Borehole's (particularly Scottish one's)

[SuperJohnG]

 

I'm currently facing a (minor) dilemma in the final points before I conclude the purchase of my plot. 

 

I've sorted most things, power was easy to get a formal quotation (albeit sore at £18k) and get agreement from the two farmers, to cross their land, couldn't have been more straightforward. 

 

The water though is a PITA. The main is 500m away, 400 of those on a B road. I have the costs from Scottish water to do the connection, (circa £1k) but I was hoping to drop right into a field a go round the edge and backfill and reinstate but that farmer won't have it. Hence I a now need to try another route to avoid digging up 400m on the road. As digging up the road and reinstating will be horrifically expensive in excess of £25k I am estimating so far (ball park figure from one utility company was £50k - which was ridiculous).

 

Hence the borehole option I have been slowly looking into as a backstop really if I can get the price down but it's looking possibly more likely. If a can save significant amounts £5k plus I'd go for it. 

 

I have contacted two companies who have given ballpark figures. First guy said to budget £20k but it would likely be completed for £14k. The second said to budget up to £25k. 

Of course in true buildhub fashion I have set about ways to rationalise, derisk and reduce costs. 

 

I have read the three borehole threads on here and also @JSHARRIS (for some reason tag won't work?) blog and woes, which was a PITA but to me are just one of those things you really can't control. 

 

Has anyone else opted for a borehole? particularly in Scotland. I have contacted Raeburn drilling and Highwater scotland for pricing, does anyone have any real world experience of completing this in Scotland? is there any companies they would recommend?

 

I have checked the BGS website (see below) the red dot being my plot. Its actually located at the bottom point of a some hills and is a low point so I'm hoping water isn't too deep. 

 

There is also a spring within 100m which used to feed a farm, but they went on the mains as it used to dry up in summer, albeit, it was a spring not a borehole. 

 

Also. In an effort to control and reduce costs, has anyone undertaken the topside themselves? It doesn't seem particularly taxiing once you have tested the water and ideintified the treatment required, this could be purchased direct to reduce costs. E.g. One company quoted the Grundfos pump at £2.5k, but it's only £1k.

 

One thing I can't seem to find easily ('ve not tried to look that hard) is how the pump is supported, is it just hung on a stainless wire and the water comes up through a riser (MDPE?).

 

Any help pro's/ cons appreciated. 

 

 

 

 

[Thedreamer]

What about rainwater harvesting, storage?

[SuperJohnG]

6 minutes ago, Thedreamer said:

What about rainwater harvesting, storage?

 

We are in the west coast of Scotland, which is typically very wet (thanks Gulf stream!) but that hasn't even been considered, it would need to be mains or borehole so we have a reliable supply. Also from what I have quickly read you are not allowed to use it as potable water.   

[Thedreamer]

4 minutes ago, SuperJohnG said:

 

We are in the west coast of Scotland, which is typically very wet (thanks Gulf stream!) but that hasn't even been considered, it would need to be mains or borehole so we have a reliable supply. Also from what I have quickly read you are not allowed to use it as potable water.   

 

I'm hearing it on the windows at the moment!

 

This house was in south of England, but with the rain we have here, surely there would be ample.

 

 

[SuperJohnG]

11 minutes ago, Thedreamer said:

 

I'm hearing it on the windows at the moment!

 

This house was in south of England, but with the rain we have here, surely there would be ample.

 

 

 

I like passivhaus and protecting the environment...but that's all one step too far for me. good video though! 

[Thedreamer]

4 minutes ago, SuperJohnG said:

 

I like passivhaus and protecting the environment...but that's all one step too far for me. good video though! 

 

I agree lot of work there.

 

The couple are building a new house just about twenty minutes away from me.

 

https://portreepassivhaus.uk/

[Thedreamer]

But anyway that's irrelevant to your borehole query. Hopefully a member can assist with that.

[jamieled]

@SuperJohnG, the two companies you've asked for quotes are the two that I most commonly hear about doing this work in Scotland.

