ToughButterCup

OK, I take the hint. I'll submit my summary to the often disconcertingly incisive scrutiny of SWMBO, make amendments and post it for comment.

My motive for drawing attention is entirely selfish. Every time I think I've finished the thread summary, a new cockerel crows, the new one wakes the others, and us hens are left in the lurch again.

Right then. Is this just about done wrt H+S or is there more....?

And the acid test of deep-learning is knowing why, and being able to articulate, why you don't accept the arguments put by others. That's why this thread is, frankly, riveting.

Well @Steptoe, I see the opposite. I see structured, polite, sometimes uncomfortable, but almost always useful discussion. I see engagement. I see help for bewildered self builders. To get this quality of debate elsewhere I'd have to pay a good deal of money.

Click. At last, at very long last. Thank God for a drop of rain, then..... Ian

To the extent that CDM2015 affects self builders, I hope to remedy that by providing a referenced precis of the conclusions. In doing so, there is little point in following every twist of the debate set out here. To do this thread justice I have had to read and re-read it (all of it) at least half a dozen times. And I expect to do so a few more times in the near future. That's the problem with asynchronous communication: and also the rationale for providing carefully drafted summaries. They help readers maintain the original focus.

@MikeSharp01, I hadn't given VAT a thought. In my view it's a straight rebuild (of the Piggery), and so not reclaimable. Hadn't give a moment's thought to the contents, though. I have a condensate drain in the Piggery already, and sorting it out in the house won't be an issue. I need to get a design for the underground ducting version, and a couple of different internal designs knocked up too.

Oooooh.

I could not make a more powerful argument for the art, the effort, the energy needed to make complex high-stakes information simple to read and understand. Unless, of course there's a conflict of interest: and that's been alluded to often in this thread.

It's the obvious answer, but PD rights have been withdrawn (as is common).

Yes, I think I could @SteamyTea, in the same way as houses have external ASHPs.

@ragg987, you have just mapped the next part of my impending 40 year traipse round the MVHR desert. Thanks. '...cutting out the supplied foil-backed fibre insulation and fitting in Armaflex ...' Ian

It's as bad as having children. Lying awake at night waiting for the front door to slam - the reassuring door slam of the self-obsessed teen - at least that puts an end to the worry. Sometimes.

I need to go round the MVHR 'desert' for another 40 years don't I? Ian

@SteamyTea, the house doesn't have room for the MVHR unit - well it does, but it takes up too much space overall. @jack, is this what you mean? @Ferdinand, [gap] nothing much for a while: bike storage, concreted base for an outside work area. But my cunning long term plan is to link the two buildings (four piles already exist between both ends of the piggery and the house so we can link the two buildings) Hmmmmmm. Ian

The harsh interpretation is that we cocked up. The kinder version is that the design evolved: in a haphazard way yes, but it evolved, evolved I tell you! The question: how do I arrange the MVHR ducting between two buildings? The Answer: dig a trench, line it with concrete, and shove the pipes in with as much insulation in as you can (wrap it it in some spare EPS300?) The excuses first: We came too late to ebuild to start our planning with passivhaus in mind. It took us a full year to realise the implications that choosing MVHR would have. It took a further few months to realise that we needed to site the plant room in our piggery. Have a look at this. The Piggery (the plant room) is on the right. There are two six inch ducts and a spare ready for the MVHR unit. The house slab (on the left) shows the ducts entering the heated envelope. The Piggery will also be heated to PH standards. Each of the ducts has two 45 rest-bends underground and have been capped off - until I stop sucking my teeth wondering how to bodge this one. Problem: how to duct the in and out airflows underground without causing condensation My guess at an answer is something along the lines: run a concrete-lined trench between the two buildings to contain the pipes. Lag the Hell out of them. Make sure I can inspect the trench to check for water ingress, and make sure I can drain any condensate out of the MVHR pipes themselves. Maybe even make sure I can visually inspect the inside of the MVHR pipes? My fingertips say that this last bit is desirable, but probably not essential. My worry is that we will have to insulate the pipes as they come out of the trench and return to each building, and that will have to be insulated just as well as the rest of the pipe. In other words, the trench will be the easy bit. I can just see myself under the foundations lagging the pipes right up to the bottom of the strip foundation. Still, if I can't take a joke, I shouldn't have started this should I?

Sure? I bet @Onoff has a spare secret bathroom somewhere. I mean, he must have hasn't he?

Ditto.

Thank you very much for this post. The power (P) of a good graphic (G) writ large. For the first time in my life I have realised that I can go round the graphic substituting 230 for each instance of V. Only took 63 years....

As a lecturer and Hall Warden (for mercifully only one year), I had to deal with this sort of issue all the time. I don't think there's a university town anywhere in the UK which doesn't suffer from the same issue. First I'd heed @JSHarris advice, and then when you've finally flipped (Pete (above) took the words out of my mouth)... ClampIt And Co are the waytogo

I hope this post doesn't push us too far off topic, but...... Some of these are a bit over the top, but suitably adapted might do well in your context.... Have you considered a couple of these chained to some heavy counterweights?

I regard this thread as one of the most important on this discussion group. For all of us. Mid way through the discussion I had a good old moan about the poor way in which relevant information has been presented at National Level. Given my professional background, its time to put up or shut up. I intend to spend a good chunk of time over the next few days re-presenting the content of this thread in a more easily digestible format. Before I post it, I'd like to circulate the content to people who have posted in this thread to make sure I have represented their views accurately. I will also have a go at presenting the core information in a simplified graphical or other format. I'd particularly welcome constructive criticism from H+S Subject Matter Experts. If any of you read this, please PM me and I'll send you an an advanced copy of our draft text, while keeping your H+S SME status confidential. An important word on my status as Admin. The term Admin is sometimes confused with Expert. I am definitely not an expert in anything except perhaps in delivering complex content online. I am especially keen to make H+S accessible, simple and clear. Since that's exactly what I did for a variety of subjects over many years in my professional career, and as there's a slight pause in our build, I thought I ought to just do it.

Congratulations, Grandad. And Grandma. When do the kids move in? Ian

When we think that we remember the support we get from you all. For which, thanks!