Is this legal?

[oldkettle]

Attached is the picture of a cable connecting a summer house. It passes through the shrubs at the border. Is this allowed?

There is a further cable going further from the summer house to the greenhouse, again, the picture is attached. 

[ProDave]

It is certainly against wiring regs, typical of a DIY bodge, Marginally better than burying it 2" under the lawn, at least you can see it.

 

Where is it? 

[Cpd]

The blue cable is ( I think outdoor rated) the other one is not. If it’s a permanent fixture then it’s not legal I expect. But as pro Dave says better up in the air than two inches below ground.....

[Jeremy Harris]

I've seen worse, TBH, but I'd very definitely look at getting it replaced with a proper installation.  Given that it's a real bodge job, my main concern would be whether or not there's adequate protection provided at the supply end of the cable.  People who clearly don't know the regs, and who install bodges like this, are pretty likely to have ignored the requirement to protect that dodgy cable and the stuff that's connected to it.   That may well present a significant hazard, more so than just the risk of damage to an unprotected and unsuitable run of outdoor cable.

[oldkettle]

This is unfortunately going from our garage to the summer house and then to the greenhouse. I thought it was really dodgy. 

There is some protection in the garage but I will need to take a picture tomorrow, not sure what it is TBH. 

It is not used for much, lights in the summer house a couple of times a year, mainly lawn mower or hedge trimmer via another extension. 

 

I only remembered about it when I read a thread recently on the size of the SWA cable required to feed something remote. 

[epsilonGreedy]

Ouch. Even my temporary telephone cable to the static caravan is routed through the garden better than that.

[Jeremy Harris]

10 minutes ago, oldkettle said:

This is unfortunately going from our garage to the summer house and then to the greenhouse. I thought it was really dodgy. 

There is some protection in the garage but I will need to take a picture tomorrow, not sure what it is TBH. 

It is not used for much, lights in the summer house a couple of times a year, mainly lawn mower or hedge trimmer via another extension. 

 

I only remembered about it when I read a thread recently on the size of the SWA cable required to feed something remote. 

 

Apart from the dodgy way the wrong type of cable's been run, my particular worries would be these:

 

Is there adequate earthing at the accessible outlets in the garage and summer house? (only testing can really establish this).

 

Are the cables adequately protected against overload?

 

Is there earth leakage/residual current protection and is it functioning within the required time and current limits?

 

[epsilonGreedy]

43 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Where is it? 

 

 

France would be my guess.

[oldkettle]

Just now, JSHarris said:

 

Apart from the dodgy way the wrong type of cable's been run, my particular worries would be these:

 

Is there adequate earthing at the accessible outlets in the garage and summer house? (only testing can really establish this).

 

Are the cables adequately protected against overload?

 

Is the earth leakage/residual current protection and is it functioning within the required time and current limits?

 

I suspect only an electrician can answer these questions. For now I will just have to bear in mind anything bigger than the lawnmower needs to be watched carefully. 

[ProDave]

I strongly suspect that cable is too small for it's length for any significant load.  Most DIIYers that install that sort of thing don't understand voltage drop, earth loop impedance and disconnection times. And I bet it has not been tested in any way.

 

[oldkettle]

8 hours ago, ProDave said:

I strongly suspect that cable is too small for it's length for any significant load.  Most DIIYers that install that sort of thing don't understand voltage drop, earth loop impedance and disconnection times. And I bet it has not been tested in any way.

 

Can't argue with that either. 

 

I should probably have clarified that I didn't install any of these - came with the house. 

 

Is SWA >450mm the only way to replace these or is it actually acceptable to run a cable along the border as long as it is properly sized, tested and signed off? Would trunking help in any way? 

[Jeremy Harris]

SWA is usually the easiest solution, as it provides mechanical protection and it's resistant to sunlight, so can just be clipped along a fence or wall without the need for anything other than adequate electrical protection.  If you can ensure the run is adequately mechanically protected, then you could use NYY-J, which is very slightly easier to terminate, is rated for permanent outdoor use, but doesn't offer the degree of mechanical protection that SWA gives.  You can opt to bury SWA directly, whereas NYY-J is only OK for burial if mechanically protected, so if opting to put this run underground then SWA is the sensible choice.  There's not much in it price wise, I think.

