Zoot's Extention- GO!

[zoothorn]

Just now, joe90 said:

What about asking your builder how HE is going to achieve building regs? Especially as this is by building notice, not full plans it’s the builder who should know? This is why I prefer full plans, no guessing half way through!.

 Its not a Q of asking how he's going to achieve BRegs in the floor Joe: unless I ask if we can go 50mm, he'll just put in default 100mm. He understands my H predicament alot more fully after today's comprehensive goings-over on this issue which he was very accomodating about in fact, didn't once get annoyed with my many Q's & obvious high stress on the subject (in both rooms' H now, now I know final figs of 2.1m lower & 2.2m upper), so is asking our BCO monday.

 

Once I showed him how little we actually have to play with (if all figs correctly done, & gel with actual figs seen once hole knocked thru..) his eyebrows were raising & alot of very careful sums ensued.. then he wasn't laughing no more. I was dead-on with my concerns. we may well have got very cm-lucky, or, the TFrame Co did a superb job of calculating.. but more likely somewhat of a fluke has happened with the 3cm to spare sweat-on figure.

 

Thanks. Top room walls all up, tops braced for wind over wknd. amazing how fast.

[zoothorn]

..

 

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by zoothorn
..

[Mr Punter]

I would want to see a vertical DPC where the frame abuts the existing wall.

[zoothorn]

5 hours ago, Mr Punter said:

I would want to see a vertical DPC where the frame abuts the existing wall.

 

Just a hunch, but maybe reason not is that its in-out all way up (very irregular stone surface/ many gaps). I'm sure he'd have done if defo needed if barely much cost & he's pretty good at detail. Foam > render I think?

 

[zoothorn]

I'm still back concerned about my two room H's. Not an undue concern. The thing is the plan, & what builder advised/ suggested due to the overall compact H nature, was to go for 'collared ceiling'. I understand this idea, bc my top existing bedroom (one to knock-thru from) has this in it. So both sides the ceiling angles in by 3ft etc.

 

I do not have the collared ceiling, its just not done: the cross-truss I was promised would be pushed up to form the collared ceiling just has not been made: they're just cross beams to rest upon the outside walls. As a result, instead of the 2.3m I specified, even with the added +350mm Iwas never informed of/ therefore ruled a mistake as I had no other logical explanation, the top room is 2.15m.

 

Its is not just the difference in H of 0.15m which is the end result. Bc the whole thing's 350mm lower, the step into new room is 400mm (2 steps) not 100mm: this isn't too much an issue itself.. but the lower top room ceiling H relative to the adjacent master bedroom IS.. & THIS is why I've been stressing.

 

In order to fit a door between, bc the new ceiling is not only 400mm down if it were 2.35m like the adjacent master bedroom.. its an additional 150mm because there is no collared ceiling. So if I measure 550mm from my existing ceiling in MBedroom.. Im at eye height in here.

 

 

 

 

[zoothorn]

Also I'm concerned about the weather: the dividing floor is chipboard with grey hard surface on the sections. These I noticed were carefully wrapped up against rain in the pile last few days. Now in, & rain is pooling on them (joined by some german adhesive stuff between) the water is pouring down thru gaps into lower room, & pooling on the floor. It'll be tuesday until roof trusses on. I'm concerned the floor will be ruined. If it is.. its either a wibbly floor.. or a screed ontop to level it (I can't.. no room H top play with even 1cm), or its not stucturally ok if chipboard's compromised.

[zoothorn]

Can anyone tell me what Roof Callers are.. its on my estimate from builder.

[zoothorn]

So, the reason we dug down 350mm.. was to squeeze the whole thing in going with a different plan to the design I did, & we discussed (IE it having a collared ceiling as the solution to get both the 2m + 2.35m rooms into).. because it was cheaper most likely, & just not tell me. Or, the truss cross beams -needed- to be at this position/ a collared ceiling not possible, due to structural rigidity. My guess its just cheaper/ cost.

 

On the quote/ estimate, it just says Timber Frame structure & Roof (plus this weird "Roof Callers" @ £105 down the list I can't find on google). No mention of collared ceiling of course. There was no way I was to know it wouldn't be made like so tho, after many definitive discussions on having it inherrant to the design, & my clearly putting it on the plan.

