Spinny

Thanks. I think both cables are in plastic conduit. Nervous of using a multitool to cut the box as easy to slip and damage the cable. Can I buy Aviation snips, or some kind of nibbling tool to cut the box ? Also when I put the new one in, is it permissible to cut the front section out of one entry hole so that I can slide one cable in from the front of the box ?

So I need to move an electrical box about 40mm to the right - see photo. The box is loose but how do I get it out without damaging the cables ?

I recall asking about the drawer depth because we want to keep dinner plates in there. A 270mm dinner plate just squeezes into the drawer depth, but remember thinking the drawers would take 300mm plates. It frustrates me when you pay a lot for something where efficient use of space is always critical and then the manufacturer just can't be bothered not to design out completely unnecessary wasted space. I come from the aerospace industry where people work with microns. iwould never expect that, but just chucking inches away seems bizarre, lazy, and rather poor. Yes they have a showroom, but likely not this depth of cabinet within it. I did challenge some holes in the oak look shelving unit that then have to have plastic covers, but got nowhere on that. They can make a cabinet width to a mm but insist on drilling unnecessary fixing holes in display shelves.

Apologies @G and J, I do very much appreciate you providing the comment. I over reacted to the middle person getting out bit and I am frustrated that best laid plans get frustrated by all the trades nicking inches. The kitchen fitter has moved the island alleyway out to 910 saying he thinks that is best, the kitchen designer encouraged us to make the island 990 wide. I have been concerned about space on that side all long but everyone railroaded me. Our old dining room was 3.4m wide with a 450mm sideboard on one side, leaving 2950 and we had a 950 table and high back sloping chairs. We will have to chose the chair design very carefully - maybe fabric back. Any pics appreciated.

Looking at our narrower drawers, it is apparent that when closed the drawers finish 40mm short of the actual back of the cupboard. (This is on a 300 depth drawer.) So 40mm of space we cannot access or use, Not what I was expecting. Any comments ? Should I complain ?

Well for the middle person to get out past others that are seated, then I imagine you would need at least 900mm. In all honesty I have been to dinner at people's houses where you would need other(s) to move in order to get out. Ditto restaurants. The problem is (1) most uk houses are of limited size, so talking ideals is great if you are a multi-millionaire, live in the country, or somewhere where housing is cheap, but I rather think it very difficult to achieve for most people in the UK, and (2) the use case of people for dinner is occasional and rarely more than 6 or so people for us. Most of the time the table is serving no more than 4, so everyone can get out at 650. Is the use case of fat uncle albert sat in the middle needing the toilet that critical ? On the other side of the table is a walkway down the room, so permanently limiting that because fat uncle albert comes to dinner twice a year seems unjustified. The table can be moved to-and-fro of course but the lighting will be fixed. Wall gap 900 + table 900 + seated person on other side 500 is 2300 which then leaves a walkway of only 600, or 900 with no-one seated. Every trade robs space - the brickie stole 25mm, the plasterer 15mm, the kitchen fitter 15mm

Quick thoughts... Why not run the cladding horizontally ? Have seen it done that way on gable ends and looking good. Maybe easier to fit that way. Why timber ? Requires maintenance and changes colour. Have you considered fibre-cement type cladding boards.

Have you looked at the T&C's provided to you by the architect ? Might have thought they would define payment terms and conditions. Upfront payment or deposit ? Why 50% ? Probably equates to 3 or 4 man days of work

Thing really is what is workable for the dining table. i think the table has to be 900 wide, going narrower becomes cramped for xmas etc. Anyone with a dining table adjacent to a wall care to comment on minimum space between the two ?

The fitter tells me it is not normally screwed to the floor at all, so potentially adjustable until the worktops go on, but not useable without worktops. Also difficult to visualise the aesthetic effect of adding the worktops on the surrounding spaces. Outstanding fitter by the way, well practiced in tool feng shui.

Yes have seen people put the island on wheels to make it adjustable.

Well I guess us sassenachs need some way to keep broad shouldered caber tossing barbarians invading from the north from getting into our houses 🤣

That is a fab kitchen, but the room must be pretty huge there (I am guessing 5m at the narrow point and over 8m long?), and a dedicated kitchen diner ? Is that an extractor on the beam ??

Do you think ? Spouse generally does the cooking and have never really cooked both together. While that is happening others might want to access the fridge which is free to access beyond the alleyway, so cannot really see why you would choose to go up the alleyway side to get there. What else might the non-cook want ? Wine from the cooler on the far end of the island - no problem, a glass or plate some of which will be in drawers on the open side of the island - no problem, food from the pull out larder which is beyond the the alleyway next to the fridge - no problem, drinking or boiling water from a revolving tap just 400mm from the open side of the island, - no problem, retreive something from the ovens which are on the far end of the alley - no problem. Unload the drawer dishwasher which is at the far end of the alley - might clash a bit with cook going to the fridge/larder - but only intermittent. Throw something into the recycling bins under the sink - not ideal while someone cooking. Hopefully dinner guests are not going to go into the alleyway to hound the cook, just chat from the far side of the island. Doesn't seem too bad ?

