JanetE Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Interested to know the difference between these two and their different applications! All advice gratefully received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Neither are silicones. These are marketed as combined sealant, adhesive, gap filling goop. Sikalfex is extraordinarily good stuff IMO and is my weapon of choice for setting in and fundamentally sealing shower trays / formers and bonding baths etc into place. The merchants often have a 'sample' box with two pieces of wood bonded together with a ~6mm bead of sikaflex and the challenge is to get the two apart. It can't be done, I've tried twisting and tearing it and it just doesn't die. CT1 is pretty much as good but can be torn / pulled apart. I use the clear one for sealing between trays and tiles as it doesn't degrade, go mouldy or fail like clear silicone does. For 'chemicular dissection', don't ask me . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 6 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: For 'chemicular dissection', don't ask me . A little light reading? Hybrid MS Sealants.pdf 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Construction Channel Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 9 hours ago, Nickfromwales said: It can't be done, I've tried twisting and tearing it and it just doesn't die. man up and twist harder, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 2 hours ago, Construction Channel said: man up and twist harder, I did.....up to the point I was sweating, effing and jeffing, and looking like a cheerleader. Cant be done. End of. Anybody know what I'm on about? And split one ? Just me then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 5 hours ago, PeterStarck said: A little light reading? Hybrid MS Sealants.pdf I'll read that later if the Coors Light don't blur the words too much. Work in the morning so only a 6-pack ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Construction Channel Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Anybody know what I'm on about? And split one ? Just me then ? yes, they said i couldn't split it first one broke the wood first in fairness but the second one tore eventually with enough twisting. Ill give you its strong. but i don't like being beaten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bitpipe Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said: I did.....up to the point I was sweating, effing and jeffing, and looking like a cheerleader. Cant be done. End of. Anybody know what I'm on about? And split one ? Just me then ? Our plumbers had never heard of it but I made them use it on Nick's recommendation to fix the shower trays and anywhere silicone would have been used. So, our en-suite sink and cabinet were been bonded onto the tiles with Sikaflex. A few weeks later they had to be removed to get at the leak we had. Two plumbers, a joiner, multitool, global fish knife and much swearing and it still wouldn't budge. Finally got it off and cracked the sink in the process (invisibly fixed by MagicMan). Now they swear by it. - I've just used it to fit some 8mm U channel side on to the wall to take the son's shower screen and it's rock solid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 I have to do exactly the same thing next week......Tap washers gave up the ghost so the carcase got soaked over time and it all swelled up so I have to remove and refit the sink and renew the cabinet. Not looking forward to it tbh, and it's a riven, ceramic tile I'm going to cut the unit into firewood and remove one bonded side at a time. I hope the tiles stay on the wall ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 12 hours ago, Construction Channel said: yes, they said i couldn't split it first one broke the wood first in fairness but the second one tore eventually with enough twisting. Ill give you its strong. but i don't like being beaten Tough guy eh? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanetE Posted September 18, 2016 Author Share Posted September 18, 2016 (edited) This is very helpful, thanks to all. Just a quick question for Nick. Why use ct1 at all, why not just use sikaflex, especially as it seems to be considerably cheaper?? I recall that you finish off with a layer of silicone anyway as ct1 in white turns a nasty yellow colour?? Edited September 18, 2016 by JanetE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 I don't use white CT1 for ANYTHING. It goes near custard yellow. I will only, and reluctantly, use colour matched silicones to give a job the cherry on the cake IF I can't do the cosmetic / final sealing with a clear bead of CT1. This siliconing is done over a fundamental seal and accepted as 'sacrificial' sealing for aesthetics only. That can be quickly and easily removed and replaced as the silicone gets tired / grotty. The reason for the mix of makes is that I've not actually seen a clear Sikaflex tbh ( and haven't really looked for one either, for whatever reason ). Also, comparing the two, I maintain that Sikaflex is unrivalled for use as an adhesive, complimented with excellent 'sealing' properties, and stays white. You could quite easily tool and finish white Sikaflex and have it as the final product on display, but definitely not so with white CT1. Fwiw, the colured CT1's seem fine and maintain their colour so a shame the white goes 'off'. Hold the press....Bingo I'll get some and give it a whirl. