Spinny

In our build the architect included a continuous row of celcon blocks around the inner leaf at insulation and concrete slab level (your screed level) to provide some insulation in the inner leaf between foundation/footing level and wall above. I think some people also build the inner leaf entirely from celcon blocks. I think our builder put the 25mm PIR around the perimeter and then used the underfloor insulation butted up to the edge of it to hold it in place - simply a matter of practicality to hold the edge insulation in place for our concrete pour. Think it may help if you can say whether you are doing new build or retrofit, and to describe the makeup of your wall structure - concrete block, celcon block, stone, sipps etc.

Our smoke in the hall used to go off whenever someone did a fry up and with a high ceiling you couldn’t reach we could be found opening the front door and madly flapping a tea towel at it. ok new kitchen should be different I suppose with a powerful extractor etc. But there are times people might end up with some smoke in the house - even if just the 437 candles on my birthday cake :0) so my experience all alarms have proven to be false and a real PITA when someone’s house or car alarm kicks off at 4am. Ok unlikely to be burning the divorce papers in the waste bin at 4am. lots of stuff in today’s world is unnecessary, we used to live just fine without mobile phones or Amazon deliveries or cars that tell us where they are parked. But people can’t help fiddling with stuff ‘just because you can’. Work in an engineering company and you’ll find they are all messing with their cars and stuff at home. Some nutter called Musk seems to think cars need to drive themselves and we should put life on Mars. Each to their own madness.

However what you also want is the ability to silence the alarm remotely.

Don't forget that when the doors are stacked you have the full weight of all doors in one place. We gave the door weights to our SE to confirm all would be ok.

I have put in 47mm back boxes everywhere for the light switches, and a number with backboxes twice the size of the cover plate to provide plenty of room for switch/dimmer modules. Despite this my sparky seems to belong to the abstract spaghetti school of smart module wiring. I find it frustrating how the manufacturers are so focussed on the retrofit market, there seems to be a big gap to be filled with products for people doing new builds and total renovations. Having smart things on show is all very well, but I do think the ideal smart home would have the devices hidden from view. Nobody seems to have worked out how and where to integrate in presence/motion detectors etc. Lots of things in white plastic boxes only. I like things like the Sensative strips that are invisible when installed. Have you integrated smoke and heat alarms into HA ? Because the England regs require wired detectors which is a PITA and seems to preclude all the smart home solutions that are almost universally retrofit battery powered and don't meet regs. Also are you using anything for smart control to turn the water mains supply or gas supply on/off - such as the robots that will turn a lever arm valve ? Are you using LED strips under your kitchen counter tops, and if so what type, and are they surface mounted or in routed channels ? (It is amazing just how many lights you can end up with. I have 8 dining spots+9 sitting spots+3 entry spots+10 kitchen spots+5 pendants + 7 led strips + 3 under cabinet pucks + 3 accent spots + 3 picture lights + 1 wall light = 52 individual lights in one open plan room, with another 11 external lights (6 soffit, 4 wall, 1 step). I guess I am as mad as mad jack mcmadman from madsville.)

Aluminium Bifolds 3.5m wide and 2.4m tall, top hung, stack can be positioned to either side of opening when open. Fixed to timber and steel beam above. (The timber was added because we changed the choice of doors and the height of the opening had to be reduced to suit.) Best to have professionally fitted by careful, conscientious and experienced fitters. Getting the threshold position correct is critical if you want something close to a level threshold, so knowing where the finished floor level will be. PROCESS: Prepare opening, survey measurement of opening and marking of reference level markings around the area, detailed drawings with tight opening size, bifold manufacturing size etc, carefully check drawings and amend as necessary then sign off drawings, send to manufacture, professional delivery and installation, test and acceptance. Beware the limited accuracy of laser levels. The company claimed floor level had been changed between survey and fit but this was nonsense. Their lasered levels differed by 11mm over 9m from survey to fit because laser levels clearly not reliable/calibrated. My water levels showed they were wrong. So buy a water level and mark careful reference levels. Make sure the fixing methods and positions are defined and there is going to be solid material in the right positions and alignment for the frame to be fixed to. Insist on careful preparation, inspection and checking of the opening - builders lie and cover up - thus in our case the first fitting visit was abortive.

Is that Artex or similar on the ceiling, and do you have a plan for dealing with the ceiling ? Are you planning on putting in some extractor ventilation ? In the ceiling ? Or is the block wall an outside wall ? Is there somewhere to duct it out ? Downlights to go in the ceiling ?