Ok thanks. Wow. Are all hallways in Scotland 1400mm wide ?

Thanks for your comments Gus. 'fraught with problems' - perhaps you are misinterpreting the pics. The fridge freezer is not going at the end of the galley, it fits against the side wall at the end. The dishwasher next to it is going in the island. It is an extension and refurb, not a new build, running under pre June 2022 building regs. There is no requirement to comply with disability requirements like raised sockets and lowered light switches etc because it is not a new build. I can appreciate you or family may be wheelchair users so every respect for the challenges that brings, and many of us can go there though circumstance or old age. I do think designing a wheel chair kitchen is a completely different thing though. The house is 1930's so has 32inch doorways, whereas today's new builds are only ever 30inch doorways. Space at either end of galley is around 1.25m by 2.8m, if that is not enough for 'moving around' I am not sure what is. If you live in a city or a flat in the UK then most (almost all) homes would fail your expectations. The room itself is 7.6m by 5.45m and I don't believe furniture placement is subject to building regs. One of us can stand at the sink or hob, and the other still walk through behind, though we expect this to be a rare event as you can walk into the galley between island and wall run from either end and the fridge is beyond the galley area. Design was done with an experienced kitchen designer of course. Our original plan was for 900-910, but as I have learnt, all trades from builders, ground workers, through brickies, and plasterers will only ever produce rooms smaller than plan. A metre walkway with 30mil handles sticking out each side is already down to 940. I am interested in what others have done, and on how much space a dining table and chairs needs, and a gallye needs, photos much appreciated.

1. We have gone for a double drawer dishwasher, so doesn't need so much room to open. 2. we have gone for a handleless kitchen so no knobs reducing the space 3. Everything on both sides is a pull out drawer cupboard of various types 4. Oven is slide and hide 5. Wall cupboards have rising fold upwards doors, not swing out 6. Thinking one person galley 7. 1250 free space at both ends 8, fridge not behind island The other side of the island needs space for a walkway and a dining table and chairs. Going to 870 would give us 2940 on the other side - chair space on wall side 650, table width 900, pushed in chair space 300 = 1850 - leaves 1090 walkway. With someone sat at table needing say 500mm walkway goes down to 890mm See pics. PS that is oversize cardboard, not worktop. Worktop is 650 hob side and 990 island side. How much room do you really need for a dining table ?

Any views on the reasonable minimum alley width in a kitchen between wall worktop and island worktop ? Thinking of going down to 870mm.

PS I was joking about the dog. 🤪 (I do fondly remember him occasionally excreting on the concrete floor. Some say they get triggered when their paws hit concrete, I preferred to think of it as his quality control assessment.)

The water level is your friend and never lies, never lied in over 4500 years.

The ironic thing is I tried to withhold a small percentage of the invoice until after delivery. I was insistently told I had to comply with their T&Cs and pay in full prior to delivery as all customers are required to do. I duly conceded. The problem is, the parts order on the factory was correct, the factory will state they supplied all the parts, the logistics/storage company will say they stored all the parts supplied to them, the delivery company will say they delivered all the parts in storage. So who is to accept responsibility and pay ? As it is, my kitchen company are ordering the replacement parts at no cost to me - but presumably some cost to them. The problem is that once moneys are paid there is rarely a way to get them back if no one accepts responsibility. The problem with the building and refurbishment game is that it is always and often only the poor sod of a customer that pays the consequences of cock-ups - because it is your building that always suffers the defects, and the delays.

Would flanagaj be pissed off though ? Or just curious enough to say 'why do you ask ?' The world is full of people that are certain they are right, but often wrong, yet take personal offence if anyone questions them. The people to have are those that always know there is stuff they don't know, happy to discuss any problem, because the issue is just the issue, so there is never any need to take personal offence. https://youtu.be/KkLN6bUGfZY?si=95SftKIzz_03eqM7

Abandon all hope, ye who enter here !

So after my flooring company completed only half their job at the last moment (and blocked my drain with levelling compound), the new kitchen was delivered and fitting started this week. The absence of my electrician on compassionate grounds was solved by me miraculously finding a temporary fill in sparky at no notice. Today I am told that the kitchen delivery (which has been in storage by the supplier for > 2 years, mostly at my expense) is short of multiple panels which will take 4+ weeks to replace. Therefore the fitter can lash up a temporary workaround but will then need to return to adjust and insert the missing panels after they arrive. So now I have another horrendous re-planning nightmare to try to solve, a house full of temporary lash up and delivered appliances everywhere, and a spouse elated by the actual arrival of new kitchen parts, to thrust back down into depression, anger, and hopelessness. Seems like the dog did the right thing last year - it died. AAaaaarrrrrrgggggghhhhh ! Will this shitshow of incompetence never end ?

102mm wide by 940mm long strips. About 2.5mm thick. https://grosvenor-flooring.com/product/amtico-spacia-featured-oak/