daiking Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Is anyone familiar with this phenomenon and how to stop it? When someone walks on the first floor there are loud snapping/cracking noises downstairs. I have high confidence it is not the floor creaking as I filled that up in with hundreds of screws and sounds vey different and is heard mainly downstairs not upstairs The problem is described here: http://forum.snagging.org/snagging-requests-for-help/2332-creaking-ceilings-getting-nowhere-nhbc.html It alludes to something to do with the way the joists are supported but a poster remains very cryptic about the solution. the floor joists are hung from hangers off a wall plate on one side and sit in masonry pockets at the other end. It is the joist hanger end that seems to generate the noise. I think the joist hangers are mounted to a wall plate that is bolted into a steel beam web. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 I would have said slightly warped joists, boards not all sitting tight to the joist and nails creaking as the boards flex. I would have said cure would be remove nails and replace with screws pulling the boards tight to the joists. But you said you have put lots of screws in so kind of blows that theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stones Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Are there any pipes clipped / attached to the floor joists? I've had experience in the past of waste pipes being strapped too tightly onto a joist - every time you walked over it the pipe would be trying to flex against the strap but would only move with a bang. When loosened the pipe could move fluidly with the joist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daiking Posted October 20, 2016 Author Share Posted October 20, 2016 8 minutes ago, ProDave said: I would have said slightly warped joists, boards not all sitting tight to the joist and nails creaking as the boards flex. I would have said cure would be remove nails and replace with screws pulling the boards tight to the joists. But you said you have put lots of screws in so kind of blows that theory. I put 5 screws across every joist that each board sat on before I laid the final flooring which took most of the squeaks out but this is something else. 6 minutes ago, Stones said: Are there any pipes clipped / attached to the floor joists? I've had experience in the past of waste pipes being strapped too tightly onto a joist - every time you walked over it the pipe would be trying to flex against the strap but would only move with a bang. When loosened the pipe could move fluidly with the joist. There are but not where the sound seems to come from. I'll check them out though. there is a section of ceiling that bridges between old and new and it sis clear from looking at it from the floor above that a section of it is not attached to the joists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 What centres are the joists at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daiking Posted October 20, 2016 Author Share Posted October 20, 2016 28 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: What centres are the joists at? 400mm, 18mm chipboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) Spax flooring screws are a Godsend especially if the boards were fitted with angular ring nails. "Ordinary" screws aren't a patch on the Spax ones. Edited October 20, 2016 by Onoff 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Construction Channel Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 might be a long shot but are your internal walls plasterboard or rendered and skimmed? If rendered it could (once again "long shot") be the plasterboard on the ceiling slipping past the conduits on the walls...... how loud is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daiking Posted October 20, 2016 Author Share Posted October 20, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Construction Channel said: might be a long shot but are your internal walls plasterboard or rendered and skimmed? If rendered it could (once again "long shot") be the plasterboard on the ceiling slipping past the conduits on the walls...... how loud is it? Conduit? Dry lined. I need to really try to isolate where the sound comes from. I've started taking bits out of the ceiling anyway so why stop now... How loud? Well its not like a .22 rifle going off but more like loud knees or ankles cracking. Its a sharp defined sound not like a creak or squeak Edited October 20, 2016 by daiking 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Construction Channel Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 7 minutes ago, daiking said: I need to really try to isolate where the sound comes from. I've started taking bits out of the ceiling anyway so why stop now... How loud? Well its not like a .22 rifle going off but more like loud knees or ankles cracking. Its a sharp defined sound not like a creak or squeak I like your terminology, but i think isolating the sound is probably the next step. try and find the point in the floor that makes it make that sound and then look for what could be connected to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Badly fitted noggins maybe? A few of our downstairs traditional floorboards fitted with clout nails are "creaky". The upstairs 18mm T&G chipboard was the one where it would "crack" I'm sure down to the angular rings letting go over time. Using Spax on both areas helps greatly. One floor I did in 22mm T&G chipboard Spax screwed on to 400mm ctr joists is nigh on as solid as a concrete floor with zero noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daiking Posted October 