are there drains on my plot?

[Amateur bob]

i have a potential plot 0.6 acres which at the far corner has a well, im planning to build at the middle of the plot where ground level is highest im just wondering will there be drains below where im digging? how will i find out and what happens if i start digging and hit one? thanks

 

[Deleted duplicate post . AnonymousBosch]

[Jeremy Harris]

Just now, Amateur bob said:

i have a potential plot 0.6 acres which at the far corner has a well, im planning to build at the middle of the plot where ground level is highest im just wondering will there be drains below where im digging? how will i find out and what happens if i start digging and hit one? thanks

 
First off you need to contact the utilities to see if they have any records of stuff crossing the land.  They are far from being reliable, but if they show something as being there you can be reasonably sure it probably is.  Next, take a look at as many old records as you can to try and find out how the area has changed.  Often there can be clues as to where other houses and services are that indicate whether something may cross the land.  Be aware that the utility companies often have stuff crossing land that they know nothing about.   Worth looking closely at the well to see if there are any signs of a pump, pipework, etc.  Might give a clue as to whether there are any pipes etc, running from it and which direction they head in.

 

You may find other old pipes or drains when excavating, it's just one of the normal risks.  The key thing is being able to recognise what's found.  For example, we found a drain running down the side of our plot.  It was clear from looking at it that it was just an old land drain, made from loosely jointed sections of clay pipe.  Easy enough to just stick a bit of 100mm land drain in to replace it (it was badly broken up anyway).

 

Finally, you can check for underground cables using a CAT if you think there is a risk that there may be cables there.  You can usually get a feel for this by looking around.  For example, we had an unmarked, unknown, 3 phase power cable crossing our plot.  The give away was an overhead run of ABC going to a pole that had a run of 95mm² wavecon running down the side and disappearing into the ground.  That had to go somewhere, and ten minutes with a hired CAT showed exactly where it was. 

[Jeremy Harris]

There seem to be two identical threads on this, so I've merged them into one to avoid confusion.

[Oz07]

If you've purchased conveyancing has hopefully thrown up a few clues with utilities maps and wording of any covenants or easements. 

[Amateur bob]

3 hours ago, JSHarris said:

 
First off you need to contact the utilities to see if they have any records of stuff crossing the land.  They are far from being reliable, but if they show something as being there you can be reasonably sure it probably is.  Next, take a look at as many old records as you can to try and find out how the area has changed.  Often there can be clues as to where other houses and services are that indicate whether something may cross the land.  Be aware that the utility companies often have stuff crossing land that they know nothing about.   Worth looking closely at the well to see if there are any signs of a pump, pipework, etc.  Might give a clue as to whether there are any pipes etc, running from it and which direction they head in.

 

You may find other old pipes or drains when excavating, it's just one of the normal risks.  The key thing is being able to recognise what's found.  For example, we found a drain running down the side of our plot.  It was clear from looking at it that it was just an old land drain, made from loosely jointed sections of clay pipe.  Easy enough to just stick a bit of 100mm land drain in to replace it (it was badly broken up anyway).

 

Finally, you can check for underground cables using a CAT if you think there is a risk that there may be cables there.  You can usually get a feel for this by looking around.  For example, we had an unmarked, unknown, 3 phase power cable crossing our plot.  The give away was an overhead run of ABC going to a pole that had a run of 95mm² wavecon running down the side and disappearing into the ground.  That had to go somewhere, and ten minutes with a hired CAT showed exactly where it was. 

im fairly sure there will be no utilities there as its in an agricultural field and no properties or electric run in that direction the main concern i have is land drains i dont want to hit one when digging founds and cause a flood on the site, the well will be very old but id imagine there will be pipes running to and from it, the site itself is level but at the bottom of a slope

[Jeremy Harris]

11 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

im fairly sure there will be no utilities there as its in an agricultural field and no properties or electric run in that direction the main concern i have is land drains i dont want to hit one when digging founds and cause a flood on the site, the well will be very old but id imagine there will be pipes running to and from it, the site itself is level but at the bottom of a slope

 

 

Land drains are generally little or no bother to deal with.  We hit an old one, and there was no water in it, but even if there had it wouldn't have been any hassle to deal with.  Many older clay pipe land drains will probably be long since blocked, anyway.  Ours had a telephone pole going right through it, a few metres further up the hill.  I chucked a length of perforated land drain pipe in, just in case, and ran it down to an intact bit of clay pipe that ran under the lane to the stream.  I've never seen water come out of it, so I can only assume that it's blocked somewhere further up the hill.