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 From my limited experience, CT1 lasts a lot longer in the tube once opened- certalinly longer than Sika does. I haven't noticed any diffence in price between them so tend to use CT1 for doing little jobs as it saves me throwing away half tubes of Sika. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JanetE Posted September 19, 2016 Author Share Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Crofter said: From my limited experience, CT1 lasts a lot longer in the tube once opened- certalinly longer than Sika does. I haven't noticed any diffence in price between them so tend to use CT1 for doing little jobs as it saves me throwing away half tubes of Sika. Been checking prices on line and the cheapest I can get the clear CT1 is £10.98 per tube v Sikaflex £4.62 !! Edited September 19, 2016 by JanetE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 I've not used CT1 or Sikaflex so can't comment but this is the one I use and haven't had any problems. Carpenter friend was impressed with it's adhesive qualities. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SOUDAL-FIX-ALL-CRYSTAL-CLEAR-SEALANT-ADHESIVE-MS-POLYMER-COMPLETELY-TRANSPARENT-/181107513495 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) On 17/09/2016 at 15:43, PeterStarck said: A little light reading? Hybrid MS Sealants.pdf @PeterStarck, Peter I was probably one of the few or perhaps the only poster to read this, but thanks: it was interesting. Précising the intro: Quote “Hybrid” sealants are of increasing interest because they can be formulated to provide the best properties of two or more families of polymeric materials while limiting their individual inherent weaknesses. For example, a polyether or polyurethane polymer can be terminated with silyl groups (related to silicone polymers) to yield a high performance sealant having many of the beneficial characteristics of both polyurethanes and silicones without many of the disadvantages. These are known as MS polymers, and such sealants are claimed to combine the strength of polyurethanes with the weathering resistance of silicones. In addition to their high performance properties, these sealants are achieving popularity due to their solvent-free and isocyanate-free nature and due to their formulation versatility that allows the customization of viscosity and early strength development for various applications. According to WP, this was first patented in 1986, so these are more wonders of applied modern chemistry. Edited September 19, 2016 by TerryE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 8 hours ago, JanetE said: Been checking prices on line and the cheapest I can get the clear CT1 is £10.98 per tube v Sikaflex £4.62 !! I should have said, my experience of Sika is in boating applications, where everything carries a 'marine' pricetag...possibly not exactly the same formulation as builders' Sika? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stones Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 9 hours ago, PeterStarck said: I've not used CT1 or Sikaflex so can't comment but this is the one I use and haven't had any problems. Carpenter friend was impressed with it's adhesive qualities. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SOUDAL-FIX-ALL-CRYSTAL-CLEAR-SEALANT-ADHESIVE-MS-POLYMER-COMPLETELY-TRANSPARENT-/181107513495 My builder uses Soudal Fix All High Tack as his weapon of choice - won't touch anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 The Soudal family of products is good quality and I use them regularly, mostly the L/E foam. 2 hours ago, Stones said: My builder uses Soudal Fix All High Tack as his weapon of choice - won't touch anything else. We are all complicated, strange creatures of our own reasoning. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alphonsox Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I need to help a friend re-attach his toilet to a tiled floor, ideally without drilling. Is CT1 or Sikaflex a suitable method of attachment ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triassic Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 I just use bog standard white silicone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alphonsox Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 It's standard silicone that has failed on the current install. I'm looking for something with a bit more stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Alphonsox said: I need to help a friend re-attach his toilet to a tiled floor, ideally without drilling. Is CT1 or Sikaflex a suitable method of attachment ? Clear CT1 for that. White silicone will tear and come away if there any movement whatsoever. DONT USE WHITE CT1! It will go custard yellow If you want a cosmetic ( coloured ) finish simply tool / baby wipe + MultiSolve spray the excess clear away and allow to cure, THEN top coat with a silicone. You simply peel that off every time it gets grotty and the CT1 stays mint for life underneath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpd Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 On 19/09/2016 at 21:21, Nickfromwales said: The Soudal family of products is good quality and I use them regularly, mostly the L/E foam. On 19/09/2016 at 18:30, Stones said: Trying to track down some of this low expansion foam, i know quite a few people use it on here but cant find a link or name of a good supplier, probably order a pack of 12 gun grade 750ml any help would be appreciated. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 @Cpd Pink grip is what I normally use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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