Master bathroom gutted - suggestions needed

[H F]

I have completed gutting our master bathroom and built our stud wall in a new recessed area for our shower.

 

i have some initial questions and will no doubt have more.

I removed the old ply that the tiles were stuck to. 
 

It was laid on pats (see photo) that were made from grout. Is that normal?

 

What’s the advised method to lay even ply on the existing uneven floor?

 

There’s also black stuff in one area that look like mould. Should I treat this somehow?

 

[Conor]

We used hardiboard (cement fibre board) on top of the old floor boards before tiling. Saves having to prime / seal timber floor. They just screw down.

[Tennentslager]

Ooft goodness me... I thought that was a picture of the mould and thought by f¥ck that’s serious!

mega big mushrooms under your floor

 

[PeterW]

So that’s a whole new one on me ..... board on tile adhesive ..??!

 

get that lot up, use a floor scraper and then mop over it with a 20% cheap bleach solution and let it dry. 
 

Then glue and  screw down 9mm ply as a minimum and use latex based self leveling compound to finish it off. 

[nod]

1 hour ago, Home Farm said:

I have completed gutting our master bathroom and built our stud wall in a new recessed area for our shower.

 

i have some initial questions and will no doubt have more.

I removed the old ply that the tiles were stuck to. 
 

It was laid on pats (see photo) that were made from grout. Is that normal?

 

What’s the advised method to lay even ply on the existing uneven floor?

 

There’s also black stuff in one area that look like mould. Should I treat this somehow?

 

Scrape all the floor spotless 

Bleach everything 

Your better using a matting Ditra or dura Covering floors with plywood is a bit outdated 

Stick the matting down with Ardex AF200 

No need for any screws or nails No chance of nailing any pipes 

[H F]

32 minutes ago, PeterW said:

So that’s a whole new one on me ..... board on tile adhesive ..??!

 

get that lot up, use a floor scraper and then mop over it with a 20% cheap bleach solution and let it dry. 
 

Then glue and  screw down 9mm ply as a minimum and use latex based self leveling compound to finish it off. 

Thanks. I’ll do that. When the ply is on, we are going to out down an underlay and out a click system on top that. That should make it feel good and solid.

[H F]

37 minutes ago, Tennentslager said:

Ooft goodness me... I thought that was a picture of the mould and thought by f¥ck that’s serious!

mega big mushrooms under your floor

 

That was genuinely funny. LOL!

[H F]

1 hour ago, Conor said:

We used hardiboard (cement fibre board) on top of the old floor boards before tiling. Saves having to prime / seal timber floor. They just screw down.

So you use that instead of ply?

[Temp]

Never used leveling compound myself so can anyone else comment on the issue of surface laitance? Or is that only liquid screed?

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Temp

[Onoff]

6 hours ago, Temp said:

Never used leveling compound myself so can anyone else comment on the issue of surface laitance? Or is that only liquid screed?

 

 

Only experienced it with concrete floors I've laid. I always wire brush and hoover them before applying floor paint etc.

 

Only ever used slc once and that was a disaster tbh. Went level but all crazed soon thereafter. First house kitchen that was, only about 8'x6'. From memory I think I might have painted the floor with a liquid dpm then tried putting the slc over that.

 

Any concrete I lay now is mm perfect so no worries! ?

[Ferdinand]

Hopefully these are useful questions.

 

Is that screed that we are looking that was under the ply? What is under the screed? Is it sound? What about the joists? Is it a slab or suspended floor underneath - looks suspended? (Relevant perhaps in considering what happens to the water when a water leak floods it).

 

If it is suspended and downstairs does it need insulating underneath ? (or on top) ! How is it insulated in the floor is a good question if downstairs, how is it sound insulated in the floor if upstairs.

 

Has it got ufh? Assuming not but let's be explicit.

 

(In my upstairs bathroom (not posted yet and not directly relevant) I had to go all the way back basically to the lounge ceiling as the subfloor was not well sound insulated and had been made of butted-up chipboard by the previous self-renovator.)

 

What will you do if it floods? I might argue for a small step up at the doorway - say a non-perceptible few mm, such that the first chunk of water stays in the bathroom rather than the rest of the house, but that then requires some form of tanking. But that then says to make the floor in some way waterproof - but if it is on the Gnd Flr you will need to make it airtight anyway.