 

I can't help much with the rest as while we are not on mains, we used a burn supply. However,  as a note of caution I will mention a nearby estate who opted for boreholes, paid similar amounts of money you stated above, and did not get what they were hoping for. 

 

[scottishjohn]

7 hours ago, Thedreamer said:

But anyway that's irrelevant to your borehole query. Hopefully a member can assist with that.

I do not consider talk of rainwater harvesting is off track when talking of bore holes and costs 

and remember there is NO cast iron warranty on how deep they need to go to find a suitable clean supply of water 

there are lots of other ways to make ranwater drinkaalbe part form a a slow sand  filter -

Even if you have a bore hoile you still need to make it safe to drink WIth at least UV and maybe other things depending on mineral content of the water

one close to me had to have extra gadgets to get rid oF a small amount of arsenic in the water .

there is no where in uk where there is not enough rainfall that harvestinbg would not work --If you use national average for water consumption of 150 litre per person per day and 2 people 

300x31 =9300litres

then a 4 week of NO rain would mean you would need a tank  of a minimum size of 12000litres ----to have an emergency reserve ..

If money is a consideration --then examine that option --my guess it would be well under 10k

even with bore hole you will have maintainence and pump replacements now and then .

and bore holes can dry up as well.

I am considering this as my plot would need a pumping station to get it up the 100mvertically and 500m horizontally to the house  ,so guessing at £15k  and 10year replacement of pumps @2k for parts.

I would get mains connection to my site at bottom of hill next to main road --then its up to me after that with pump station and elec supply from house down to it 

the attraction to going mains is no maintainence for me ,and if i want to build some holiday homes then i would need even more storage capacity if own supply from rainwater  --30000litre ?

 looked at borehole --and costs were estimated at £15k for 130m deep hole in granite --,but again no warranty .

they could find enough water at 40m --do you feel lucky?

I would certainly want  to use a contractor that has done boreholes in your area already 

I went off that cos my plot is right next to my quarry and that has water coming out of rock faces ,so i am suspecting that could effect how much water I would get from bore hole as some of underground water is already escaping into my quarry lake 

plus i know in summer the flow is much less into the quarry 

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by scottishjohn

[Declan52]

I would get a price for going along the route which takes you through the fields of the farmer that said no. Say for talks sake worst case scenario £5k.

Go back to the farmer and offer him  a starting bid of £5k and you have a bit of leeway to increase to a max of maybe £10k to get access to his land.

Your still going to be under the initial cost of a borehole with out factoring in any running and maintenance costs over the years.

As having read @Jeremy Harris blog you will have seen the steps he had to go to inorder to get his system working. 

Don't forget the borehole will be costed out per meter of depth they drill. So if they have to go deeper and deeper as the water flow isn't strong enough at 50/60/70m then the bill goes up and up and up. 

[ProDave]

I don't have experience of installing boreholes, but there are several near me and I have worked on a couple, including replacing the pump.  In the case of that one the pump did just hang a long way down the hole on a stainless steel wire alongside the riser pipe.

 

Don't discount rainwater.  It is the default water source in the bush in Australia, and they get a lot less rain than us. My BIL's house in Queensland collects water from the house roof and 2 barn roofs into a total of 4 different tanks, and was lovely clean drinking water without any treatment.  Their infrastructure is set up better than us in that during the dry season, it is easy to just buy in a tanker of water if your tank is getting low. I am not sure if Scottish Water could sell you a tanker of water if you were getting low?

 

Spring water can be more troublesome to get it wholesome, think dead sheep upstream? or even sheep urine.

[Ed Davies]

9 hours ago, SuperJohnG said:

Also from what I have quickly read you are not allowed to use it as potable water.   

 

Highland Environmental Health were OK with my rainwater harvesting plans once I assured them I wouldn't be preparing food for the public (e.g,, running a B&B).

 

 

[jamieled]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

I am not sure if Scottish Water could sell you a tanker of water if you were getting low?