 

Just measuring up transferring the new top room ceiling H into existing bedroom.. its at brow height, 1.8m relative to this floor.

So we were talking about the knock thru having a step within it, which will be a solution, but not ideal. I didn't yet know at this juncture 12hrs ago the final new top room H, bc final packers etc not put on, nor the fact the trusses wouldn't give me the extra ~1ft H by way of collared design I still expected there to be.

 

I hope you can appreciate my stress was not irrelevant & OTT, & made worse by the reasons all the floor levels/ room H's different to plan was completely unknown.

[dpmiller]

you're still not in control of your project, are you?

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

Also I'm concerned about the weather: the dividing floor is chipboard with grey hard surface on the sections. These I noticed were carefully wrapped up against rain in the pile last few days. Now in, & rain is pooling on them (joined by some german adhesive stuff between) the water is pouring down thru gaps into lower room, & pooling on the floor. It'll be tuesday until roof trusses on. I'm concerned the floor will be ruined. If it is.. its either a wibbly floor.. or a screed ontop to level it (I can't.. no room H top play with even 1cm), or its not stucturally ok if chipboard's compromised.

its called Egger Protect board and it is waterproof for 60 days - the foaming glue joining the boards will make it like a pond ..!!

 

I’ve had a floor exposed for 3 months with no issues. 

[joe90]

1 hour ago, PeterW said:

its called Egger Protect board and it is waterproof for 60 days - the foaming glue joining the boards will make it like a pond ..!!

 

I’ve had a floor exposed for 3 months with no issues.

Yup, mine was out in very wet weather fir months and did not suffer at all. The grey surface is great as any plaster spilt on it comes up and leaves a very clean floor, don’t take it up till after decorating etc.

[zoothorn]

3 hours ago, PeterW said:

its called Egger Protect board and it is waterproof for 60 days - the foaming glue joining the boards will make it like a pond ..!!

 

I’ve had a floor exposed for 3 months with no issues. 

 

Hi Peter- ok thanks but I bet yours didn't have gaps between with water getting down/ a helluva lot is pouring into the btm room.. no prob on floor below.. but surely the edges are fallible if gaps?

[zoothorn]

2 hours ago, joe90 said:

Yup, mine was out in very wet weather fir months and did not suffer at all. The grey surface is great as any plaster spilt on it comes up and leaves a very clean floor, don’t take it up till after decorating etc.

 

Hi Joe- ok I'm reassured about the surface.. but the glue had only 2 hrs before the rain came in 4pm y'day, & its been pretty heavy since. Ive got the whole upstairs exposed. I just bought huge FO tarp & I'll mop up what collecting on the surface.. its just bad luck weatherwise, but the stress remains then until its weatherproofed.

[zoothorn]

Anyone know what "Roof Callers" might be on my estimate? callers close enough to collars for me to quiz if s'thing's been left off.

 

Thanks.

[joe90]

5 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

 

Hi Joe- ok I'm reassured about the surface.. but the glue had only 2 hrs before the rain came in 4pm y'day, & its been pretty heavy since. Ive got the whole upstairs exposed. I just bought huge FO tarp & I'll mop up what collecting on the surface.. its just bad luck weatherwise, but the stress remains then until its weatherproofed.

 

Zoot, don’t waste your time, the glue will go off underwater, mine sat like a big puddle fir months (I was not convinced at the time) but my builder was right, it suffered not a jot.

Edited November 2, 2019 by joe90

[Declan52]

Are you sure it isn't roof collars. To get your wanted height the builder must be planning to use roof collars to stop the roof spreading out as you maybe aren't going to have a traditional ceiling.

Will look like this.

 

[zoothorn]

43 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

Are you sure it isn't roof collars. To get your wanted height the builder must be planning to use roof collars to stop the roof spreading out as you maybe aren't going to have a traditional ceiling.

Will look like this.

 

 

Hi Declan. Callers.. well this doesn't seem to mean anything then. If you look at my plan, its got a collared roof. Thanks for the info/ clip, which coincides with (I hope you might agree) my plan in terms of the cross member up 1/3rd of the roof H.

