Greetings one and all!

[stevemac]

Hello to everybody at Build-Hub.

I am hoping to purchase an asymmetric chalet type building. Bungalow with dormer windows (gabled hopefully) and upstairs rooms or a one and a half story house if that makes more sense. I suppose the age of the building might be from the 1920’s- 1930’s onwards.  I am seeking a building that need modernisation, restoration with a large plot and hopefully quite isolated.  Wales, Cornwall, Devon are the preferred destinations, we don’t fancy moving north of Worcestershire.

The plan is to use the money saved by buying a worn property on refurbishing and re-modelling the building into a more classical shape. I am a great fan of Edwin Lutyens, pebbledash, buttresses, overhanging and decorated eaves and gables, use of stone and tile facings etc. Arts and Crafts style type architecture.

Somewhere out there, there will be the house for us, it’s just a matter of finding it. Unfortunately, it is now a growing trend to demolish the scenario we are seeking to make way for multiple modern housing units.

 

If I can be of any assistance to anybody, please just ask. I have 35 years’ experience in the conservation, repair and restoration of some of the country’s finest monuments and buildings. I was described by senior personal of English Heritage as being one of the country’s finest Stonemasons. There is very little I do not know about stonework and masonry generally and I have been and advisor to both EH and the National Trust. Apart from writing the specifications and reports for the restoration of ancient and important buildings, I have obtained Listed Building Consents for many private customers and clients over the years.

 

Anyway, nice to meet you- Steve.

[MikeSharp01]

Welcome to THE forum for self builders and like minded individuals. Look forward to hearing more about your project. I envy stone masons as the skills they have are amazing and they create such permenance - needless to say I dont have your head for hieghts. 

[Jilly]

Hello, welcome! There's a huge breadth of experience on here already an I think you just expanded it in a new direction. 

[stevemac]

Just now, MikeSharp01 said:

Welcome to THE forum for self builders and like minded individuals. Look forward to hearing more about your project. I envy stone masons as the skills they have are amazing and they create such permenance - needless to say I dont have your head for hieghts. 

Thanks for the welcome Mike! We are just getting an idea of costs and locations at the moment and are busy getting our current house ready for sale next year. That should happen fairly quickly as we are in a popular area. Hopefully we can then rent to have cash available for auction or negotiated purchase.

 

You are right about the heights thing, I think fear has concentrated my mind sometimes for the better.?

[stevemac]

Just now, Jilly said:

Hello, welcome! There's a huge breadth of experience on here already an I think you just expanded it in a new direction. 

Hi Jilly, nice to hear from you!  I am always happy to share any useful knowlege and experience I may have. Best-Steve.

[scottishjohn]

Ok heres a question 

cut stone granite house circa 1800+ in scotland 

wall 28" thick 

outside cut stone wall is pefect --really  it is perfect even trees that have tried to grow out of bottom have not moved anything in 50years of it not having a roof 

could you remove the very thick rubble wall behind it - would it stand up 

the ides would be to spray inside of this wall with closed cell foam after building a timber frame inside it 

foam is to water proof it and bond it to timber frame  and so get modern insulated house but keeping room sizes as they are 

I have been told there will be long bits of granite in outer wall to tie it to  the internal  rubble wall

picture is 1975 --no roof now

?

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by scottishjohn

[Jilly]

Have you seen www.wreckoftheweek.co.uk  ? 

[Ferdinand]

Hi Steve

 

Welcome.

 

My view is that Listed Buildings may become less desirable over time, due to enviro concerns and increasingly detailed micro-regulation.

 

Our family restored and lived in a Derbyshire Hall over 40 years .. bought derelict in the mid 1970s.

 

I would not do it myself.

 

A non listed building of similar quality might be a different kettle of fish.

 

Love your octagonal gun turret. ?

 

Ferdinand

Edited September 20, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Cpd]

Welcome and greetings from a fellow stonemason, I was also a leading expert in my field of the restoration and re building  of heritage walking tracks in environmentally sensitive areas, 10 years in Scotland and 10 in Australia. It’s a great forum with some seriously knowledgable and more importantly helpful folk and I know your filling a gap in the knowledge base so it’s great to have you on board. Just a few pics of my type of work (tiny sample....) look forward to following your progress. 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by Cpd

[stevemac]

1 hour ago, scottishjohn said:

Ok heres a question 

cut stone granite house circa 1800+ in scotland 

wall 28" thick 

outside cut stone wall is pefect --really  it is perfect even trees that have tried to grow out of bottom have not moved anything in 50years of it not having a roof 

could you remove the very thick rubble wall behind it - would it stand up 

the ides would be to spray inside of this wall with closed cell foam after building a timber frame inside it 

foam is to water proof it and bond it to timber frame  and so get modern insulated house but keeping room sizes as they are 

I have been told there will be long bits of granite in outer wall to tie it to  the internal  rubble wall

picture is 1975 --no roof now

?