 

The important bit is to ensure that the cable and the installations that it supplies are adequately protected against overload and possible earth faults, and that the earthing at the installations is adequate.  If this run of cable is quite long then I'd be inclined to look at running the installations in the shed/greenhouse from their own local earth rod and RCD, as TT installations.  That avoids having to export the earth from the house supply and is often a safer option if the length of cable is quite long.

[Ferdinand]

9 hours ago, oldkettle said:

This is unfortunately going from our garage to the summer house and then to the greenhouse. I thought it was really dodgy. 

There is some protection in the garage but I will need to take a picture tomorrow, not sure what it is TBH. 

It is not used for much, lights in the summer house a couple of times a year, mainly lawn mower or hedge trimmer via another extension. 

 

I only remembered about it when I read a thread recently on the size of the SWA cable required to feed something remote. 

 

What a wonderful opportunity to improve the world ?.

[oldkettle]

1 hour ago, JSHarris said:

SWA is usually the easiest solution, as it provides mechanical protection and it's resistant to sunlight, so can just be clipped along a fence or wall without the need for anything other than adequate electrical protection.  If you can ensure the run is adequately mechanically protected, then you could use NYY-J, which is very slightly easier to terminate, is rated for permanent outdoor use, but doesn't offer the degree of mechanical protection that SWA gives.  You can opt to bury SWA directly, whereas NYY-J is only OK for burial if mechanically protected, so if opting to put this run underground then SWA is the sensible choice.  There's not much in it price wise, I think.

 

The important bit is to ensure that the cable and the installations that it supplies are adequately protected against overload and possible earth faults, and that the earthing at the installations is adequate.  If this run of cable is quite long then I'd be inclined to look at running the installations in the shed/greenhouse from their own local earth rod and RCD, as TT installations.  That avoids having to export the earth from the house supply and is often a safer option if the length of cable is quite long.

Was just about to add a link I found 

https://www.electriciansforums.net/threads/laying-cable-over-ground-to-garage.104586/

It seems there is no agreement whether clipping to a fence is OK. I'd happily run a conduit just to make sure. 

 

The summer house is less than 10m away and will be even closer once we extend. The greenhouse is another 20m, but TBH I don't really need a permanent supply there. 

 

If we eventually decide to build this gym I was hoping to have in the far corner of the garden that would serve as a temporary accommodation during the extension build we'll dig a trench and put all services in it anyway - but it's on another side of the garden (i.e. right vs left) and won't help with the supply of the existing outbuildings. I am sure it will make sense to create a separate earthing for this new supply as you suggested - that would be 30m+ from the main house. 

[Jeremy Harris]

13 minutes ago, oldkettle said:

Was just about to add a link I found 

https://www.electriciansforums.net/threads/laying-cable-over-ground-to-garage.104586/

It seems there is no agreement whether clipping to a fence is OK. I'd happily run a conduit just to make sure. 

 

The summer house is less than 10m away and will be even closer once we extend. The greenhouse is another 20m, but TBH I don't really need a permanent supply there. 

 

If we eventually decide to build this gym I was hoping to have in the far corner of the garden that would serve as a temporary accommodation during the extension build we'll dig a trench and put all services in it anyway - but it's on another side of the garden (i.e. right vs left) and won't help with the supply of the existing outbuildings. I am sure it will make sense to create a separate earthing for this new supply as you suggested - that would be 30m+ from the main house. 

 

 

It's a judgement call as to whether the cable is adequately protected in that individual set of circumstances, as the regs don't clearly define when it's OK to clip a particular type of cable to a wall or fence.  My rule of thumb is based on whether something can bash into the cable easily or not.  For example, I'd not run a non-mechanically protected cable along a fence or wall where stuff could bash into it, or be leant up against it, but I'd have no problem running a length of NYY-J along a fence or wall at a height where damage was a pretty remote possibility. 

 

I'd have no problem with surface mounting SWA in pretty much any situation, except one where it might see severe impact, or regular mechanical contact, when I'd use a length of metal conduit over the exposed area.  Areas that bother me are situations like walls at the end of a drive, where a car might accidentally crush a cable, or walls or fences where things like bikes might be leant.  On fences I've clipped NYY-J underneath arris rails before now, and pretty much every car charge point that's been professionally installed in recent years will be wired with NYY-J clipped to a house or garage wall.  Some may use SWA, but from what I've seen they are the exception, rather than the rule, as it seems that many of the grant-funded installers prefer to use NYY-J (probably because it's quicker to terminate).

