Price per m2

[newhome]

5 minutes ago, nod said:

Quick answer to that a plot in south wales my cost under a 100

Same plot where I am is over 200

Se 400 London who knows

Most who come on here know exactly how much the plot will cost But don’t know how much the bricks and mirror and associated costs 

 

It would be very misleading for someone who has been gifted a plot To give an overall figure without making this clear 

 

 

Exactly this! I didn't actually pay for the solicitor's fees or surveys (company move so they paid for those as well as selling fees, removals, storage, renting during the build etc.) so should I include those or not? There are just too many variables when it comes to the plot and I don't see that it's that useful if they are included. What people are actually interested in mostly is, as you say, how much it costs to build the thing. 

 

 

[SteamyTea]

@JSHarris

Taking just your wiring, as an example of a quirk of costing.

You helped a newly qualified electrician, did you cost in your labour, or write that off.

 

As a general observation, would it be possible to find out how many metre squared the big house builders have done and work out the price from that.

And how does that compare to the price of other things. Say cars, boats, caravans, graves, offices.

I really think that this sort of calculation is valueless and totally pointless.

But fun all the same.

What may be more useful is breaking it down into component parts, then compare the quotes to the actual price paid.

Could then make a game from it.

[Patrick]

6 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

@JSHarris

Taking just your wiring, as an example of a quirk of costing.

You helped a newly qualified electrician, did you cost in your labour, or write that off.

 

As a general observation, would it be possible to find out how many metre squared the big house builders have done and work out the price from that.

And how does that compare to the price of other things. Say cars, boats, caravans, graves, offices.

I really think that this sort of calculation is valueless and totally pointless.

But fun all the same.

What may be more useful is breaking it down into component parts, then compare the quotes to the actual price paid.

Could then make a game from it.

AGREE

 

This is why i tried to seperate all the costs in labour and materials , and with both trying to get down to sqm prices. Difficult to calculate , very often "it depend" but thats the case with everything in consturction.

 

[Patrick]

2 hours ago, nod said:

The Architect I’d dealt with before 

and told him We couldn’t afford to go over 2000 His able assistant did most of the work 

There was your standard county Counsul submission fees on top which we paid directly

He only had one site visit and no involvement after materials had been passed 

Not a bad earner

 

The SE has done quite a bit for me over the years and is the local authority guy to go to 

350 for foundations and 150 for lintels steels and a couple of alterations 

Planning had insisted on peculation and ground tests 

He said your across from a sand pit quarry No point  I will speak to planning One phone call and that was that

 

This is the type of stuff that makes a great big difference in final buidling costs as well.

I was starting off into this adventure long time ago and without the help of Buildhub, so overpaid (in my opinion) on Architects Design and Planning Advisor.

Should have not done it this way and now I can see that many done it differently , I surely could have saved 3-5000£ , but would have could have should have, we learn from mistakes.

[nod]

5 minutes ago, Patrick said:

This is the type of stuff that makes a great big difference in final buidling costs as well.

I was starting off into this adventure long time ago and without the help of Buildhub, so overpaid (in my opinion) on Architects Design and Planning Advisor.

Should have not done it this way and now I can see that many done it differently , I surely could have saved 3-5000£ , but would have could have should have, we learn from mistakes.

Another example was contaminated land Which had been done ten years previously 

This was coming in at around £2000 

We found an online company that did it for 500 Sure the others where going to take soil samples 

But we new it had already been done All these savings soon add up 

[Jeremy Harris]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

@JSHarris

Taking just your wiring, as an example of a quirk of costing.

You helped a newly qualified electrician, did you cost in your labour, or write that off.

 

 

 

No, I didn't cost my time at all, and at a guess the cost per m² would be a fair bit higher if I had included it.  The problem then becomes one of how to put a value on my time.  Technically there was no cost to me for my time, as I'm retired, so being "paid" whether I do something constructive or not.  I'd intended all along to do as much work as I thought I reasonably could, but ended up doing more than I'd originally planned to do myself, mainly because we ran out of money to pay someone to do it.

 

One big problem with costing DIY time spent is that it took me very much longer to do things, both because I was working single-handed (slows things down a lot) and because I had to learn stuff as I went, so quite a few jobs got done more than once, when I didn't get them right first time.  I probably spent three or four times longer doing things than someone skilled would have done, so just costing my time at normal rates doesn't seem reasonable.

 

 

[SteamyTea]

17 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

I probably spent three or four times longer doing things than someone skilled would have done

Like skirting boards.  Some things should just be banished, forever.