[Amateur bob]

46 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

 

Land drains are generally little or no bother to deal with.  We hit an old one, and there was no water in it, but even if there had it wouldn't have been any hassle to deal with.  Many older clay pipe land drains will probably be long since blocked, anyway.  Ours had a telephone pole going right through it, a few metres further up the hill.  I chucked a length of perforated land drain pipe in, just in case, and ran it down to an intact bit of clay pipe that ran under the lane to the stream.  I've never seen water come out of it, so I can only assume that it's blocked somewhere further up the hill.

so its easy enough just to connect a new pipe and put it round property then rejoin? out of interest you wouldnt happen to know the cost per m of electric cable? i have a better site potential elsewhere but its 400m away from electric and id have to dig a trench through the middle of an arable field

[Jeremy Harris]

10 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

so its easy enough just to connect a new pipe and put it round property then rejoin?

 

Pretty much, yes.  You need to keep a fall on the pipe, but that's not usually much of a problem in a  field.  Field drains are designed to be "leaky", so there's nothing to seal up.

 

10 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

out of interest you wouldnt happen to know the cost per m of electric cable? i have a better site potential elsewhere but its 400m away from electric and id have to dig a trench through the middle of an arable field

 

 

Depends very much on the size of the cable and the type of supply.  Generally it's cheaper to go overhead than underground.  Most of the cost will be digging the trench, laying the cable and making good, rather than the cost of the cable.  The cable will be supplied and connected by your DNO, so they will be in control of that cost, although you should be able to get the trenching and making good done by any competent ground worker.  You really need to ask your DNO for a quote, as sometimes there can be nasty surprises, like if the additional load from your connection is going to require the DNO to reinforce the local network.  They will pass this reinforcement cost on to you, unfortunately.

[Amateur bob]

5 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

Pretty much, yes.  You need to keep a fall on the pipe, but that's not usually much of a problem in a  field.  Field drains are designed to be "leaky", so there's nothing to seal up.

 

 

 

Depends very much on the size of the cable and the type of supply.  Generally it's cheaper to go overhead than underground.  Most of the cost will be digging the trench, laying the cable and making good, rather than the cost of the cable.  The cable will be supplied and connected by your DNO, so they will be in control of that cost, although you should be able to get the trenching and making good done by any competent ground worker.  You really need to ask your DNO for a quote, as sometimes there can be nasty surprises, like if the additional load from your connection is going to require the DNO to reinforce the local network.  They will pass this reinforcement cost on to you, unfortunately.

ive a digger so could dig trench if that helps but wats a rough cost for cable?

[PeterW]

4 hours ago, Amateur bob said:

im fairly sure there will be no utilities there as its in an agricultural field

 

I take it then there is no planning permission ..?? That may be the first of your challenges. 

[Amateur bob]

Just now, PeterW said:

 

I take it then there is no planning permission ..?? That may be the first of your challenges. 

no planning yet, hoping to use farm as justification for house

[PeterW]

Is this north of the border ..??

 

English planning can be a real issue with this and you may need an agricultural tie - that can significantly reduce the value of a house and also make borrowing difficult. You may also have to prove viability - anything less than 10  hectares from memory isn’t financially viable in planning terms as a farm so you would be struggling to justify. 

[Amateur bob]

Im in scotland, the farm is 500ha

[Redoctober]

22 hours ago, Amateur bob said:

 i have a better site potential elsewhere but its 400m away from electric and id have to dig a trench through the middle of an arable field

 

WOW - 400 Metres away from the pole! Not sure of the cost of cable but I do know that Scottish Power who dealt with our Electricity were happy to supply 50m of cable within their quote for us in order to get connected. The Engineer went on to say anything over and you are "talking big money"!! 

Also, there is a member or two on this site who has had expensive experiences with energy supply issues. 

Tread very carefully would be my advice.

[Redoctober]

As for land drains and the issues they may present, well I'm with @JSHarris on this matter. We too built on a section of an agricultural field. We came across field drains - didn't replace or repair as such as the drainage systems we installed, more than covered the purposes of the ones we came across.

