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Plaster in lighting

Pocster

By Pocster
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Pocster Advanced Member

Pocster

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Anyone installed anything like this ?

 

https://www.nationallighting.co.uk/indoor-lighting/downlights/trimless-downlights/horizon-dimmable-gu10-trimless-round-downlight?vat=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-92bubfL5QIVA7DtCh3argo4EAQYByABEgIE0_D_BwE

 

I like the idea as the hole in created first not after ceiling skimmed and painted . Are plasters happy with this or do they curse at skimming around a hole ?? 

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nod Advanced Member

nod

Posted
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1 hour ago, pocster said:

Anyone installed anything like this ?

 

https://www.nationallighting.co.uk/indoor-lighting/downlights/trimless-downlights/horizon-dimmable-gu10-trimless-round-downlight?vat=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-92bubfL5QIVA7DtCh3argo4EAQYByABEgIE0_D_BwE

 

I like the idea as the hole in created first not after ceiling skimmed and painted . Are plasters happy with this or do they curse at skimming around a hole ?? 

Yep lots 

They  look really cool

The Electrian normally attaches a string to the wires 

Then tapes it to the internal 

No chance of getting your hand in afterwards 

The ones I’ve plastered had a magnetic bulb holder 

 

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ToughButterCup Advanced Member

ToughButterCup

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Thanks @pocster, just what I was looking for.? Ordered a couple for Official Wifely Inspection And Approval.

 

@nod -  what  difference does the shape of the  seating  for the bulb-holder (backbox?) make - I mean why would you choose one and not the other?

Maybe the rectangular one allows you to set the bulb at a shallower angle : more able to set a cross rather than simple down-light?

Anyway, thanks @pocster . You must be a very nice man to care what your plasterer thinks. A very very nice man. 

 

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Onoff Advanced Member

Onoff

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I drilled / cut all my ceiling holes before I plastered. Certainly slows things up imo. Had to be v.careful the plaster didn't thicken up around the hole edges and "slump" out.  Somehow I got away with it.

Edited by Onoff
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ProDave Advanced Member

ProDave

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Sory but this looks like a solution searching for a problem to me.

 

Bad points:

Only works with a skimmed ceiling no good for tape and fill.

It needs a good plasterer to get a good finish around it.

It leaves an edge to be painted neatly and if done badly it will look bad.

You need to fix them to the plasterboard with screws by the looks of things.

 

I don't see an issue with traditional clip in downlights, or for a more modern slim look, clip in flat plate lights that usually have a wafer thin flange so fit pretty well flush.  Clip in lighting of any form lets you paint first then put the light in and you get a perfect finish (as long as the plasterer was good)

 

If you don't mind the extra work and skill needed then give them a try and I would be interested to see the results, but not for me.

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nod Advanced Member

nod

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38 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said:

Thanks @pocster, just what I was looking for.? Ordered a couple for Official Wifely Inspection And Approval.

 

@nod -  what  difference does the shape of the  seating  for the bulb-holder (backbox?) make - I mean why would you choose one and not the other?

Maybe the rectangular one allows you to set the bulb at a shallower angle : more able to set a cross rather than simple down-light?

Anyway, thanks @pocster . You must be a very nice man to care what your plasterer thinks. A very very nice man. 

 

No difference Ian

We have done both 

We've just one 20000 sq foot home in the lake district 

He had them ever were 

Including square ones on the walls 

When we built the cielings and walls We just needed a full wiring layout so as to put a pattress in for every one  

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Pocster Advanced Member

Pocster

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1 hour ago, AnonymousBosch said:

Thanks @pocster, just what I was looking for.? Ordered a couple for Official Wifely Inspection And Approval.

 

@nod -  what  difference does the shape of the  seating  for the bulb-holder (backbox?) make - I mean why would you choose one and not the other?

Maybe the rectangular one allows you to set the bulb at a shallower angle : more able to set a cross rather than simple down-light?

Anyway, thanks @pocster . You must be a very nice man to care what your plasterer thinks. A very very nice man. 

 

Hey !

 

Let me know how you get on with them .

It wasn’t care for my plaster so much but if I’ve got 30 recessed lights in a room I don’t want him moaning or the quality of skimming round each light is poor . Reluctant to skim/paint then drill my light holes - prefer to get it wrong earlier in the mission !

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Barney12 Advanced Member

Barney12

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1 hour ago, Onoff said:

I drilled / cut all my ceiling holes before I plastered. Certainly slows things up imo. Had to be v.careful the plaster didn't thicken up around the hole edges and "slump" out.  Somehow I got away with it.

 

This is how I’ve done it on my last few houses:

 

1. Decide on light positions and create a measured plan (distances from wall etc).

2. First fix your electrics with a decent loop of cable.

3. Board and skim/tape as normal.

4. Paint (at least down to the final coat)

5. Cut out and pull loop of cable down and wire up.

 

And for the clever bit........

 

1. Start with an empty room.

2. Mark your lighting positions out on the floor. 

3. Use a vertical line (plumb) laser to show where to run your cables to.

4. Use the same points on the floor to cut out your holes.

 

Make sure you mark the floor well (use a small screw if it’s timber) or drill a very shallow hole if it’s concrete.

Both assume it’s not your finished floor :) 

 

Plastering will be cheaper and cleaner. Plasterers will love you for not having to navigate holes and cable. 

 

 

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Jeremy Harris Advanced Member

Jeremy Harris

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2 minutes ago, Barney12 said:

Plastering will be cheaper and cleaner. Plasterers will love you for not having to navigate holes and cable. 

 

 

 

Had this discussion with our plasterers.  I left all the cables looped up in the ceiling void (SELV DC, so no Part P concerns...) and had a plan showing the exact centres of each light.  The plasterers were adamant that they very much preferred there to be no holes at all in the ceiling when they skimmed it. 