Yes, another sharp practice in the black arts of the tradesman. I thought I was getting a landscaper with 15 years experience - what I actually got was a 20 year old with negligble experience and a mobile phone.

Looks good. What wall switches are you using with your smart lighting ? I have still to buy some retractive ones and am interested in what others are using. Are you automating any electric roller blinds ? I will be starting to move to Home Assistant soon as I find different manufacturers are still implementing certain features in incompatible ways. For example I am using some sonoff relays, but they have implemented the detached mode in a way that hides switch presses from non sonoff ecosystems. I have implemented a work around but HA seems like it should be the bees knees and avoid such things. What are you using for presence sensing and do you have eny experience of the extent to which it may be usable through plaster board ?

How old is the sewer pipe, what is it made of, and has it been inspected ? I have watched my own neighbours build over their drains including their drain chamber and all rodding points. In my opinion a very stupid thing to do despite it being permissable. Just building over a pipe and providing all existing accessible chambers, rodding points etc remain fully accessible seems more reasonable. However as my neighbours discovered clay pipes that have not been disturbed for 80 years are not too robust, they had pipes that were found to be cracked, and multiple others that cracked during the building work. Clay pipes can have hairline cracks that can open up and parts of the pipe give way. So if you were going to build over I'd have thought you would want to be 110% certain that buried pipe was going to be good for at least another century. Therefore replacing the existing pipe seems adviseable, certainly I wouldn't want to build over a clay pipe.

Ta for comments. Steel is not boarded over yet. So yes will be insulating between it and the p/board. It supports an RSJ across the inner leaf above my bifold opening. So in theory it sits in the warm zone inside my wall insulation, and underneath my warm roof. But of course it has cold rising up the column from foundation level and nobody thought about insulating pads and stuff when it went in, so an unfortunate vertical thermal bridge I suppose. Have a light switch to go in too and will be using a 47mm box to accomodate a smart home relay module, probably got about 60mm between steel and back of P/B. Can you get surface pattress boxes with an adjustable lug ? (Just in case my spirit level isn't working that day.)

So I am looking to position a metal back box for a double socket just in front of a steel box column. Not sure of the thickness of the steel - I guess maybe 8mm or 6mm. As it is a steel column rising from foundation level it is or feels cold to the touch, so I plan to insert a layer of insulation e.g. 10mm XPS board between the back box and the steel to heat insulate the back box. What size Techscrew should I use to screw the back box into the steel column ? How do I insulate the screw to stop it cold bridging the XPS insulation to make the back box cold ?

I did ask chatGPT to produce a 2d diagram showing the lux distribution for a set of downlight positions based on their specs. It did the job, though how precisely accurate its' answers were I couldn't say. illuminance_map_60deg_beams (4).pdf

Just took some water pressures again. The mains supply is at 50 Psi, and downstream of the caleffi pressure reducing valve is at 50 Psi. Is it possible that if the plumber that cleaned it didn't reset the screw pressure adjustment properly, and the downstream side has been subject to some 6 bar back pressure, that the screw may have worked out more over time?? because immediately after that plumber had been 4 months ago my memory is that the PRV output pressure was more like 3.1/3.2bar rather than 3.5/50psi, having been about 2.8bar before he started. And in principle is there any reason the system can't be run at say 3.1bar, rather than the 2.8bar it was at before, because even this small change has a very noticeable effect on our shower flow.

Only the shower head and one set of basin taps post date the new system - there is a little on the shower head but nothing that impacts flow at shower head or basin tap. The water softener is a PITA because (as you can see) I defo need a proper fully competent, experienced, and conscientiuous plumber. The Water softener is to go in the understairs cupboard but needs to go tight back against the outside wall and tight on one side to a stud wall with the understair loo behind it - otherwise it prevents any meaningful access and use of the rest of the cupboard by blocking the cupboard doorway. The original builders plumber installed the valve/bypass valve too far over, and also decided to put a standpipe positioned right behind the water softener position and bossed into the u/stairs toilet soil pipe, also necessitating a waterless trap. This arrangement is crap and doesn't achieve what we need/asked for. The water softener itself was never actually plumbed in to bring it into use and the builder and his plumber long ago terminated. Ring another Plumber - Send details/arrange visit - quote promised - quote chased - no quote and availability ever obtainable - ring another plumber: repeat on an infinite basis for 2 years, dry wife's crying eyes, and say don't take the anti-depressants. A better idea would seem to be to drill straight out through the outside wall with holes for the drain pipe and the overflow pipe. There is no outside surface drain in that position at the moment but it is close to a drain chamber, and it has been suggested to me that a (good) drainage plumber could dig out the hardcore and put one in.