 

What I have in front of me, are  a number of trusses.. which look more akin to the standard roof in the cross-section drawing in your clip (twds last 1min).. not collared types. But how to distinguish a collared truss? its just a Q of where the cross-member is. For eg, if its up 1ft from the standard roof, giving a wee bit of extra H in room only.. is this deemed a collared roof?? its not such an easy Q.. it could be argued.

 

As you can see in my cross section "fag packet" (still lingers..) drawing, Ive put the cross member @ 1/3rd point (or extremely close to this line). Its pretty accurate, in fact all the dims/ lines on this drawing are accurate. This correlates very well with the clip's cross sectional drawing.. I hope you might agree. If you do agree, then these trusses I've got here although on one side -do- have a small area of "angled ceiling" (as all collared roof's will have by their very nature/ the point of why design chosen) on the opposite side.. they do not: here the cross members meet the wall: there is -no- angled ceiling section on this side. Now whether this means it IS a collared roof or NOT I pass for opinion here from you guys.

 

I don't think its an excuse enough to not have these trusses as I think they should be, that its complicated bc one side of roof is shorter than t'other: Id think still a pretty simple roof compared to many my builder's done perhaps not being symmetrical too. I now think they are wrong.

 

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, zoothorn said:

 

Hi Peter- ok thanks but I bet yours didn't have gaps between with water getting down/ a helluva lot is pouring into the btm room.. no prob on floor below.. but surely the edges are fallible if gaps?

yes in some places and it will be fine. 
 

It’s designed to be left in all weathers for up to 65 days ... 

[jamieled]

@zoothorn due to my cockup I ended up with a load of non-waterproof chipboard exposed for weeks this summer. Water was pissing through the gaps, but it all dried up fine. You'll be fine for a few days for sure.

[zoothorn]

2 minutes ago, PeterW said:

yes in some places and it will be fine. 
 

It’s designed to be left in all weathers for up to 65 days ... 

 Okn good- that's helpful.

 

So the last big stress.. is whether I have collared roof trusses, or not. And whether if I only have drawing "evidence" rather than any 'collared' word written (tho it was fundamental in the design discussions I had with my builder) of a collared roof.. whether this is evidence enough for me to argue the roof is simply not the design on the plan.

 

If one side of a single cross member of the truss, is in contact with/ attatches to the wall below.. rather than both rafters attatching to the wall: can this still be considered a collared roof in some way?

 

If my cross member was in the position it should be, the mystery of the +350mm is accounted for. The whole design has been shifted down -relative- to this cross member line, the ceiling line.. bc its approx 300mm too far down (& also not a collared roof.. I would suggest).

 

 

[PeterW]

14 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

So the last big stress.. is whether I have collared roof trusses, or not. And whether if I only have drawing "evidence" rather than any 'collared' word written (tho it was fundamental in the design discussions I had with my builder) of a collared roof.. whether this is evidence enough for me to argue the roof is simply notthe design on the plan.

 

why is it your stress..??

 

builder needs to make the roof to meet building regs. It won’t if the roof isn’t designed and built correctly. BCO can pick that up. 
 

I would suggest it may be a typo on an invoice or plan - or even a colloquial term ..!! Ask on here how many different names there are for a noggin....

[zoothorn]

23 hours ago, newhome said:

You’ll be freezing to death if you don’t insulate it sufficiently, or paying unnecessary £££ heating it. 

 Hi newhome- low room a workshop, I will not have heating in it. Its more important I gain 2" H because of the whole ongoing H fiasco, than putting any insulation in the floor of lower room at all (if I am able to go without it, under B Regs for workshops of course).

[zoothorn]

Here are the trusses. Now my suspicion is, that The LHS cross beam in pic, goes directly on the window side wall ~(rhs on plan) at right angles. The wall here is higher than other side by approx 200mm.. the plan shows this offset.

 

The RHS with the notch cut, will have a short shallow slope/ angle of ceiling (like a collared ceiling inherrantly has, both sides) inside the room bang next to knock-thru door.

 

Your opinions please on whether my trusses are A) "collared"? & B) whether correct or not in your opinion, to my plan?

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2019 by zoothorn

[PeterW]

11 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Its more important I gain 2" H because of the whole ongoing H fiasco, than putting any insulation in the floor of lower room at all 

So now the structure is up - what is the exact height from slab to bottom of the floor joists above .??

[PeterW]

That is a collar truss with a king pin.