puntloos

Depends on their size I suppose? Looking at https://www.gledhill.net/products/alternative-energy/stainlesslite-heat-pump/ - and speaking to the manufacturer, they say it should fit fine in 647x750 (pipes/gizmos sticking out in front) lifted 100 off the ground. That leaves about 530(h)x650x650 right above it. Alternatively, we do have the actual under-stairs cupboard (but with the challenge that the pocket door needs to be able to close!) Note: I left *zero* wall between the kitchen unit and the cylinder. This will surely mean that kitchen unit will be warmer-than-normal but as long as nothing heat-sensitive is stored in such a cupboard that should be okay? Or? Define 'short' really. Sometimes I treat myself to one big bath (1h?) and a longish shower afterwards (15m?) (sorry eco-police.. it's rare, I promise). True. Ha, no idea, I assumed PV (being Photo Voltaic) meant they don't also do hot water, but in short sure, if my panels generate water as well then might-as-well?

@oldkettleand @SteamyTea advising me on hot water. I've got a crack team here! Agreed that the straight run has some benefits, frankly I can't even quite remember why we figured moving the door towards the livingroom was better. Shuffleshuffle. @SteamyTea so you're suggesting a standing cylinder in that cupboard, perhaps lifted 40cm off the floor so it can be accessed easily?

Meaning in-wall room? or in the actual cupboard? with 2700 ceiling height, I'd say theoretically 'yes'..

https://www.telford-group.com/product/tempest-heat-pump-indirect- That one? 400L? 500L? And would it be OK in the loft, ideally on its side? (so under the eaves)?

With a hot water return the actual location is a bit of a non-issue, is it not? I'm thinking indeed the manifolds might be cleverly fitted in the newly created space:

Can't argue with someone with your nickname on this subject. I suppose one key question for me is primarily where to store the "gubbins" - things like manifolds for UFH and MVHR, and the actual cylinder. I always assumed: - Connecting the ASHP 'warm water line' very close to the actual monobloc will be important (long lines seem harder, both for insulation and just transport reasons) - Connecting the cylinder close to that connection seems like a good idea. - Same for UFH manifolds. So, that location was pretty much the optimal place. But would it perhaps be almost as good to have the UFH manifolds be there, but the hot water storage in the loft? I'm sure it will require more pipework but will it be "systematically worse" or just takes a bit more effort by the M&E guys?

Also one dumb question perhaps but the GRP fibreglass itself, how thick is that? Or is it 'included' in the OSB it's attached to? A few mm wouldn't matter but if it becomes meaningful I'm sure people could complain..

I guess for ASHP-provided water the water is cooler so you need more? True, although for the viessmann there is some gubbins on top of it, but in principle agreed, not a ton of access needed. Still, walling it into a cupboard is a bit of a bet that indeed you don't need to touch it..

Eh. 250 is pretty generous, but still, the house is pretty large-ish at this point so certainly if some big family wants to move in it'd be severely lacking so "something" would have to be done. Perhaps a bad assumption on my part. I assumed upgrading water storage with an extra cylinder isn't hard... Heh, well both people recommending this one didn't actually sell the device.. the main "pro" reasons were that having the cylinder and "hp parts" (not the compressors of course, the monobloc is in the garden) together would be a fairly nice way to solve a few problems surrounding installation and more importantly heat loss. Also the device does have a hot water return as well as cooling function which IMO is fairly important. Where would you put the cylinder then? Loft? OK but then there's a bit of wasted space (still, prodave's idea might just work..)

Very interesting idea... this might actually fix quite a few things. If anything, nothing stopping us from putting the ASHP where we previously discussed, and indeed have it accessible if the pocket doors are closed.. Might have to ponder this option deeper..

It's 222L, so sufficient for 3 people, but the house indeed is large, we were thinking if needed a secondary cylinder could go in the loft? What to do with the extra depth then? This was somewhat debated when talking to heating guy. The device should be pretty much silent (maybe a pump) and pretty well-insulated (also compared to the hob, the amount of heat it puts out is not a big porblem). So I agree with the 'sense' but I'm not sure there really is a big downside? My only concern is indeed the kitchen space is sorely needed so I'd prefer to indeed have a more 'kitchen-y' use, but in a way it can be recessed out of the way, if only we could provide proper access to it.. Nah it's perhaps an unfortunate angle but the side of the fridge is dark, it's not inset. It would impact a car though Hmm something semi-movable (like a fridge) might indeed work there, so it can be rolled out of the way if access to the ASHP is needed.. Ha. No.