18 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

as I'm retired, so being "paid" whether I do something constructive or not

Makes it easy to work out the cost as you know how much you get, what hours there are in a year, how many you spent working on the house each year (probably about 10,000 out of every 8760), to get 90% finished.

 

[nod]

We are currently in negotiations with a friend who has inherited two plots If we pay 200 k for one we will share design costs and build two exterior identical homes

If he includes the land his build cost will be half mine 

If he includes my 200

His costs will be zero per mtr 

There lies the problem of including the land 

 

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

4 hours ago, PeterStarck said:

I've decided it's pointless trying to use cost/m2 as a comparison.[...]

 

Exactly. 

The issue is somewhat similar to - and related to -  calculating the 'area'  of a house. Hence the RICS Code of Practice on area measurement.  (2018)

 

Our house has two areas which will never be used by anyone - tucked under the lowest part of the roof (not part of the Net Internal Area) annotated  in their diagram as  'Unusable Space'   I hear @SteamyTea's voice in my head saying

"Whats that supposed to mean?"

 

Here reproduced without permission the RICS definition of Nett Internal Area 

 

https://www.rics.org/uk/upholding-professional-standards/sector-standards/real-estate/code-of-measuring-practice/

August 2019

[LA3222]

My original point stands - if a cost arises due to the build that would not otherwise have arisen then it should be included in the £/m2 cost.  There is a lot of talk about if I had the tools should I include the cost a la @JSHarris - no.  You did not incur a cost as you had them, if someone didn't have them then yes, as they have incurred a cost.

 

@newhome - scaffold tower, you incurred a cost.  Yes it saved you but the balance sheet only cares about costs incurred not savings made.

 

@nod yes plot prices vary, we all know that but it is still a cost associated with a build so why wouldn't it be included.  It's no different to labour costs varying depending upon location, do we ignore these in order to standardise cost comparisons?

 

 

@newhome so you didn't incur fees - you answered your own question.  You didn't incur a cost so why invent one in order to box tick against what fees others may have paid out on?

 

At the end of the day 'my opinion' is that any spend should be included.  I'm not sure where the grey areas are in that statement - it's black and white.

 

The crux of the problem is that not a single build will be the same as mine, in the same location with the same labour costs etc.  The only common ground is that they are self builds.  Direct comparisons are impossible so the only sensible way to do it is to explain all your costs and add some context with regards to plot location, how much work taken on, what year you built in etc. etc.

 

That way there may be common areas where people can compare like for like I.e. soil surveys, site insurance etc. 

 

I think that excluding costs can lead to the unsuspecting arriving at an inaccurate impression  of how much it will cost to self build.  Their are so many secondary, indirect costs associated with self building that they should be made clear so potential self builders go into this with a clear understanding of potential pit falls. 

[Patrick]

10 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said:

 

Exactly. 

The issue is somewhat similar to - and related to -  calculating the 'area'  of a house. Hence the RICS Code of Practice on area measurement.  (2018)

 

Our house has two areas which will never be used by anyone - tucked under the lowest part of the roof (not part of the Net Internal Area) annotated  in their diagram as  'Unusable Space'   I hear @SteamyTea's voice in my head saying

"Whats that supposed to mean?"

 

I would be already thankfull if the UK would adapt sqm into the property game in general. No matter how.

It seems to be a quite exotic thing to give sqm or price/sqm with built houses/flats , which is ridiculous .

Pricing on basis of Bedrooms is a system i can not wrap my head around . It just doesnt make any sense to me why anyone would ever accept this (i can perfectly see the point when selling stuff)

In terms of how to measure sqm in houses, i always was under the general impression that it s a widespread acceptable method to measure living space (excluding utility, garages ) by simply multiplying wall lengths, and taking sloping ceiling into account as : everything between 1.5m-2m counts 1/2 , everything under 1.5m is 0 .

This works quite well , but the main point is that everybody needs to stick to 1 system , cause the confusion arises with separate systems of calculting and/or measuring are used.

 

 

[LA3222]

As an aside, I have even gone so far as to include fuel costs which have arisen due to visiting the plot early on in the build.

 

£140 return each time, clearly a fair chunk of cash cumulatively speaking so it needs to be included.

[Patrick]

@LA3222

fair play to you .

I agree with most, but with the plot price inclusion.

Most common agreement on Build Costs/sqm is that it should include everything (like you said -every cost that occured) related to building something apart from the purchase of the Land.

If the land was purchased with part building on it or with services in place, in my opinion this would probably be a minority of builds(apart from renovations) , it  gets more difficult to calculate.

Like you said , it always needs context , otherwise pure price comparison/sqm is pointless.

