Trees in the way of revised plans

[patp]

We are building in our back garden. There is a track beside our house that leads from the road to the plot. The original planning application was speculative and did not use this track but involved using the existing driveway. The planners suggested moving the site from beside the house to behind it. The architect just extended our driveway so that it would be a "shared" driveway. We have now applied to use the track leading straight of the road to the plot. It has involved a new application but is a much much better design as the existing house keeps its driveway and the new house gets its own separate one. This track is a shared one with our neighbour but he rarely uses it to access the fields behind our house.

 

I have just seen, on the application, that the tree officer has done an aerial survey and noted mature trees on the Southern Boundary. They have requested a tree survey. The track in question goes between our farmer neighbour's copse of trees, containing mature oak trees and other natives, and our existing hedge and tree boundary. There are two mature trees (field maple I believe) right where we want to put the new access to the plot. They are on our boundary and belong to us.

 

Does anyone know if felling these trees (why oh why did we not forsee this?! We could have felled them months ago!) to allow the driveway access into the plot will cause us a problem? I have heard that some trees, such as oaks, do have to be saved. On a nearby application the tree survey just identified one tree worth "saving". In the back of my mind I think that some trees are considered almost as weeds. Am I right? If we offer to plant trees elsewhere on site will it help?

[ToughButterCup]

Locally, (West Lancs) the problem gets sorted at 6:30 on Sunday mornings. The inevitable fine is factored into the cost.

Simples!

[Ferdinand]

If they are not protected by TPO or other designations (eg Conservation Area), then legally you probably can (that is general info, not advice).

 

However, you risk making yourself unpopular and the Council could turn jobsworth on you. That was one to do some time ago if you were going to do it.

 

If you will need a tree survey, and they have not moved quickly to TPO, I would perhaps get a rapid opinion form a local Tree Man (ask him the questions whilst you have him out to visit about / quot for the tree survey). Remember that we are still in nesting season, which will stop your treeman in his tracks if there are any active nests. Or signs of bats.

 

Then make your best call.

 

One thing to remember, is that when it is gone, it is gone - and if you change your mind again, you will be the poorer.

[Russell griffiths]

This isn’t a lot of help really, but I think you are a bit late they should have been removed before your application went in. 

A tree survey can be geared any way you want it, your paying, tell the consultant your plans and explain you would be happy to plant replacement trees, the Arb officials at the council probably want a report to back up that they didn’t object to removing them, if they where of significance then they should have had tpo on them already. 

If you get a site meeting with the tree officer, tell him you could have removed them previously without telling anybody but thought it was better to go through the correct channels 

[ToughButterCup]

4 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

[...]

If you get a site meeting with the tree officer, tell him you could have removed them previously without telling anybody but thought it was better to go through the correct channels 

 

I always suspected it Russ. You are a very nice man, a very very nice man. Wouldn't last a minute in Lancashire. 

[ProDave]

We bought a plot with lots of trees.  Most of the site was covered in young saplings, with a few mature trees.  Before we bought the plot, I secured outline planning, and made it clear in that planning application which trees would be felled (I couldn't fell them before the application as I did not own the land)

 

I wonder if you should have a pause, perhaps even withdraw your present application, get the tree survey done, and re submit the planning stating clearly which trees will be felled.  Then you will have a clear answer.

 

Of course if one or 2 fell down before that happened .... 

[Russell griffiths]

Just now, AnonymousBosch said:

 

I always suspected it Russ. You are a very nice man, a very very nice man. Wouldn't last a minute in Lancashire. 

It’s about playing good cop, bad cop

act very nice, then do what you want. 

[ToughButterCup]

1 minute ago, Russell griffiths said:

[...]  act very nice, then do what you want. 

 

Hmm, I got it wrong then. ?

[Jeremy Harris]

I made sure I felled the horse chestnuts that were going to be in the way before I submitted our planning application.  They weren't protected by TPOs and although it caused a bit of minor annoyance with a couple of people at the time I remain convinced that taking pre-emptive action like this is the easiest way around what could end up being an expensive problem.  In our case the planners did ask for a tree survey (there had been previous applications on the site and the trees were marked on the topographic survey) but withdrew that when I told them we'd felled the trees.

[Ralph]

We offered to plant more trees than we were taking out which were mostly Alder and planning seemed happy with that approach. 

[PeterW]

Take them out now ...

 

If the tree officer has used an old aerial satellite map as they can’t be bothered to leave the office to do the survey ...... how do they know they are still there .???! ?

[patp]

1 minute ago, PeterW said:

Take them out now ...