However I have had occasional tundish discharge before the plumber ever came to clean the caleffi PRV. So potentially him leaving the PRV set to a higher pressure has simply made the problem worse and more noticeable.

So I guess you are saying, if the cylinder is running at 3.5 bar rather than 3bar, then this is going to compress the expansion diaphragm even at cold water temperatures (if the vessel diaphragm is only air pressurised to 3 bar) and therefore some of the expansion capacity will be lost. Therefore the expansion vessel pressurisation should be matched to the P reducing V output pressure with a small adjustment for height difference between the valve and the vessel (about 1m or 0.1bar).

I can see both sides of the valve because the outside outside tap is connected directly to the incoming mains - I have taken the pressure there a lot of times and it is 3.5bar or 50PSI with very little variation (I have a new 32mm mains pipe connection installed earlier this year to replace the old lead pipe). The inside taps in the utility room only have about 3m of pipe running from the cylinder location. The cold tap is on the balanced cold and the hot tap is from the hot pipe/cylinder. So pressure readings taken from these inside outside taps are essentially the same as the pressures downstream of the pressure reducing valve. (negligible height difference).

So the hot water timer was set to come on for an hour at 4pm today. At around 4:40pm I noticed the tundish going again - so same problem. Static pressure before opening at the hot tap was 90 PSI again etc. Same short burst of water from the cold tap before it goes to normal flow rate. (I should say these are outside taps fitted internally as a temporary job so there is no mixer block or flow restrictors on them). The static water pressure at the outside tap (fed directly from incoming mains) is 50PSI or about 3.5bar. The static water pressure at the internal cold tap is about the same, but it may be picking up a bit of extra pressure from the over pressure hot side ? (Water pressure at the internal cold tap drops to about 37 PSI when the hot tap is running - to be expected) I guess even if the mains pressure reducing valve had failed the incoming pressure to the system would only be 3.5 bar, yet clearly the cylinder pressure is getting up to 6 bar when the water is heated. So it must all come back to a failure at the expansion tank. Used a thermometer to take the hot water temperature which was under 60C, so can't be a water overtemp thing or failed thermostat.

The pressure reducing valve was stripped down only about 4 months ago because of concern about whether it was restricting water flow. There was nothing significant found on the strainer and the little that was there washed off before replaceing it. I did notice that after the plumber that did this had finished, the static water pressure at the tap and our shower flow problem were improved. I took this to mean he had tightened/set it less than before so it was acting as more of a 3.2bar PRV than the 2.8bar we seemed to be getting before. As this was giving us noticeably better flow and didn't seem too far from 3bar I have left it alone since then (rightly or wrongly).

Thanks Simon, yes I see now the top cap unscrews to reveal the valve. What is the best guage to use/buy to take the pressure ? (My current guage only has a tap type screw fitting) Perhaps better to buy one with a pump as well ? So for the 6bar pressure relief valve to open the pressure in the cylinder and in the expansion vessel is likely reaching 6 bar. The expansion vessel should be absorbing the expansion and limiting the cylinder pressure to 3bar or so. Would seem to imply either: (a) The expansion vessel diaphragm has failed and so the vessel has filled with water (b) The air pressure outside the diaphragm is too low, perhaps from a leaking valve or vessel The vessel has a 5 year guarantee, so would seem odd for it to fail in either of these ways in just 2/3 years ? From the manual... ''Some pressure loss is to be expected and should be rectified to within a reasonable accuracy but a significant drop in air pressure may signify that the vessel membrane is nearing the end of it’s life span and may require replacement.'' The manual also states the max operating temperature for the butyl membrane is 70C, so presumably if it has become over heated at some point this may have caused early failure. (Doesn't seem much margin for error when the cylinder is set at 60C). Not sure what the impact of no water softener may be over 2 years.