Take a look at the attached image, in particular the weird kitchen corner, which is 647x600. What "clever" thing shall I do with this corner, and where to store the ASHP A bunch of notes - The viesmann 222 ASHP temporarily put in the middle of the room is 60x60, and could actually fit in that corner but then suddenly you can't put any cupboard in front of it - Also, there's a walkway above that spot, so I guess pipes would have to go up-and-over the pocket door into the stair cupboard - The ASHP could fit in that stairs cupboard perhaps? - The door (to utility) can be anywhere. - Utility ideally should remain empty (since we could make a garage out of it, it has sort-of sufficient size, 5x3) My ideal solution is to have some type of cabinet that conceals the ashp, but leaves it accessible for maintenance, but perhaps a 1200mm deep cabinet exists?

Meaning, I couldn't get a roof terrace without further planning permission, right? Or would it 'pretty much never' be allowed? (privacy of neighbours?) I suppose "in general" I tend to try and prepare for such eventualities, so at least have the fixings ready to attach handrails at some point? Or would "safety compliant" mean a massive increase in cost? (I suppose the stairs TO the roof would have requirements?)

Fair enough... I'm sure it all depends as per usual.. anyway I was mostly joking about my complaint, in a way it's probably a sensible statement to say "if you don't understand it don't try to build it" as well ?

So two semi-separate issues but. Current design: <inside> 15mm Plaster Board i Joist 18 mm OSB Vapour Barrier Insulation 200mm 18mm OSB GRP <outside> My 2 questions: 1/ Safety: without railings the roof is somewhat dangerous for anyone under 18yo. (and I have a 3yo). Of course, securing the access stair/rooflight should be fairly doable incl alarmed etc, but I was wondering: I have to stick to ridge height as per planning permissions. Are handrails/balusters acceptable anyway, or do they count towards the ridge height? 2/ Slightly slanted GRP. So as above I'd like people to be able to walk on the top floor but would that be a problem? And can we slant the roof somehow to prevent rain from staying? Current design: (big skylight is all the way to ground floor, the small skylight doubles as access to the roof

Ha, my complaint about all you guys is that nobody summarises the 'final conclusion'. Post 1: "I'm doing abc, xyz, solution yada yada" Post 2: "You should do thisandthat" Post 3: "And this" Post 4: "Don't forget somethingorother" Post 5: "THANKS ALL" Where me, as an absolute beginner often can't quite piece together the actual bestest roof (for one, the topic started with GRP, which I was planning to opt for, but all you guys are doing EPDM ) @Temp: do you agree that: GRP Fibreglass OSB 18mm 200mm PIR insulation A Vapor Layer OSB 18mm Joists I beam 15mm Plasterboard. Would make a pretty good roof? ?

Awesome discussion. Just a few thoughts: My stresses are different than my partner's - she worries about hard to predict edge cases that will somehow cause us to fail outright, effectively leaving us with semi empty bank accounts and no house to show for it. I'm much more relaxed about total failure especially since we are reasonably financially secure to do it. Recommended buffers in place and all that, but I do worry that I will not be able to spend enough time on it and that I will regret things and beat myself up over my 'laziness' And that laziness especially comes through on the oft-repeated "problems with trades". I do worry that I will miss things I will bang my head against the wall for. This is why I've been talking about contractors and advisors quite a bit, we have already spoken to a bunch of people for this, but well, can't pay them to care, and hard to find people who are passionate (they exist of course but hard to know who is just putting on an act to sell me..) Not me, at least not in a 'problematic amount', primarily my partner. How did you distinguish? Any tips? Rules of thumb? Describes me reasonably well. Optimistic, and "project management" is a skill close to my day-to-day job skill. As for @nod's "Don’t worry about something that you can’t do anything about" - ah but we're worrying we should have worried! META! @mike2016 - FMBuilders sounds a very helpful tip, will certainly look there! @joth - we've debated the dayjob/sabbatical thing. Ha, with covid I've saved up so many days I could probably work half days for months in a row at this point. but yeah, nervous energy of things falling into place, and plenty of stories around things showing up late here on buildhub.. I've been lax about the time this all takes, but covid is only a partial excuse.. tough. Ha thankfully we have zero binding the the current house, never actually lived there, really only the location that made us buy it. But yeah it is destroying 'value' which would be a shame in some ways. Financially eh, there's always the chance of losing more than you'd like, but - assuming the tendering comes back at-or-near our estimates (and we had a QS do these) we should not have to sell organs as long as no "stack" of bad luck hits us. Could we survive the UK dropping to WHO tariffs on trade? Probably.. but that AND a stock market crash AND getting fired because my company figures out I'm crap.. yeah.. Never enough cash but the recommended buffer is in place. Well, I'll be close (house is 5m away) but can't just up and leave from work.. and even if I could, I'm not a builder so there's only so much common sense I can have. But wouldn't that be pre-agreed? What type of things can they bring up during build?. I guess stuff like "there's a well under your house, do you want to fill it or .. " could have a cheap and an expensive solution.. Good point, thank you Yeah, I don't think I'll be away away but not really on hand anytime. Doesn't video calling help? Thanks ?