Local authorities in Scotland have an obligation to provide water to private supplies in dry periods. In practice it's Scottish Water that provide the water.

[Ed Davies]

3 hours ago, ProDave said:

I am not sure if Scottish Water could sell you a tanker of water if you were getting low?

 

Couple of Scottish Water chaps turned up on my site one day asking if I was connected yet as they were looking for a leak. Nope and not planning to be. Had a chat about my rainwater harvesting plans in which I mentioned the back-up possibility of phoning them up for a couple of cubes of water in a dry spell which they seemed to think was a reasonable plan.

 

Also, other companies might do it. E.g., the company which I usually get heating oil from is said to do a water delivery service for things like construction projects away from mains water.

[Onoff]

3 hours ago, ProDave said:

Don't discount rainwater.  It is the default water source in the bush in Australia

 

Rural NZ too.

[Thedreamer]

4 hours ago, scottishjohn said:

I do not consider talk of rainwater harvesting is off track when talking of bore holes and costs 

and remember there is NO cast iron warranty on how deep they need to go to find a suitable clean supply of water 

there are lots of other ways to make ranwater drinkaalbe part form a a slow sand  filter -

Even if you have a bore hoile you still need to make it safe to drink WIth at least UV and maybe other things depending on mineral content of the water

one close to me had to have extra gadgets to get rid oF a small amount of arsenic in the water .

there is no where in uk where there is not enough rainfall that harvestinbg would not work --If you use national average for water consumption of 150 litre per person per day and 2 people 

300x31 =9300litres

then a 4 week of NO rain would mean you would need a tank  of a minimum size of 12000litres ----to have an emergency reserve ..

If money is a consideration --then examine that option --my guess it would be well under 10k

even with bore hole you will have maintainence and pump replacements now and then .

and bore holes can dry up as well.

I am considering this as my plot would need a pumping station to get it up the 100mvertically and 500m horizontally to the house  ,so guessing at £15k  and 10year replacement of pumps @2k for parts.

I would get mains connection to my site at bottom of hill next to main road --then its up to me after that with pump station and elec supply from house down to it 

the attraction to going mains is no maintainence for me ,and if i want to build some holiday homes then i would need even more storage capacity if own supply from rainwater  --30000litre ?

 looked at borehole --and costs were estimated at £15k for 130m deep hole in granite --,but again no warranty .

they could find enough water at 40m --do you feel lucky?

I would certainly want  to use a contractor that has done boreholes in your area already 

I went off that cos my plot is right next to my quarry and that has water coming out of rock faces ,so i am suspecting that could effect how much water I would get from bore hole as some of underground water is already escaping into my quarry lake 

plus i know in summer the flow is much less into the quarry 

 

 

My point was more to do with the passive house projects. I suggested rainwater harvesting earlier in the thread.

[SuperJohnG]

14 hours ago, ProDave said:

I don't have experience of installing boreholes, but there are several near me and I have worked on a couple, including replacing the pump.  In the case of that one the pump did just hang a long way down the hole on a stainless steel wire alongside the riser pipe.

 

 

@ProDave thanks I thought it was this. 

 

16 hours ago, jamieled said:

@SuperJohnG, the two companies you've asked for quotes are the two that I most commonly hear about doing this work in Scotland.

 

I can't help much with the rest as while we are not on mains, we used a burn supply. However,  as a note of caution I will mention a nearby estate who opted for boreholes, paid similar amounts of money you stated above, and did not get what they were hoping for. 

 

thanks @jamieled . Surprised as someone using a burn supply..I do have aburn running through mys site but never considered it. Would have thought that woudl have been major hassle in terms of purifying it?

I only seems to hear stories of boreholes going wrong - but you never hear good stories. was it a large estate. generally it seems to be a yield issue which is much less risky for a single family home. 

 

 

Thanks - I am surprised to see that there is no input from anyone that has a borehole? Is it just a complete lack of people doing it? 