Found the install manual for the expansion vessel - attached. According to the drawings at the back of this document, the smaller Zilmet expansion vessels like mine do not appear to have a 1/2inch BSP male connection at the top to enable the actual charge pressure to be measured/adjusted ?? Ultrapro-IOM-V5.pdf

Thanks @Nickfromwales I attach a couple more pics showing the expansion vessel setup. There is a 22mm pipe run from the Caleffi combination valve up to the vessel. I don't see an isolation valve on this as such, unless there is a way to isolate it at the combination valve. The system has been running for 2-2.5 years now, installed by our original builders plumber, who never finished installing the water softener which still sits in our lounge. I had to point out to this plumber that he had not installed any tundish. His response was to claim that - you will never get any discharges from these valves ! No tundish is of course against regs and manufacturer installation guide so insisted he fitted it. From the label the expansion vessel states it originally had a 3 bar precharge, and seems to be a 22L nominal capacity - is this sufficient in size ? (I see 4%-9% water expansion mentioned via google and the cylinder is 248L, so seems to be at 9% ish, and not sure whether that capacity is reduced by the air that should be in there)

I am getting occasional water discharge through the tundish on my mains pressure unvented cylinder with gas boiler. (Not 100 percent certain, but this appears to occur when the hot water is on and has been on for a while.) The mains pressure is about 3.5bar. There is a Caleffi combination Pressure Reducing Valve fitted and it reduces the pressure to slightly below mains. There is also a temperature/pressure relief valve on the Gledhill cylinder. (See photos). +Both are connected to the same discharge pipe and single shared tundish. - the water discharge is not hot - I have stuck my finger in it. - I have temporary outside style hot and cold taps piped from the system just 2-3m away from the system. When the tundish runs, the water pressure at the cold tap is about 3.5bar/50PSI. The water pressure at the hot tap is very high at about 6.2bar/90PSI. - When I open the hot tap the hot water blasts out and I leave it to run for a few minutes to release this pressure. Reconnecting the pressure guage after doing this shows the pressure at the hot tap has then fallen to about 3.5bar/50PSI and the tundish stops running. - If I open the cold tap it momentarily blasts out - just for a second or so - then runs normally. In the 2nd Photo the pipe connections are: - 22mm pipe into the top is the mains water supply - 22mm pipe out on the right with right angle bend upwards is I believe the balanced cold water supply - 22mm pipe out on the right below the balanced cold runs to an expansion tank mounted on the wall (Note green stain on this pipe - joint weep ?) - 22mm pipe out at the bottom provides the cold water feed to the base of the unvented cylinder The grey plastic is the mains feed pressure reducing valve. The red plastic is a 6 bar pressure relief valve outputting to the tundish (So I presume this is what is opening under excess pressure conditions) Presumably the red valve is opening as a result of back pressure from the cylinder ?? So what is causing this ? Why is the cylinder pressure rising so high, and does this indicate some problem with the expansion vessel, which is presumably there to provide hot water expansion capacity and avoid over pressure ? PS Having a 6 bar and 60deg C 250L hot water bomb in the house would seem like cause for concern ? Help, explanation, answers, how to get it fixed etc greatly appreciated... (PPS Currently have the Hot Water timer on for 2 hrs in the morning and 2 hrs in the evening - temperature of the hot water from hot tap appears to be 60C as expected. But the over pressure seems like it may perhaps be linked to having the hot water timer on. - though it doesn't occur every time - have only noticed the tundish running maybe once every few weeks.)

So how can I effectively find and successfully engage a good plumber ? I must have had contact with over 12 plumbers, and every case has been problematic. Builder's plumber could run neat pipe (mostly) but was a speedy gonzales that wouldn't turn up for weeks or months and left me with some issues, then resorted to gross dishonesty. Other plumbers I contact, they agree to come and look/discuss, then agree to provide a quote but you never get the quote. You gently and politely chase the quote but rarely makes any difference. I have had 4ish plumbers that said they would quote, then just blocked my number rather than type a text message saying they don't want the job. Then you call from another number, and it's, oh sorry I have just got back from holiday yesterday, been sick, yada yada obvious bullshit. I have had plumbers that ask for a list of works (why would they ask for this if they are not interested) so you send it, no response, gently chase, then get 'I am too busy for 4/5 months' - one chap did that twice over. Well if they were too busy why did they waste my time asking for a list of works. I have used plumbing services companies a few times for minor things (the type that serve landlords etc). While you get an appointment in a week or so, someone different turns up each time, generally young and recently qualified and it shows. Another plumber charged a fortune for a poor days work. One turned up, said are you technical because you seem to know what you want - then disappeared saying I'll let you know if I decide I am interested. Another one quoted, I accepted the quote, they came once and did the first 2 hrs work, then disappeared and turned out they were unavailable for many months having taken a big commercial contract (and abandoned their committed customers like me without even bothering to tell them). Asked 5 different plumbers how to resolve a problem - got 5 different answers. At this rate it would be easier to train myself as a plumber than find a good honest personable and reliable plumber. I know they are out there - how the hell are you supposed to (a) find them and then (b) actually get them to engage on your job ? {Someone must be doing everyone else's kitchens and bathrooms.)