 

Hi there, I would have to say that there is a very real chance that there are stones extending from the front, to the rear of the masonry. Subject to any constraints, the removal of a few test areas would confirm this. The economy of labour dictates that whilst there is a need to square off the perpends, and the base and top of the stones, the rear's would probarbly be left quite ruough and of random length made up with rubble to the internal dimensions. In my experienece, the lengths of those stones into the building can be quite varaible and inter-dependant. Also, I would have thought that internally, there may be timberwork being supported, not by the exterior stones, but by the internal rubblework. Is there an issue with damp- insulation? Sorry to be vague, but come back to me. Steve.

Edited September 20, 2019 by stevemac
spelling

[stevemac]

24 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

Hi Steve

 

Welcome.

 

My view is that Listed Buildings may become less desirable over time, due to enviro concerns and increasingly detailed micro-regulation.

 

Our family restored and lived in a Derbyshire Hall over 40 years .. bought derelict in the mid 1970s.

 

I would not do it myself.

 

A non listed building of similar quality might be a different kettle of fish.

 

Love your octagonal gun turret. ?

 

Ferdinand

Thanks for your reply to my introduction!

 

Listed buildings are a pain to engage with now. Things have always been difficult, but the disinsentives are abound. We have been looking at a building at risk and I have the perfect skills to resore this 2* building. However, whilst I might be prepared to take on this highly skilled and dedicated task, not, the building, the landscape, the trees and flora and fauna do not belong to you any more as more agencies pitch-in with onerous restrictions. Being empty for some time means that an open ended bat survey has to take place with no time restrictions and just this one element almost sunk the business of one friend of mine.

 

Another picture of Cupola I built during construction.

 

Cheers-Steve

[Bitpipe]

2 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

needless to say I dont have your head for heights. 

 

or balance.

 

Welcome!

[stevemac]

9 minutes ago, Cpd said:

Welcome and greetings from a fellow stonemason, I was also a leading expert in my field of the restoration and re building  of heritage walking tracks in environmentally sensitive areas, 10 years in Scotland and 10 in Australia. It’s a great forum with some seriously knowledgable and more importantly helpful folk and I know your filling a gap in the knowledge base so it’s great to have you on board. Just a few pics of my type of work (tiny sample....) look forward to following your progress. 

 

Very nice work, I felt an immediate sense of calm just looking at those pictures. Ancient paths and pathways are a wonderful part of our ancient narrative. I think there are a few ancient stone bridges in Cornwall, or pathways, or stones crossing various rivers at various paces. Wonderful stuff, thanks for sharing!

[stevemac]

1 hour ago, Jilly said:

Have you seen www.wreckoftheweek.co.uk  ? 

A had a look a month ago, but I will go back this weekend and look again. The biggest heartache is seeing the place of your dreams, but being unable to do anything just yet. But of course there are stragglers that will be there for some time and of course by looking now, you are more exprerienced to deal with things when that time comes. I ahve enclosed a picture of the sort of look I want to acheive. Stone detailing, smooth lime render, pebbledash, gabled dormers, asymetric-Arts and Crafts

 

Thank you very much for your suggestion.?

 

Steve

Edited September 20, 2019 by stevemac
missed picture and text- Doh!

[stevemac]

6 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

 

or balance.

 

Welcome!

?

[Redoctober]

Welcome aboard and I would echo the comments above with regards to your wealth of experience and knowledge. I'm sure it will offer members that something different to tap into as and when. I feel I should ask you to cast your eye on our stone built cottage, erected last year but in a way, I'm not sure I should - The phrase " careful what you wish for " springs to mind!! ?

[stevemac]

8 minutes ago, Redoctober said:

Welcome aboard and I would echo the comments above with regards to your wealth of experience and knowledge. I'm sure it will offer members that something different to tap into as and when. I feel I should ask you to cast your eye on our stone built cottage, erected last year but in a way, I'm not sure I should - The phrase " careful what you wish for " springs to mind!! ?