 

@Jeremy Harris (now I've figured out your new tag) did you consider doing the topside yourself?

 

[Gone West]

8 hours ago, SuperJohnG said:

I am surprised to see that there is no input from anyone that has a borehole?

I have an accidental borehole, it was meant to be a deep bore soakaway, don't ask. We already had mains water on site so we only use it for watering the garden. It's 47m deep and I bought an IBO pump and suspended it on 40m of stainless wire and it pumps through 32mm hose to an adapter then garden hose. It delivers about the same sort of volume and pressure as the mains. The borehole cost £3000 in 2010.

[jamieled]

8 hours ago, SuperJohnG said:

Would have thought that woudl have been major hassle in terms of purifying it?

It's usually a lot more work treating surface water. We're doing it because even with the extra treatment it's a lot cheaper then putting in a borehole and I can do it myself. If in future we think a borehole might be needed we can re-use some of the filters.

 

It was quite a large estate, I believe part of the problem was the lining of the borehole.

Edited December 11, 2019 by jamieled
Additional info

[AndrewR]

I was going to post a new message, but saw this recent thread:

I own a small croft in Caithness. It has a "well" on the plans of the land and on site this is apparent by an isolated area of permanently wet ground. There is no evidence of a "bubbling spring" however.
I'd like to tap this water and make it accessible for domestic potable use, which will mean making good the surface access with a wellhead chamber of some sort and, I assume a small borehole with pipe and preferably hand pump.
I'd like to do this myself if possible. Can you advise me on how this water source can be tapped, traditionally (i.e. by DIY and at low cost)? All I am looking at is to have something like a hand pump above the well head which I can visit to gather water.
Thanks,

Andrew 

[jamieled]

I can't link to anything directly, but it's definitely DIY able. It will be tricky if.you need.to go down.to.any depth, but it sounds like that isn't necessary.

 

A screw auger or similar would allow you to create a hole. Sealing the well head can be simple - modify a manhole cover or something more basic - plenty of web diagrams. Preventing surface water ingress is key to minimise the treatment you need to do. Lining could use cheap perforated pipe.

 

There are a few hand pumps around that should do down to 8m or so.

 

 

[AndrewR]

Thanks. I'm on the look out for an old book that might explain it.

Andrew

[scottishjohn]

I have been studing some old OS maps for my build 

i have found that things marked as wells are not always wells  ,maybe just "issues"

for a water suppy  if you have the option of a mains supply --take it 

drilling bore holes and then all the treatment the water might need to be drinkable --its not just UV -One man here has had to put expensive chemical filters to get rid of arsenic in the water 

I am pretty brave at tackiling jobs i have not done before --but a well 

If ground is easy to dig then it will need stone liner so it does not collapse in 

If it rock then you going to have to drill

and ideally you want water that is not just coming from top soil ,but water that has taken time to filter down through the layers ,which help clean out the biologicals 

[Jeremy Harris]

11 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

I have been studing some old OS maps for my build 

i have found that things marked as wells are not always wells  ,maybe just "issues"

for a water suppy  if you have the option of a mains supply --take it 

drilling bore holes and then all the treatment the water might need to be drinkable --its not just UV -One man here has had to put expensive chemical filters to get rid of arsenic in the water 

I am pretty brave at tackiling jobs i have not done before --but a well 

If ground is easy to dig then it will need stone liner so it does not collapse in 

If it rock then you going to have to drill

and ideally you want water that is not just coming from top soil ,but water that has taken time to filter down through the layers ,which help clean out the biologicals 

 

 

The BGS website is the most reliable way to find wells/boreholes: http://mapapps.bgs.ac.uk/geologyofbritain/home.html

 

Select the "Borehole Scans" option in the top left and then zoom right in on the map and any that are recorded will show as dots.  Clicking on them will give whatever data the BGS holds.

 

[SteamyTea]

@Jeremy Harris Is the high number of shallow wells/boreholes (0 - 10m) what farmers use for irrigation, rather than for filling toughs?