[Conor]

I was in a similar situation when building my brewshed. I spoke to my BC officer about it, and because it was classified as an outbuilding and not habitable space, he didn't care about it and wouldn't fall under his remit. Just said it would be installed to the appropriate standard by a competent person.

 

I ended up extending an existing RCD ring circuit from an external socket at the back of the house. Used armoured cable and buried under the deck and lawn out to the brewshed. Couple sockets and a fused spur for a 5a lighting circuit. All works well, no issues. My neighbour who's a spark okayed it. 

[Ferdinand]

Not sure whether it is a useful distinction for you, but when Ts want to play with electrics in the garden (eg power for dog incubators, mower or an extra freezer) I tend to get my electrician properly to install a double socket with RCD externally to whatever the standard is for that, which will either come off a CU or a fused spur. So I do have the ability to turn it off in voids, and if necessary my trades can do things without need access to the house interior.

 

It is now part of the standard spec, as usually is an outside tap.

 

And then, whilst encourgaging T to be sensible, I stop my responsibility formally at that point.

Ferdinand

Edited June 12, 2019 by Ferdinand
to properly install -> properly to install

[oldkettle]

25 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

 

It's a judgement call as to whether the cable is adequately protected in that individual set of circumstances, as the regs don't clearly define when it's OK to clip a particular type of cable to a wall or fence.  My rule of thumb is based on whether something can bash into the cable easily or not.  

Me main concern in our case is the branches of shrubs. These can grow fast and strong and since there is so much of those it would be difficult to spot an issue. I guess that makes metal conduit a better option. 

Edited June 12, 2019 by oldkettle

[Carrerahill]

11 hours ago, oldkettle said:

Attached is the picture of a cable connecting a summer house. It passes through the shrubs at the border. Is this allowed?

There is a further cable going further from the summer house to the greenhouse, again, the picture is attached. 

 

 

It does not satisfy BS7671 (the wiring regs) but it is not illegal - the police will not be making arrests, there are very very few things that do not comply with regs that would be considered illegal. 

 

You have many options here - this is just a summer house feed - I assume not part of building works or anything, in which case you just want to make it safe.

 

Undo it, route it through conduit, clip conduit to fence, re-connect.

Replace with SWA

Dig a trench and bury SWA.

 

Here are the sections which pertain to your situation:

 

512.2 External influences
512.2.1 Equipment shall be of a design appropriate to the situation in which it is to be used or its mode of
installation shall take account of the conditions likely to be encountered.
512.2.2 If the equipment does not, by its construction, have the characteristics relevant to the external
influences of its location, it may nevertheless be used on condition that it is provided with appropriate additional
protection in the erection of the installation. Such protection shall not adversely affect the operation of the equipment
thus protected.
512.2.3 Where different external influences occur simultaneously, they may have independent or mutual
effects and the degree of protection shall be provided accordingly.
512.2.4 The selection of equipment according to external influences is necessary not only for proper
functioning, but also for the reliability of the measures of protection for safety complying with these Regulations
generally. Measures of protection afforded by the construction of equipment are valid only for the given conditions
of external influence if the corresponding equipment specification tests are made in these conditions of external
influence.
 

 