 

If the tree officer has used an old aerial satellite map as they can’t be bothered to leave the office to do the survey ...... how do they know they are still there .???! ?

I must admit that this is the route we are leaning towards. It says on the planning site that they have used an aerial view to determine that there are trees there. The trees in question would, I think,  be hard to make out from the adjacent copse. They are big trees but we have a cherry picker and a chainsaw. We did think that the felling would look "new" but how new is new? We could, also, ask our friendly farmer to have a go with his JCB at pulling out the stump. The trees border on to a ditch which we are piping to widen the track to save labour in keep having to clear it. 

[ProDave]

Aerial views are not very good.  If you look at the pre build aerial google earth photos of our pot they were taken early in the day and the trees cast a long shadow. Unless you look very closely, it gives the impression the entire plot is covered in trees as with the low resolution it is hard to see where the tree stops and the shaddow starts.

[Russell griffiths]

I hadn’t thought about an old photo. DER THICKO. 

if you are happy they are not covered by a TPO or you are in a CONSEVATION AREA, then whip them down. 

[Jeremy Harris]

Ask yourself what they could do if you took the trees out now. I doubt there's anything anyone could do if you just took them down now, whereas you may well find that if you don't you'll end up with having to pay for a tree survey and have restrictions imposed that limit what you can do in future.

[PeterW]

8 minutes ago, patp said:

I must admit that this is the route we are leaning towards. It says on the planning site that they have used an aerial view to determine that there are trees there. The trees in question would, I think,  be hard to make out from the adjacent copse. They are big trees but we have a cherry picker and a chainsaw. We did think that the felling would look "new" but how new is new? We could, also, ask our friendly farmer to have a go with his JCB at pulling out the stump. The trees border on to a ditch which we are piping to widen the track to save labour in keep having to clear it. 

 

Nothing stopping you doing ground work on land you own today, and widening of ditches for flood prevention is widely seen as good practice given the recent weather we have had ... 

 

So I’d be the good land owner and get on with that drainage ditch work, and errr any minor tree work that may be required to enable the proper drainage to be installed .... 

[joe90]

I agree, the worst they can do is make you plant another tree!!!, I would get on with it and be a good landowner and do “maintenance”.

[patp]

Thanks all. 

 

Our farmer neighbour arrived yesterday with his handy digger and his 7 ton jcb to help us pipe the ditches either side of the proposed driveway. Unfortunately his bucket clipped a tree or two and they fell over  It was a field maple so almost a weed. It was, we estimate, about 60 feet high! There are a couple more that might as well come down as they will be on the Southern boundary and, so, apart from being a worry in high winds, will cast a lot of shade and deposit a lot of leaves in the Autumn. None of this will probably show up on an aerial survey as it is all adjacent to a dense copse of trees on the other side of the lane.

 

While all this was going on a local developer called by to chat and noticed that in our garden, that we are leaving, is a Weeping Willow. It is planted next to a natural pond on the new boundary between the old house and our new plot. He recommended that we remove it ASAP. He told us he failed to do this on an early development and was made to put in 3 metre foundations because of it. We were aware of problems with Willows but thought that we were far enough away. We decided to measure anyway. Good job we did as the root spread bridges the boundary between the two properties. Such a shame because it is beautiful and a real feature of our existing garden but we cannot risk it.

 

Pretty tired last night and more to do today.

 

[Temp]

What soil type? Removing a tree can also cause foundation problems. Take proper advice before doing anything.

 

 

[patp]

Soil is clay over gravel @Temp. Trees are nowhere near any foundations. We are at the edge of a village. The tree we needed to remove was slap bang where we wanted to put the driveway gate as it leaves the farm track and enters our site. The Weeping Willow was at the boundary between the existing house and new site. Plenty of distance from the existing house or we would not have planted it in the first place. It was, however, too close for comfort to the driveway of the new build. Sad as it was beautiful but we have room to plant another in our new garden should we want to.

 

The next thing that cropped up is one of the ditches along the edge of the farm track is blocked where it meets the road. It is our neighbour's ditch on the Southern boundary of the farm track we both share, but he was taking the opportunity to pipe it while we were doing ours. A report to Highways brought the response that they would either not attend at all (no risk to life) because the adjoining landowner should deal with it or if they would attend (it is their culvert) then it might be about six weeks. Neighbour called a jetting team out and it took nearly all day to clear it. Why it was piped at all is a mystery! It is beside a copse of trees and the roots just cause blockages. Our ditches now bypass this ditch, since we were plagued with flooding issues, and enter a culvert under the road to flow down the other side of the road.