 

Click-Fit is a good decision to avoid floor-flexing-tile-cracking problems,  but you need to consider it as a bathroom floor.

 

For Click Fit the only one that I ever use is QuickStep (which I did use for a bathroom in 2017), as that is the only one that I have seen to be practically take-uppable and put-downable again, with their own underlay (which is cheap and has adhesive strips at the joints). I would seriously consider the click-fit vinyl as it is a warm finish - and also relatively thin if that matters. I would buy enough do to what repairs I may consider necessary over say a decade - in my case this is usually 20-30% and enough that I can do a loo or cupboard floor and still have a bit over if it turns out to be perfect).
 

Just my thoughts to help stew the brew.

 

Best of luck

 

Ferdinand

 

 

 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Thedreamer]

2 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

Hopefully these are useful questions.

 

Is that screed that we are looking that was under the ply? What is under the screed? Is it sound? What about the joists? Is it a slab or suspended floor underneath - looks suspended? (Relevant perhaps in considering what happens to the water when a water leak floods it).

 

If it is suspended and downstairs does it need insulating underneath ? (or on top) ! How is it insulated in the floor is a good question if downstairs, how is it sound insulated in the floor if upstairs.

 

Has it got ufh? Assuming not but let's be explicit.

 

(In my upstairs bathroom (not posted yet and not directly relevant) I had to go all the way back basically to the lounge ceiling as the subfloor was not well sound insulated and had been made of butted-up chipboard by the previous self-renovator.)

 

What will you do if it floods? I might argue for a small step up at the doorway - say a non-perceptible few mm, such that the first chunk of water stays in the bathroom rather than the rest of the house, but that then requires some form of tanking. But that then says to make the floor in some way waterproof - but if it is on the Gnd Flr you will need to make it airtight anyway.

 

Click-Fit is a good decision to avoid floor-flexing-tile-cracking problems,  but you need to consider it as a bathroom floor.

 

For Click Fit the only one that I ever use is QuickStep (which I did use for a bathroom in 2017), as that is the only one that I have seen to be practically take-uppable and put-downable again, with their own underlay (which is cheap and has adhesive strips at the joints). I would seriously consider the click-fit vinyl as it is a warm finish - and also relatively thin if that matters. I would buy enough do to what repairs I may consider necessary over say a decade - in my case this is usually 20-30% and enough that I can do a loo or cupboard floor and still have a bit over if it turns out to be perfect).
 

Just my thoughts to help stew the brew.

 

Best of luck

 

Ferdinand

 

 

 

 

We using the quickstep vinyl from Howdens, everywhere on the ground floor.

 

How has it performed in the bathroom?

 

It felt like a good option to us as looks like engineered oak, durable, water resistant and should be warm on the foot.

 

Cost wise it was upgrade on the engineered oak, but we got some economic scales on material/labour and it should provide a continuous look throughout the house.

 

I note your point about the extra packs. 

[Ferdinand]

35 minutes ago, Thedreamer said:

We using the quickstep vinyl from Howdens, everywhere on the ground floor.

 

How has it performed in the bathroom?

 

No complaints so far.

 

 

[H F]

Thanks F. Been a busy day - will reply to your questions and comments when I get a moment. 

[H F]

21 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

Is that screed that we are looking that was under the ply? What is under the screed? Is it sound? What about the joists? Is it a slab or suspended floor underneath - looks suspended? (Relevant perhaps in considering what happens to the water when a water leak floods it).

I’m not sure what screed looks like. This stuff was very light and crumbly. It didn’t even adhere to the floor. 
 

Under the screed is chipboard (I think) that sits on joists. This bathroom is upstairs btw and above our hallway.

 

The floor is uneven with a slope but is solid underfoot. The plan was to put 22mm ply on top of this and level it. This would be our base for the click system flooring

 

21 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

but you need to consider it as a bathroom floor.

.

What do you mean by this? Do you mean we need to waterproof the floor because it’s a bathroom? 
 

We have another click system flooring brand, for bathrooms, which looks and feels good. Will post this later.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Home Farm

[H F]

 

 

[Ferdinand]

8 hours ago, Home Farm said:

What do you mean by this? Do you mean we need to waterproof the floor because it’s a bathroom? 

 

I mean that normal laminate will curl up like brown paper if it floods. So you need a moisture resistant one.