522 SELECTION AND ERECTION OF WIRING SYSTEMS IN RELATION TO EXTERNAL
INFLUENCES
The installation method selected shall be such that protection against the expected external influences is provided
in all appropriate parts of the wiring system. Particular care shall be taken at changes in direction and where wiring
enters into equipment.
NOTE: The external influences categorised in Appendix 5 which are of significance to wiring systems are included in this
section.
522.1 Ambient temperature (AA)
522.1.1 A wiring system shall be selected and erected so as to be suitable for the highest and lowest local
ambient temperatures and so that the limiting temperature in normal operation (see Table 52.1) and the limiting
temperature in case of a fault (see Table 43.1) will not be exceeded.
522.1.2 Wiring system components, including cables and wiring accessories, shall only be installed or
handled at temperatures within the limits stated in the relevant product specification or as given by the manufacturer.
522.2 External heat sources
522.2.1 In order to avoid the effects of heat from external sources, one or more of the following methods or
an equally effective method shall be used to protect a wiring system:
(i) Shielding
(ii) Placing sufficiently far from the source of heat
(iii) Selecting a system with due regard for the additional temperature rise which may occur
(iv) Local reinforcement or substitution of insulating material.
NOTE: Heat from external sources may be radiated, conducted or convected, e.g.:
- from hot water systems
- from plant, appliances and luminaires
- from a manufacturing process
- through heat conducting materials
- from solar gain of the wiring system or its surrounding medium.
522.2.201 Parts of a cable within an accessory, appliance or luminaire shall be suitable for the temperatures
likely to be encountered, as determined in accordance with Regulation 522.1.1, or shall be provided with additional
insulation suitable for those temperatures.
522.3 Presence of water (AD) or high humidity (AB)
522.3.1 A wiring system shall be selected and erected so that no damage is caused by condensation or ingress
of water during installation, use and maintenance. The completed wiring system shall comply with the IP degree of
protection (see BS EN 60529) relevant to the particular location.
NOTE: Special considerations apply to wiring systems liable to frequent splashing, immersion or submersion.
522.3.2 Where water may collect or condensation may form in a wiring system, provision shall be made for
its escape.
522.3.3 Where a wiring system may be subjected to waves (AD6), protection against mechanical damage
shall be afforded by one or more of the methods of Regulations 522.6 to 8.
139
522.4 Presence of solid foreign bodies (AE)
522.4.1 A wiring system shall be selected and erected so as to minimise the danger arising from the ingress of
solid foreign bodies. The completed wiring system shall comply with the IP degree of protection (see BS EN 60529)
relevant to the particular location.
522.4.2 In a location where dust in significant quantity is present (AE4), additional precautions shall be taken
to prevent the accumulation of dust or other substances in quantities which could adversely affect heat dissipation
from the wiring system.
NOTE: A wiring system which facilitates the removal of dust may be necessary (see Section 529).
522.5 Presence of corrosive or polluting substances (AF)
522.5.1 Where the presence of corrosive or polluting substances, including water, is likely to give rise to
corrosion or deterioration, parts of the wiring system likely to be affected shall be suitably protected or manufactured
from a material resistant to such substances.
NOTE: Suitable protection for application during erection may include protective tapes, paints or grease.
522.5.2 Dissimilar metals liable to initiate electrolytic action shall not be placed in contact with each other,
unless special arrangements are made to avoid the consequences of such contact.
522.5.3 Materials liable to cause mutual or individual deterioration or hazardous degradation shall not be
placed in contact with each other.
522.6 Impact (AG)
522.6.1 Wiring systems shall be selected and erected so as to minimise the damage arising from mechanical
stress, e.g. by impact, abrasion, penetration, tension or compression during installation, use or maintenance.
522.6.2 In a fixed installation where impacts of medium severity (AG2) or high severity (AG3) can occur
protection shall be afforded by:
(i) the mechanical characteristics of the wiring system, or
(ii) the location selected, or
(iii) the provision of additional local or general protection against mechanical damage, or
(iv) any combination of the above.
NOTE: Examples are areas where the floor is likely to be penetrated and areas used by forklift trucks.
522.6.3 Not used
522.6.4 The degree of protection of electrical equipment shall be maintained after installation of the cables
and conductors.
522.6.201 A cable installed under a floor or above a ceiling shall be run in such a position that it is not liable to
be damaged by contact with the floor or ceiling or their fixings.
A cable passing through a joist within a floor or ceiling construction or through a ceiling support (e.g. under
floorboards), shall:
(i) be installed at least 50 mm measured vertically from the top, or bottom as appropriate, of the joist or batten,
or
(ii) comply with Regulation 522.6.204.
522.6.202 A cable installed in a wall or partition at a depth of less than 50 mm from a surface of the wall or
partition shall:
(i) be installed in a zone within 150 mm from the top of the wall or partition or within 150 mm of an angle formed
by two adjoining walls or partitions. Where the cable is connected to a point, accessory or switchgear on any
surface of the wall or partition, the cable may be installed in a zone either horizontally or vertically, to the
point, accessory or switchgear. Where the location of the accessory, point or switchgear can be determined
from the reverse side, a zone formed on one side of a wall of 100 mm thickness or less or partition of
100 mm thickness or less extends to the reverse side, or
(ii) comply with Regulation 522.6.204.
Where indent (i) but not indent (ii) applies, the cable shall be provided with additional protection by means of an
RCD having the characteristics specified in Regulation 415.1.1.
140
522.6.203 Irrespective of its buried depth, a cable concealed in a wall or partition, the internal construction of
which includes metallic parts, other than metallic fixings such as nails, screws and the like, shall:
(i) be provided with additional protection by means of an RCD having the characteristics specified in Regulation
415.1.1, or
(ii) comply with Regulation 522.6.204.
For a cable installed at a depth of less than 50 mm from the surface of a wall or partition the requirements of
Regulation 522.6.202(i) shall also apply.