 

 

[Declan52]

I don't think you should include the cost of the land due to the vast difference in how much a site costs between different regions. 

You could buy a site here in NI for less than £40k. In the South East your into  hundreds of thousands. So I could buy my plot and build a very good sized house for way less than someone could buy their site near London. 

You could say that my house cost £X per sqm and then include the cost of the site separately for a more balanced view.

Everything else then should be included, tools, hire costs, if you bought and sold things like scaffolding, utility costs etc.

I think it would be unrealistic to include your own labour costs. How much spare time do each of us put in in terms of the total hours. You would be into thousands of man hrs. Everything from actually doing some work on the build to sitting at home doing research into different aspects of your build to being on this forum asking questions could all be classed as work. I don't think my calculator had enough screen room to add my man hrs up.

[SteamyTea]

8 minutes ago, Declan52 said:

I don't think you should include the cost of the land due to the vast difference in how much a site costs between different regions. 

And the size of the plot.  I may be a brownfield infill, or a 1000 acre farm.

[nod]

1 hour ago, LA3222 said:

My original point stands - if a cost arises due to the build that would not otherwise have arisen then it should be included in the £/m2 cost.  There is a lot of talk about if I had the tools should I include the cost a la @JSHarris - no.  You did not incur a cost as you had them, if someone didn't have them then yes, as they have incurred a cost.

 

@newhome - scaffold tower, you incurred a cost.  Yes it saved you but the balance sheet only cares about costs incurred not savings made.

 

@nod yes plot prices vary, we all know that but it is still a cost associated with a build so why wouldn't it be included.  It's no different to labour costs varying depending upon location, do we ignore these in order to standardise cost comparisons?

I stand by my original post 

It would be confusing to newbies to include the plot 

The easiest is to include everything and the purchase price of the plot should it be of interest to the person asking the question 

If my friend who has inherited the two plots comes on here and states that he is looking to complete a five bed house for a £1000 per mtr including the plot Or as I have already stated Once he has my 200k His build will have cost him nothing 

I do think when the question has been paused over the last couple of years Most if not all haven’t included the plot price in there calcs 

Keep it simple 

Though my wife makes exactly the same point as you 400 to build 750 valuation 

 

1 hour ago, LA3222 said:

 

 

@newhome so you didn't incur fees - you answered your own question.  You didn't incur a cost so why invent one in order to box tick against what fees others may have paid out on?

 

At the end of the day 'my opinion' is that any spend should be included.  I'm not sure where the grey areas are in that statement - it's black and white.

 

The crux of the problem is that not a single build will be the same as mine, in the same location with the same labour costs etc.  The only common ground is that they are self builds.  Direct comparisons are impossible so the only sensible way to do it is to explain all your costs and add some context with regards to plot location, how much work taken on, what year you built in etc. etc.

 

That way there may be common areas where people can compare like for like I.e. soil surveys, site insurance etc. 

 

I think that excluding costs can lead to the unsuspecting arriving at an inaccurate impression  of how much it will cost to self build.  Their are so many secondary, indirect costs associated with self building that they should be made clear so potential self builders go into this with a clear understanding of potential pit falls. 

[Oz07]

I would include site prep and surveys needed and all services. I would discount solicitors fee's with regards to buying the plot and count this in the cost of the land. Potentially would group any planning/architect costs with this also. I count all other costs associated with building including fuel.

At the end of the day you can see a

Purchase price

Cost to gain planning

Cost to demo/strip/prep and build

[Ferdinand]

2 hours ago, AnonymousBosch said:

 

Exactly. 

The issue is somewhat similar to - and related to -  calculating the 'area'  of a house. Hence the RICS Code of Practice on area measurement.  (2018)

 

Our house has two areas which will never be used by anyone - tucked under the lowest part of the roof (not part of the Net Internal Area) annotated  in their diagram as  'Unusable Space'   I hear @SteamyTea's voice in my head saying

"Whats that supposed to mean?"

 

Here reproduced without permission the RICS definition of Nett Internal Area 

 

https://www.rics.org/uk/upholding-professional-standards/sector-standards/real-estate/code-of-measuring-practice/

August 2019

 

Exempt under critique and review.  ?

[nod]

47 minutes ago, nod said:

 

I agree 

I would perhaps go further and split self builders into 

several categories

 

Turn Key

Main contractor

Managing the project yourself

Doing most the work yourself

 

Land cost same for all four

Professional the same

Utility the same

Material uptp 10%   More for top three 

 

Dont under estimate how much labour costs 

[SteamyTea]

I think I have cracked it.