Hello there, thanks for your greeting. I would be very happy to see your cottage and thank you for offering to share that. It's great to be so involved with others who have such similar interests. It's always interesting to look at all work regardless of age, genre, style,design and location.

 

Best wishes- Steve.

[Russell griffiths]

Hi, I don’t think I have ever seen an introduction with so many replies, you are obviously going to be a good help to many on here. ??

[Onoff]

TWO stoned masons now!

 

Welcome.

 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

The whole listed building thing needs an overhaul, IMHO.  a few years ago now, near where we used to live, there was a lovely old barn, that was falling into disrepair.  Like many old barns, it wasn't suited to modern farming practice, yet was listed, so there was nothing the farmer could really do about it.  He tried a few times to get listed building consent for change of use, to light industrial and domestic, but failed.  In the end he just let it fall down.  He was then fined for allowing it to fall into disrepair, but went on the offensive in the local paper, pointing out that he'd tried to save it three times, and each time he'd been turned down.  His final line was that the £2000 fine he received was excellent value, as he'd spent far more than that trying to get consent to restore the barn for some useful purpose.

 

My in-laws used to live in a listed town house in Chichester, and they quickly learned just how expensive and difficult it was to do many jobs that most would take for granted.  In their case, one of the really absurd conditions was that a very large, 1960's single pane window (literally the size of a show window) on the first floor, at the rear, couldn't be replaced with smaller paned windows in keeping with those in the rest of the house.  Apparently the big window had been fitted before the building was listed, as a means to get the piano into that room.  They were quite happy to get rid of the piano (it came with the house, as it needed a crane to get it in or out) and wanted to replace the window with something more like that which had originally been there, before it was butchered in the 1960's.  Sadly this proved to be a hurdle to high to jump, so the house was sold complete with the piano and the ghastly big window.

[Cpd]

When I was in the Peak District I came across this amazing ruin, this was just the piggery the main house ruins were to the right. It’s not often i fall in love with a place but this really was something very special. No habitable building anywhere nearby, just completely deserted and remote. If I had wanted to live in this area I would have moved heaven and earth to see if it was possible to get it ! 

[stevemac]

16 hours ago, Russell griffiths said:

Hi, I don’t think I have ever seen an introduction with so many replies, you are obviously going to be a good help to many on here. ??

Brilliant, I can talk historic fabric and stonemasonry, carving and sculpture all day long.

 

Cheers Russell- Steve.

[stevemac]

20 hours ago, JSHarris said:

The whole listed building thing needs an overhaul, IMHO.  a few years ago now, near where we used to live, there was a lovely old barn, that was falling into disrepair.  Like many old barns, it wasn't suited to modern farming practice, yet was listed, so there was nothing the farmer could really do about it.  He tried a few times to get listed building consent for change of use, to light industrial and domestic, but failed.  In the end he just let it fall down.  He was then fined for allowing it to fall into disrepair, but went on the offensive in the local paper, pointing out that he'd tried to save it three times, and each time he'd been turned down.  His final line was that the £2000 fine he received was excellent value, as he'd spent far more than that trying to get consent to restore the barn for some useful purpose.

 

My in-laws used to live in a listed town house in Chichester, and they quickly learned just how expensive and difficult it was to do many jobs that most would take for granted.  In their case, one of the really absurd conditions was that a very large, 1960's single pane window (literally the size of a show window) on the first floor, at the rear, couldn't be replaced with smaller paned windows in keeping with those in the rest of the house.  Apparently the big window had been fitted before the building was listed, as a means to get the piano into that room.  They were quite happy to get rid of the piano (it came with the house, as it needed a crane to get it in or out) and wanted to replace the window with something more like that which had originally been there, before it was butchered in the 1960's.  Sadly this proved to be a hurdle to high to jump, so the house was sold complete with the piano and the ghastly big window.

 Quite right. There certainly is an increasing disincentive for many skilled and competent individuals from attempting the restoration of listed buildings. Not because of the physical requirements for those restorations, but because of the ever increasing tyranny exercised by regulatory bodies. I am losing interest in pursuing derelict, or abandoned listed buildings therefore. The picture of the granite 15th century granite farmhouse is something I am currently pursuing. However my enthusiasm is dampened some-what.

 

It is 2*, so it is one of only 5% of all listed buildings. As a consequence, even though I am prepared to finance and rescue this building, there may be onerous restrictions on any material changes to the interior, which is 18th century generally and dreadful. Very little of the original structure exists and the roof now sits on softwood pine, rather than oak, or elm.