522.6.204 For the purposes of Regulation 522.6.201(ii), Regulation 522.6.202(ii) and Regulation 522.6.203(ii),
a cable shall:
(i) incorporate an earthed metallic covering which complies with the requirements of these Regulations for
a protective conductor of the circuit concerned, the cable complying with BS 5467, BS 6724, BS 7846,
BS 8436 or BS EN 60702-1, or
(ii) be installed in earthed conduit complying with BS EN 61386-21 and satisfying the requirements of these
Regulations for a protective conductor, or
(iii) be enclosed in earthed trunking or ducting complying with BS EN 50085-2-1 and satisfying the requirements
of these Regulations for a protective conductor, or
(iv) be provided with mechanical protection against damage sufficient to prevent penetration of the cable by
nails, screws and the like, or
(v) form part of a SELV or PELV circuit meeting the requirements of Regulation 414.4.
522.7 Vibration (AH)
522.7.1 A wiring system supported by or fixed to a structure or equipment subject to vibration of medium
severity (AH2) or high severity (AH3) shall be suitable for such conditions, particularly where cables and cable
connections are concerned.
522.7.2 For the fixed installation of suspended current-using equipment, e.g. luminaries, connection shall be
made by cable with flexible cores. Where no vibration or movement can be expected, cable with non-flexible cores
may be used.
522.8 Other mechanical stresses (AJ)
522.8.1 A wiring system shall be selected and erected to avoid during installation, use or maintenance,
damage to the sheath or insulation of cables and their terminations. The use of any lubricants that can have a
detrimental effect on the cable or wiring system are not permitted.
522.8.2 Where buried in the structure, a conduit system or cable ducting system, other than a pre-wired
conduit assembly specifically designed for the installation, shall be completely erected between access points before
any cable is drawn in.
522.8.3 The radius of every bend in a wiring system shall be such that conductors or cables do not suffer
damage and terminations are not stressed.
522.8.4 Where conductors or cables are not supported continuously due to the method of installation, they
shall be supported by suitable means at appropriate intervals in such a manner that the conductors or cables do not
suffer damage by their own weight.
522.8.5 Every cable or conductor shall be supported in such a way that it is not exposed to undue mechanical
strain and so that there is no appreciable mechanical strain on the terminations of the conductors, account being
taken of mechanical strain imposed by the supported weight of the cable or conductor itself.
NOTE: Consumer unit meter tails are included in the requirements of this regulation.
522.8.6 A wiring system intended for the drawing in or out of conductors or cables shall have adequate means
of access to allow this operation.
522.8.7 A wiring system buried in a floor shall be sufficiently protected to prevent damage caused by the
intended use of the floor.
522.8.8 Not used
522.8.9 Not used
141
522.8.10 Except where installed in a conduit or duct which provides equivalent protection against mechanical
damage, a cable buried in the ground shall incorporate an earthed armour or metal sheath or both, suitable for use
as a protective conductor. The location of buried cables shall be marked by cable covers or a suitable marker tape.
Buried conduits and ducts shall be suitably identified. Buried cables, conduits and ducts shall be at a sufficient depth
to avoid being damaged by any reasonably foreseeable disturbance of the ground.
NOTE: BS EN 61386-24 is the standard for underground conduits.
522.8.11 Cable supports and enclosures shall not have sharp edges liable to damage the wiring system.
522.8.12 A cable or conductors shall not be damaged by the means of fixing.
522.8.13 Cables, bus-bars and other electrical conductors which pass across expansion joints shall be so
selected or erected that anticipated movement does not cause damage to the electrical equipment.
522.8.14 No wiring system shall penetrate an element of building construction which is intended to be load
bearing unless the integrity of the load-bearing element can be assured after such penetration.
522.9Presenceofforaand/ormouldgrowth(AK)
522.9.1 Where the conditions experienced or expected constitute a hazard (AK2), the wiring system shall be
selected accordingly or special protective measures shall be adopted.
NOTE 1: An installation method which facilitates the removal of such growths may be necessary (see Section 529).
NOTE 2: Possible preventive measures are closed types of installation (conduit or channel), maintaining distances to plants and
regular cleaning of the relevant wiring system.
522.10 Presence of fauna (AL)
522.10.1 Where conditions experienced or expected constitute a hazard (AL2), the wiring system shall be
selected accordingly or special protective measures shall be adopted, for example, by:
(i) the mechanical characteristics of the wiring system, or
(ii) the location selected, or
(iii) the provision of additional local or general protection against mechanical damage, or
(iv) any combination of the above.
522.11 Solar radiation (AN) and ultraviolet radiation
522.11.1 Where significant solar radiation (AN2) or ultraviolet radiation is experienced or expected, a wiring
system suitable for the conditions shall be selected and erected or adequate shielding shall be provided. Special
precautions may need to be taken for equipment subject to ionising radiation.
NOTE: See also Regulation 522.2.1 dealing with temperature rise.
522.12 Seismic effects (AP)
522.12.1 The wiring system shall be selected and erected with due regard to the seismic hazards of the location
of the installation.
522.12.2 Where the seismic hazards experienced are low severity (AP2) or higher, particular attention shall be
paid to the following:
(i) The fixing of wiring systems to the building structure
(ii) The connections between the fixed wiring and all items of essential equipment, e.g. safety services, shall be
selected for their flexible quality.
522.13 Movement of air (AR)
522.13.1 See Regulation 522.7, Vibration (AH), and Regulation 522.8, Other mechanical stresses (AJ).
522.14 Nature of processed or stored materials (BE)
522.14.1 See Section 527, Selection and erection of wiring systems to minimise the spread of fre and
Section 422, Precautions where particular risks of fre exist.
522.15 Building design (CB)
522.15.1 Where risks due to structural movement exist (CB3), the cable support and protection system
employed shall be capable of permitting relative movement so that conductors and cables are not subjected to
excessive mechanical stress.
142
522.15.2 For a flexible structure or a structure intended to move (CB4), a flexible wiring system shall be used.
 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