So - I have the plot, I have the planning permission, I have the detail design (still polishing somewhat), tendering to start shortly but I think I have the money.. We will soon have to make the final final "let's do it" decision, and we are wondering how you handled that one! What were your worries and did they happen or not? What were your reasons to think that building was better than just buying 'on rightmove'? How did you 'insure' bad things would not happen, e.g.; Evil people Builder going bust (and not insured?) Builder/Trade being crap at their job and having to tear everything down to fix it Builder unethical in some way asking $$$ Something holding up the build majorly House catching fire during build Brexit, Covid, Rain during pour.. Critical deliveries (say: windows) delayed for months Disappointment House turning out to be crap 1 day after receiving the key House being worth 30% less than the money you put in Impossible to heat, cool, noise.. whatever ... Tell me some stories - how did you arrive at the conclusion this all was a good idea, and were you right, wrong, sortof?

Well, in our current design (new build) my architect already left the downstairs walls to be 200mm, so I am just wondering whatever is the best option there. I don't necessarily need to get the maximum-at-any-cost but e.g. 75 block - 50 "insulation"(open for suggestions?) - 75 block might work? But if it is block, am I making my life harder wrt wiring/services - power sockets, lamps, etc etc? Not sure what you mean? But yes just 'standard' walls are the default idea, but the very outer layer, I think there are things such as 'absorbing paint' or (purely theoretical, I doubt it'd look or feel nice) I could apply a layer of cork etc. Well the livingroom is fairly large (8x5) so the floor probably has to be reasonably absorbent but also allow UFH- as you said, carpet would work but I don't think we want that. The aesthetic of tiles or maybe even hardwood - so basically something hard & fairly shiny - would be our preference but of course that echoes and is also not great to hit your head on. My current default is amtico since I understand it has somewhat good audio properties and somewhat good UFH properties but happy to have other materials suggested 2 use cases: 1/ Someone playing a movie in the main livingroom downstairs, sleeping upstairs. It will go LOUD. (I have a serious cinema system, and a male child who might be tempted to turn it up to 11 to impress friends) 2/ Kid bedroom and parent bedrooms should not be heard, and should not hear the outside.

... hey @moonshine - any updates? I find myself in a similar situation where as someone told me recently - if you add the word 'acoustic' to something the price jumps by 30% for the same thing. But in general: - When I'm trying to find buildup suggestions for internal walls I tend to get drawings for stud walls (in particular stud-air-stud), but no block walls of the same composition. Is block-air-block worse or better than stud-based? - Materials to apply to walls? - Do you even want to absorb? Except for cinemas you don't want dead rooms either! - Ceiling buildup? Would love some pointers where to research or advice. Ideally nothing with 'acoustic' in the title

One interesting thing that I noticed is that very very VERY few companies speak about a double block wall. All 'pro' sound insulating walls seem to be timber/stud, but most companies do say "more weight is better" so surely block is better as a principle?

I'm still somewhat surprised people are so strong about two dishwashers. I can kinda see the point, sure. Not having to "immediately" pull stuff out of the diswasher has a benefit, but the amount of "work" to be done in the kitchen doesn't change that meaningfully does it? It's just you can delay picking stuff out of the thing a bit? Am I missing something?

To be clear I assume you are talking about the normal walls, not ceiling: Not bad. That should be pretty decent. But the 'room inside a room' design effectively is 2 walls, could I perhaps do 2x75mm block with a 75mm airgap between them, or would that be worse?

I'll revive this 2016 topic (ha). But I have a similarish question, primarily shielding downstairs livingroom from upstairs, but in-between rooms upstairs still important (they just won't have a serious home cinema ) - House is going to be standard masonry build - Internal walls completely open for discussion, within reason, but perhaps max 350mm, ideally more like 250 total width? Assuming solid block? How to build it up? I think perhaps the double stud might be better instead? (why not double block?). That site is unable to tell me actual wall widths for some reason. Sigh. How do you include sockets? what about the horizontal service void? - Ceiling - let's assume a standard block and beam ceiling - 220mm and 200 void. Same story really, how much 'thickness' should I allocate beyond the standard brick/beam? I'll probably safely fill most of the void with "some material" but of course there will be things in the void. Light fittings, a projector screen in one spot.. etc

Welllll.. *maybe*. Look, fact is that this entire awesome forum is full of people who surely have their weaknesses and gaps in knowledge (or at least I do) but are designing super custom, eagle-eyed eye for detail houses. That level of detail will be wasted on people who have not spent that much time. If I were someone like that, I would look for 'tell tale signs'. While selling my house I would make sure to mention that this house is exceptionally well-crafted and give a few examples. Someone with 'bags of money' would certainly be positively influenced by that, but also still check for things that they often get told about objectively much crappier houses than 'ours'. My real estate agent would speak about service voids and acoustic isolation and hot return. a competing house's real estate agent would point at in-ceiling speakers and underfloor zones everywhere. THEY would make a point of those things, and for you to have zero answer would not be ideal