 

I had been planning vinyl or vinyl tile for my bathroom to be extra safe, but got 20 packs of Quick-Step flooring at an excellent discount from B&Q so used that for the bathroom. I was pointing out that it is worth thinking about what happens in the more humid environment, and also where a flood will go.

 

I have a personal penchant for overengineering, though.

 

One of my thumbrules is that I like a waterproof floor in the room with the washing machine to be able to contain a washing machine full of water. Probably meaningless, but makes me feel comfortable and is probably a useful habit of thought.

Ferdinand

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Ferdinand

[H F]

Thanks Ferdinand.

 

Since this is our first eve bathroom, I think we will be a bit OTT on the waterproofing. The vinyl tiles are 100% water proof and made for bathrooms so we should ok on that front. 
 

Your advice is sound. We’ve experienced minor water leaks, and that was bad enough, so we will go the extra distance to make it as water tight was possible. 

[Onoff]

6 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

One of my thumbrules is that I like a waterproof floor in the room with the washing machine

 

Bugger! My kitchen is 1 step HIGHER than the next room. Something else I think about / worry over.

[Ferdinand]

1 hour ago, Home Farm said:

Thanks Ferdinand.

 

Since this is our first eve bathroom, I think we will be a bit OTT on the waterproofing. The vinyl tiles are 100% water proof and made for bathrooms so we should ok on that front. 
 

Your advice is sound. We’ve experienced minor water leaks, and that was bad enough, so we will go the extra distance to make it as water tight was possible. 

 

If you want a longish read with lots of great ideas on robust design and fitout, try this old thread of mine on Landlordzone from 2011.

 

"The Tenantproof House"

 

About 200 posts but quite dense content, but forthright thoughts from lots of LLs. My favourite I think from this thread was someone who dealt with the Student Wear and Tear challenge by procuring a secondhand commercial kitchen from a restaurant made entirely of stainless steel. Obvs students would love that.

 

https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/energy-efficiency-epc-design-repair-improve/35896-the-tenantproof-house

 

F

Edited November 22, 2019 by Ferdinand

[H F]

This is the LVT click system we’re going to opt for: https://www.ukflooringdirect.co.uk/vinyl-flooring-spectra-light-grey-cement-tile-luxury-click

 

the sample we got was good quality.

 

The thing is, they’re wanting to charge us £75 for LVT underlay - that’s for a 15m2 role, which is way too much for us. 
 

I assume I can buy underlay from another brand to use under this LVT. Is that correct?

Edited November 28, 2019 by Home Farm

[Onoff]

On 22/11/2019 at 16:48, Ferdinand said:

 

If you want a longish read with lots of great ideas on robust design and fitout, try this old thread of mine on Landlordzone from 2011.

 

"The Tenantproof House"

 

About 200 posts but quite dense content, but forthright thoughts from lots of LLs. My favourite I think from this thread was someone who dealt with the Student Wear and Tear challenge by procuring a secondhand commercial kitchen from a restaurant made entirely of stainless steel. Obvs students would love that.

 

https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/energy-efficiency-epc-design-repair-improve/35896-the-tenantproof-house

 

F

 

Amazed at what they stopped out of my sons uni house deposit. It was a sh!t hole to start with. Things like "stain" - X pounds to redecorate. The garden was cat sh!t covered dirt when they moved in and they let a few weeds grow. That became "re landscape".

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

Amazed at what they stopped out of my sons uni house deposit. It was a sh!t hole to start with. Things like "stain" - X pounds to redecorate. The garden was cat sh!t covered dirt when they moved in and they let a few weeds grow. That became "re landscape".

Buy him a camper van.

[Gone West]

1 hour ago, Home Farm said:

The thing is, they’re wanting to charge us £75 for LVT underlay - that’s for a 15m2 role, which is way too much for us.

Yes it does seem to be rip off for 1mm thick foam sheeting but underlays always seem overpriced to me. I doubt you could save more than £15 to £20 at the most.

[H F]

16 minutes ago, PeterStarck said:

Yes it does seem to be rip off for 1mm thick foam sheeting but underlays always seem overpriced to me. I doubt you could save more than £15 to £20 at the most.

 
Agreed. I’m saving £20 albeit for 10m2... which is good because it’s less stuff to landfill.