20, 2016 Author Share Posted October 20, 2016 They weren't Spax but they were Reisser Cutters from T/Station Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 8 minutes ago, daiking said: They weren't Spax but they were Reisser Cutters from T/Station Never, ever, in a million years will they be as good as these: Self drills the hole thru the floorboard, the plain shank then clears the hole in the floorboard - so no rubbing of the board up the shank of the screw. The top threads then bite into the board pulling it down and it self countersinks. They do what they say on the tin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 I used them on mine and they are great. Mine came with a blue wax on them as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 7 hours ago, Onoff said: Never, ever, in a million years will they be as good as these: Self drills the hole thru the floorboard, the plain shank then clears the hole in the floorboard - so no rubbing of the board up the shank of the screw. The top threads then bite into the board pulling it down and it self countersinks. They do what they say on the tin. I don't see how the top thread works? If it's the same thread pitch as the main thread , then if the board is still clear of the (warped) joist when it gets to the top thread, they will screw in together and the gap won't close (no different to a continuous thread) No top thread and the bottom thread will continue to pull in and pull the board tight down to the joist. Unless there is something clever like the top thread is a different picth to the main thread to make it pull in, but it doesn't look like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 I believe Spax sprinkle them with fairy dust to imbue their screws with magical powers. All I know, as others here attest to is that they work. http://www.spax.com/uk/craftsmen/screw-finder/products/specials/spax-specials/spax-flooring-screw I think that the top thread bites into the board and stops it going down as you tread on it so no sliding up and down the shank even if you do get a slight gap between board and joist through shrinkage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfb Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 next time i lay some flooring down I will glue them on as well as screw to help avoid any creaking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daiking Posted October 21, 2016 Author Share Posted October 21, 2016 Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Is anyone familiar with the cracking noise? It's been a no so far... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Our floorboards "creak" and I am convinces that's because they are nailed with smooth thank nails and they have pulled as the boards flex. the "creak" could perhaps be described as a "crack" noise instead. I haven't tried fixing it as I can't be bothered to completely empty the rooms to lift the carpets. If I do ever fix it, it will be remove each nail and replace with a decent screw in exactly the same place (we have UFH so would not want to risk screws in new places) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) Our upstairs 18mm T&G is all glued and originally put down with angular ring nails which are serrated and meant to "grip". It's a noisy floor. I half wondered if anyone ever puts a strip of dampening "rubber" atop the joists to dampen the effect down? A bit like the underlay under laminate flooring. Edited October 21, 2016 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 7 hours ago, daiking said: Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Is anyone familiar with the cracking noise? It's been a no so far... So it's a similar sound to plastic guttering expanding in the sun is it? Are the joists nailed or screwed to the hangers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 Not one nail used on my new bathroom joists. Leaping about up top and not a peep. Used a combination of 6x100 Goldscrews and those timber screws with the 8mm socket driver head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 You playing jenga on your window cill with the way all that stuff is stacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daiking Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 On 21/10/2016 at 16:08, PeterStarck said: So it's a similar sound to plastic guttering expanding in the sun is it? Are the joists nailed or screwed to the hangers? Not sure but probably nailed on the one side that is on hangers. this is being difficult to track down the source as I cannot be upstairs and downstairs at once and my assistant is incapable of following simple instructions and acts though English is here fifth language. I may have to conscript to 9 y.o. boy to help instead. The noise is an issue downstairs not in the room itself so I am now wondering if a ground floor stud wall is suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_s Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 This might not be helpful but we get a lot of noise in our big spare bedroom. When the temperature changes you can hear various noises from the floor and also walking along one side of the bedroom. We will be doing some serious renovations to the bedrooms next year so will know more then but I am sure it's to do with the floor boards being nailed down and the base plate of the stud wall and lots of movement either side of the stud wall and potentially underneath it where I expect it's nailed down but not solid so more movement can happen. So perhaps you are on the right track with regards to the ground floor stud wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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