33 minutes ago, oldkettle said:

Me main concern in our case is the branches of shrubs. These can grow fast and strong and since there is so much of those it would be difficult to spot an issue. I guess that makes metal conduit a better option. 

 

Galvanised conduit may be a real pain to run along that fence, plus it's not easy to pull cables through long runs of the stuff.  If it were me I'd just cleat SWA to the fence and perhaps add a batten alongside it to give a bit of added impact and rub protection from stray branches. 

 

As to legality, whilst it's true that the wiring regs are only guidance, and not the law, this is a Part P notifiable job (in England and Wales) and failure to comply with building regs may be unlawful.

[Ed Davies]

2 hours ago, oldkettle said:

Me main concern in our case is the branches of shrubs. These can grow fast and strong and since there is so much of those it would be difficult to spot an issue. I guess that makes metal conduit a better option. 

 

Somebody lopping the shrubs could also find the situation illuminating, briefly.

[oldkettle]

For completeness, this is a connection  inside the garage. 

[ProDave]

Yes, not an RDC to be seen.

[Cpd]

Errr, not sure I follow, the blue cable is not shown on this last photo and where do they both start ? I’m not an electrician so I may have missed the point ?

[oldkettle]

34 minutes ago, Cpd said:

Errr, not sure I follow, the blue cable is not shown on this last photo and where do they both start ? I’m not an electrician so I may have missed the point ?

The cable in question is the light grey one that goes down from the switch. This picture is only to show where the connection originates. As @ProDave confirmed, no RCD. I should have looked it up earlier of course, don't think I saw a single one anywhere in the house. 

Correction : there is one on the main switchboard, marked as ring mains power. 

Edited June 15, 2019 by oldkettle