[Amateur bob]

50 minutes ago, Redoctober said:

As for land drains and the issues they may present, well I'm with @JSHarris on this matter. We too built on a section of an agricultural field. We came across field drains - didn't replace or repair as such as the drainage systems we installed, more than covered the purposes of the ones we came across.

did you lay drains round the perimeter of your house and tie them in to a field drain somewhere?

[Redoctober]

17 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

did you lay drains round the perimeter of your house and tie them in to a field drain somewhere?

 

Yes they have, take a look at the drainage plan attached - 

D3199 - 2001B - Drainage Layout.pdf

[Amateur bob]

4 minutes ago, Redoctober said:

 

Yes they have, take a look at the drainage plan attached - 

D3199 - 2001B - Drainage Layout.pdf 380.26 kB · 0 downloads

thanks i had a look, im no expert on drainage but will be pipe be at a depth where it will be sitting just above subsoil so that any water above that flows towards house will seep down into drain then away?

[Redoctober]

3 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

thanks i had a look, im no expert on drainage but will be pipe be at a depth where it will be sitting just above subsoil so that any water above that flows towards house will seep down into drain then away?

 

I think I understand what it is you are asking - across our plot prior to digging out the foundations, there would have been a series of land drains about 800mm - 1000mm deep I suppose. Either way, deep enough to avoid the plough!

These land drains may have been / were broken once we started digging the foundations, albeit only a short section would have been broken at any given point. We didn't repair or replace the sections that were broken. The drainage trenches were dug and filled with a bed of stones prior to being backed filled.

Upon completion and what we are finding, is that any surface water penetrating the earth across the plot, is accommodated for by the remaining land drains that exist within our plot.

We have found our plot to be a very well drained plot which doesn't suffer any standing water despite the good old Scottish weather!

Interestingly enough though, prior to us developing the plot, there was a section that was always prone to standing water. That problem is no longer as I believe the trench we dug for the power cables took care of that little problem.

I hope all this helps.

[Bitpipe]

On 08/10/2019 at 14:14, Amateur bob said:

ive a digger so could dig trench if that helps but wats a rough cost for cable?

 

So, I'm no expert, but these people are  https://www.elandcables.com/cables/spen-cable so call them and see what 400m would cost - they should be able to figure out what your DNO would use and the rating for a domestic supply etc. You'd also need 400m of approved ducting as the DNO cable is not armoured.

 

Now, not sure if this is at all relevant but if you were running armoured cable (known as SWA) that distance then  looking here https://www.clevelandcable.com/calculator.php and plugging in 100A for supply (typical domestic) and 3 core armoured underground requires 185mm2 cable.

 

Over here https://www.superlecdirect.com 400m of 185mm2 cable would come to just under £18k ex VAT.

 

So not cheap.

[ProDave]

What supply infrastructure is in the area?  

 

If it's a typical rural 11KV overhead network it might be cheaper for the DNO to run an overhead spur from the nearest 11KV line and your own pole mounted transformer.

 

Whatever, the best way to find out is ask them for a quote for a supply to the house site.

[Amateur bob]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

What supply infrastructure is in the area?  

 

If it's a typical rural 11KV overhead network it might be cheaper for the DNO to run an overhead spur from the nearest 11KV line and your own pole mounted transformer.

 

Whatever, the best way to find out is ask them for a quote for a supply to the house site.

i was on sp energy networks there to get a quote but it looks like i could be charged just for the quote? i was under the impression quotes were free?

[recoveringbuilder]

25 minutes ago, Amateur bob said:

i was on sp energy networks there to get a quote but it looks like i could be charged just for the quote? i was under the impression quotes were free?

Quotes are free, I don’t think they’ll do overhead now though, we had just under 400m if I remember correctly and they wouldn’t entertain going overhead, said it all had to go underground now 

[PeterW]

400m overhead will be 10 poles on 11kv plus a transformer. Budget for £2k per pole, £500/50m cabling and £10k for the transformer ...

 

I’d be moving the house closer to the services. 

[Amateur bob]

On 09/10/2019 at 18:39, PeterW said:

400m overhead will be 10 poles on 11kv plus a transformer. Budget for £2k per pole, £500/50m cabling and £10k for the transformer ...

 

I’d be moving the house closer to the services. 

so its £10/m for cabling? if i dig the trench ill just have to pay for cost of cabling and them connecting it then?