say a 3mm > tonk > a tight fit).

 

I plonk it onto the caber tongue, the one in my photo (so Ive placed onto the rogue board resting on floor.. then onto the caber board resting on shelf just above it). It only rests on the groove profile, with a full cm gap. Now its conceivable it could be forcefully tonked to close the gap, but, this risks breaking the caber groove out & up into room I would say. I cannot try this test as I might break a caber edge I need to use.

 

But again, the pudding-proof is surely the differing profile/ layout of the two different boards' edges: they do not tally.. so I'll never have the groove where I need it, but instead a tongue (& if I flip rogue board round to have a tongue where I need it on the edge.. I now have the wrong profile on the longer top). Incompatible. I think.

[zoothorn]

4 minutes ago, ProDave said:

You only need the long edge of make A to mate with make B

 

You would then use the two rogue boards just for one row of floor, and in that case their end tongue and grooves would mate.

 

And you would use the pair or rogue boards as either the very first row or the very last row, NOT a row in the middle.

 

If you can't get make A tongue to push unto make B groove, try the other way, make B tongue pushing into make A groove.  If one way fits but not the other, that determines if the two rogue boards will become your first or your last row.

 

That's a clever idea.. understand this negates the edge profile needing to match the caber. But if I start with the two rogues, to make a row together, I still have the loooong tongue edge ready to be joined onto, unable to mate with the caber+ groove to make the 2nd row.

 

This is now gone into nut-frying territory. I was ready to proceed without these damn two, leaving gap at the end.. but now if I can fettle these two sods to join & use as a 1st row, maybe I can figure this out. JesusH. I don't know what to do now.

[PeterW]

3 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

don't know what to do now.

Buy two Caber+ boards. 

[Onoff]

Buy a camera ffs! ? Have you not got a modern smart phone with a camera? It would stop people having to assume / guess etc all the time.

 

For example:

 

https://www.morgancomputers.co.uk/c/426/Compact-Bridge-Cameras/