 

Worked OK, only thing I found that needed care was selecting a decent hole saw for the cutouts.  The first one I tried chipped the plaster a bit.  I switched to one with very much less set in the teeth and that was a great deal better.

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Pocster Advanced Member

Pocster

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24 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

 

Had this discussion with our plasterers.  I left all the cables looped up in the ceiling void (SELV DC, so no Part P concerns...) and had a plan showing the exact centres of each light.  The plasterers were adamant that they very much preferred there to be no holes at all in the ceiling when they skimmed it. 

 

Worked OK, only thing I found that needed care was selecting a decent hole saw for the cutouts.  The first one I tried chipped the plaster a bit.  I switched to one with very much less set in the teeth and that was a great deal better.

I get the plan and it is good but 

 

I worry when I cut the lighting hole after plaster/paint I’m bound to Nick a cable .


What is the issue of plastering upto a hole ? Is it the plasterer likes/needs an edge ? Or perhaps it’s just the actual skim around a circular opening ??

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Jeremy Harris Advanced Member

Jeremy Harris

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5 minutes ago, pocster said:

I get the plan and it is good but 

 

I worry when I cut the lighting hole after plaster/paint I’m bound to Nick a cable .


What is the issue of plastering upto a hole ? Is it the plasterer likes/needs an edge ? Or perhaps it’s just the actual skim around a circular opening ??

 

 

Just tuck the cables up out of the way.  If the cables are doubled up on themselves and folded up they will usually stay well away from any hole saw.  Our joists were 225mm deep, IIRC, and the hole saw's only about 50mm deep, if that, so there's plenty of space to tuck the cables well out of the way usually.

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Pocster Advanced Member

Pocster

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1 minute ago, JSHarris said:

 

 

Just tuck the cables up out of the way.  If the cables are doubled up on themselves and folded up they will usually stay well away from any hole saw.  Our joists were 225mm deep, IIRC, and the hole saw's only about 50mm deep, if that, so there's plenty of space to tuck the cables well out of the way usually.

I’m sure you are right - it’s just Sod’s law and all that . But using the floor to effectively mark the ceiling is a neat tip !

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Barney12 Advanced Member

Barney12

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1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

The first one I tried chipped the plaster a bit.  I switched to one with very much less set in the teeth and that was a great deal better.

 

That is a good point. Whatever you do don’t use one of those adjustable hole cutters, it will end in tears. I swear by the Bosch Progressor hole saws. Nice clean cut every time. 

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Barney12 Advanced Member

Barney12

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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

 

Just tuck the cables up out of the way.  If the cables are doubled up on themselves and folded up they will usually stay well away from any hole saw.  Our joists were 225mm deep, IIRC, and the hole saw's only about 50mm deep, if that, so there's plenty of space to tuck the cables well out of the way usually.

 

Agreed. The trick is not to wrap/curl/tie too tightly as it’s then easier to pull down. Give yourself plenty to play with too, nothing worse than a stubby length of cable for second fix, a sparky mate of mine drives me crazy with his tiny stubs all to save a few pence on cable but make his second fix twice as hard ?

Edited by Barney12
Typo
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Jeremy Harris Advanced Member

Jeremy Harris

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On the subject of hole saws, albeit smaller ones, I recently bought a cheapo set from China, that seemed as if they might have carbide teeth.  As the set of 12 cost less than £13 delivered (from a UK warehouse) I took a punt.  I'm simply amazed at how good they are.  They seem to cut very cleanly, even when used on stainless.  They do seem to all have brazed on carbide teeth.  Goodness only knows how they can be manufactured, shipped and sold for this price.  Only go up to 50mm though, so not much use for downlights.

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Onoff Advanced Member

Onoff

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39 minutes ago, Barney12 said:

 

That is a good point. Whatever you do don’t use one of those adjustable hole cutters, it will end in tears. I swear by the Bosch Progressor hole saws. Nice clean cut every time. 

 

I switch between proper "Starretts" and the cheapo generic type like this:

 

 

90948.thumb.jpg.8df9b93e18cd51d06409695a5c426ee9.jpg

For bfo holes I had success with one of these AS LONG as you screw a bit of ply on  first to stop the centre drill wandering:

 

20180215_182245

 

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Barney12 Advanced Member

Barney12

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3 hours ago, Onoff said:

For bfo holes I had success with one of these AS LONG as you screw a bit of ply on  first to stop the centre drill wandering:

 

20180215_182245

 


don’t go near these if you’ve plastered though. They will chip the skim like crazy. Fine for bare board. 

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oldkettle Regular Member

oldkettle

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16 hours ago, Jeremy Harris said:

On the subject of hole saws, albeit smaller ones, I recently bought a cheapo set from China, that seemed as if they might have carbide teeth.  As the set of 12 cost less than £13 delivered (from a UK warehouse) I took a punt.  .

 

Do you have a link please? 

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joth Advanced Member

joth

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On 02/11/2019 at 12:57, Mr Punter said:

Also I like recessed fittings fire rated and OK in insulation without needing to add hoods

This was my thought too. Adding additional fire hoods on each seems quite the faff.

Are there any recommended plaster-over fittings with fire rating? Seems it should be possible.

Or, clip in fittings with a similar looking flush finish would also be ok.

 

I key advantage of this style is if you're doing anything other than white ceilings.

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joth Advanced Member

joth

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Well this one at Mr Resistor says it is plaster-in, trimless and fire-rated; worth a punt.

 

There's also these ones that promise a retrofit option for seamless/trimless appearance. I'm skeptical it's really as simple as this video makes out

https://tornado.co.uk/flush-trimless-plaster-wall-light-installation-guide-5

 

Edited by joth
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