 

Though I am prepared to cut and create an authentic roof with my own sawmill, the awful non-original interior of stud walling and sub-divided rooms will have to stay, though the listing exists for the remarkable exterior and building itself, rather than the much later un-remarkable interior.  Also, the exterior of the building now comes under scrutiny and the land adjoining it. I may be banned from the building, whilst an open ended bat survey takes place with no limit on time and budget. The trees would be subject to surveys and preservation orders and then there would be the need for impact assessments for bio-diversity and flora and fauna and toads, newts, etc. I'm all for the preservation of wildlife and what-not, but it can occur that you can be saddled with enormous costs in time and money that have a significant impact on your project. A friend of mine face bankruptcy though she observed due diligence because of these scenarios. It may feel as if the house you call home is out of your control and influence.

 

The there is the need to preserve the narrative of change. An unknown quantity for any restoration. The picture I have enclosed is of the Doctors House, in Great Witley, Worcestershire. A fine grade 2 building, significant in its stature and design and history. A husband and wife team sought to restore it and restore the original plum coloured welsh slates as seen elsewhere in the village. (Those slates had been replaced in the 1970's by hideous concrete pantiles). Needless to say, the conservation dept. of Malvern Hills insisted that “The character of the original building is much enhanced by the introduction of those concrete tiles and the-fore any replacement will have to be in the same, or nearest materials available. The tiles tell a narrative which enriches our architectural landscape"

 

Fair enough if that replacement material, or 'improvement' has merit, or provenance, but really? Is this a good judgement when all is said and done?   The house has remained empty and abandoned after its new roof as shown.

Edited September 21, 2019 by stevemac
lousy spelling and unintelligible in parts

[Jeremy Harris]

I cannot get my head around the current thinking when it comes to preserving and protecting historic buildings.  A lot of them were butchered during the Victorian era, and it seems reasonable to keep some element of that in terms of retaining the history of the house through the years, but frankly I find it hard to understand how really poor workmanship from the 1950s and 60's can be defended in the same way. 

 

There needs to be room for compromise, so that when someone comes along with a strong committent to preserve and renovate a building, retaining it's intrinsic character, but making it useful, so it can continue to exist for future generations, they are given the support they need by those controlling our heritage.  It must be better to retain a slightly modified historic building in good order, than let it collapse and disappear because it's just too difficult to get the necessary consents.

 

Many of our old buildings have been extensively modified and changed, as the needs of those living in them and using them have changed.  The second house we bought was a cottage that had been originally built in 1678. with granite rubblestone walls, with very little properly dressed stone (just the corners).It had been rebuilt with solid brick front and rear walls around 1904, following a bad fire in 1903, so looked late Victorian from the front, with sash windows and a timber glazed entrance porch, with Victorian floor tiles.  A bedroom had been divided at some time in the 1960's to create a small bathroom, and a single skin brick extension had been added, probably about the same time, to create a separate kitchen.  You could still read all these changes in the building, from the clues in the stonework.  I changed it further by digging out the ground floor (to install a Radon barrier) lowering the floor in the process to give more headroom.  I also insulated a dry lined the single skin kitchen walls, and changed the windows and doors to new timber ones that retained the design of the originals, but were casements, rather than sash (it was a windy area, and the sash windows always made a lot of noise).  Looking at the house on Google Earth recently it was still very similar externally to how it had been when we lived there 30 years ago, so the history and look of the building has been retained, by sympathetic repairs and renovation, even though it's not listed.  That suggests to me that people who buy older houses like this don't, in the main, want to destroy the very character of the house that attracted them.  I would suggest that someone that takes on a listed building is probably even more likely to want to repair and renovate it sympathetically, which is more than can be said for some of the horrors that the Victorians unleashed on our old buildings.

 

[stevemac]

19 hours ago, Cpd said:

When I was in the Peak District I came across this amazing ruin, this was just the piggery the main house ruins were to the right. It’s not often i fall in love with a place but this really was something very special. No habitable building anywhere nearby, just completely deserted and remote. If I had wanted to live in this area I would have moved heaven and earth to see if it was possible to get it ! 

That is a posh piggery and what wonderful Ashlar work too!  It's easy to forget how much time and effort went into making agricultural buildings fit for the estate they occupied. It would be a lovely building to build. The photo I have enclosed is a similary delicious use of stone and Ashalr work, just down the road.  This is also in Sandstone and like your ruin- looks good enought to eat!