ryder72

I have nothing against Bora. I just dont think the product lives up to the marketing hype. They are brilliant at marketing their product. I have seen independent test results which show the Bora sitting in the middle of the pile and outperformed by BSH, Miele which one wouldnt expect to be doing better given they arent really specialist products and probably cheaper too. The other specialist products that Bora competes against far outstrips Bora on performance.

We are a Novy retailer but you will find a list on their website. PM me is you like more info. Elica - not bad.

@Ggbarn if you are looking at a venting hob, I would urge you to consider the Novy range. Their product is unique because unlike all their competitors they do not accept that an extraction solution flush with the hob provides effective extraction. For this reason they have extraction integrated into the hob which rises to varying heights to assist. The benefits this provides is that the extractor is quieter. They work by creating a pressure differential that is matched only by one Miele and one Siemens model and an accelerated airflow rate that beats anything else on the market. The I dont really rate the Siemens or the Miele hoods generally. I myself have a Gutmann Abajo and while it works well, its substantially noisier than the Novy hoods. If I could, I would swap my Gutmann for a Novy. There are several other features on the Novy that make it a better hob. Bora is not a bad product but its mostly marketing hype and its easily equalled by a BSH product. @SteamyTea- in principle its not difficult for anyone to make a venting hob. Its still a low volume product so to make one that is commercially viable is the challenge. For this reason, even today only a handful of companies make their own hoods and most are manufactured by contract manufacturing companies in Italy and branded. I wont name names, but some of the biggest branded hoods arent even their own product and a cheaper equivalent is easily sourceable.

Building these bulkheads is only really needed to get around joists etc. In a new build there is no reason why these extractors shouldnt go flush into the ceiling. Ceiling hoods are great for extracting odours but not necessarily to remove grease. On a downdraft hood, your grease filter should be catching most of the grease and very little getting into the ductwork.

Good quality stainless steel or cast iron pans are essential for induction. None of the induction compatible alloys or copper bottom pans. Induction hobs work by inducing heat in the pan so a solid bottom pan with a substantial amount of steel/iron is essential is generating heat and distributing heat evenly round the pan for best performance. Try buying a budget induction compatible and you will soon find out how useless they are. We had to swap a good quality circulon induction compatible set with a stainless steel set just to make the most of the induction hob.

With back to back units it isnt going anywhere. Its only when you have a single row of units with a worktop overhang that you need to seriously consider some arrangement to prevent it tipping.

Almost all English kitchens will be a carcase height of 720mm with a plinth of 150mm . European kitchens vary from the 720mm standard height with 150mm plinth (a system that apparently dates back to the post war years. Modern premium European kitchens will typically have 780mm carcases with 100mm plinths but even this varies (our supplier does 795mm carcases with 100mm plinths). This is done for 2 main reasons- 1. The average european is about 2 inches taller now than in the 40's and the increased worktop height makes for better ergonomics. 2. Most manufacturers use a generic supplier for door fronts who make them in fixed sizes. The 780 system works on a 130mm grid making modular construction cheaper and more flexible (Our supplier is totally bespoke so they work on a 132.5mm grid allowing for a 795mm carcase, squeeezing in a bit more storage) Add to this your worktop height which will vary between 20 or 30mm stone, 40mm corian, 40mm laminate, 30 or 40mm wood. Anything above these is possible. To this one would normally add 100mm upstands when stone or corian worktops are used. If you are able to set your cill height bearing the above in mind you are able to achieve better detailing around the windows. Else one end up from upstands that could appear too low to be of much use, a bit top heavy or fussy detailing around the window behind the sink.

Mercury/Falcon are part of the Rangemaster group and I rate them highly. I am surprised to hear of Lacanche as they are generally highly rated. Same with Bertazonni. As a retailer we dont generally deal with range cookers but if I had to supply one I would only deal with Mercury and Falcon. Too much headache with the other brands.

Range cooker is not a bad alternative if its a good quality product. In my experience very few products are well made and delivery the same quality & performance a built in ovens from a mainstream brand. Typically Mercury, Falcon, Lacanche, Bertazzoni are the better product. Most of the lower priced options are built to a price tag and not really great products.

Get one with a timer on the machine so you can set a programme and delay the start typically for up to 19 hours to conincide with cheaper tariffs.

If you are looking at gas with downdraft, you have a pretty big challenge to overcome. Unlike induction there is a greater amount of air currents created due to the naked flame and this tends to push the odours/smoke upwards at a higher rate . Further a downdraft extractor flush with the worktop is going to create air movement that will affect your flame detrimentally. While manufacturers make this product to serve a market you will never ever get anywhere close to the claimed performance with a gas hob. Then consider this - heat rises. This is a plain fact of physics. To draw this heat and heat assisted smoke, odours down from the rim of the pan is a challenge that any extractor has to overcome. One of the fundamental problems that ANY flush downdraft faces is the performance overhead of the task at hand. Bora claims to have solved this problem with air velocity, but tests have shown that all other manufacturers achieve similar velocities to Bora so that doesnt make them unique in any way. I have a Gutmann extractor at home and while its a very good product and installed with the best ducting gear available, it is far from perfect. It only really works when shallow flying in a very flat pan. Try cooking with a medium height saucepan, pasta pot etc and the reality hits home. This is the reason why you see all Bora adverts showing water boiling and steam being effectively extracted away - ASSISTED by a lid on the pan. Take the lid away and things look very different. I recommend the Novy because they have not fallen for this trend and instead offer vented hobs where the extraction unit rises to 2 or 3 levels from the hob top allowing very effective extraction. Further all pans are always next to the extraction point so the motor can be run at a lower speed compared to traditional downdraft hoods The Novy Panorama is particularly good and I wish I had got one instead (wasnt on the market when my kitchen went in). In summary, If you have to have a gas hob, consider a conventional downdraft with the caveat that its still not 100% or a different type of extraction.

You know you can ask for your deposit back if you choose to do this. I had a client recently who had paid a deposit for a £14k kitchen from Wren as a supply only job. The kitchen fitter she contacted for installation recommended she speak to us and we did the kitchen for a fair bit under. She had no problem getting her deposit back. If anyone in kitchens ever tells you there is a discount - RUN. Its all made up and its smoke and mirrors. If there is a discount with a deadline, it will be available after the deadline. If it isnt, come and get the money from me.

Wren is probably the most questionable quality product you will buy. Very poor value. The quality is no better than Howdens and you will buy Howdens (sensibly priced) better than Wren.

A recirculation hood to trap grease is a good idea. While the venting hob options are dearer, you do extract at point of source so very effective. The MVHR deals pretty well with odours so this I wouldnt worry about.

Your best bet would be to buy an inline motor from an extractor motor and retrofit it to your hood duct. The main issue is the controls as the normal setup involves a cable set that connects into a connector already present on a hood supplied by the same manufacturer and you can then control the motor from the controls on the hood.

Sorry guys. I am not going to post any prices here. Please PM if interested.

£4k ??? Send me a PM if you like.

All signs point towards a dodgy fabricator - price went up, Cant or wont do mitres etc. There is nothing wrong with a mitred downleg unless your kitchen sits on a floating floor. If its a floating floor (like floorboards etc) then mitres are a bad idea as they could open up in time. If its solid floor (concrete/screed) then there is absolutely no reason not to have a mitred join. It will last as long as the kitchen itself.

I have read the manual and it does recommend cleaning (washing out) the heat exchanger every time the filters are replaced. That will teach me to start reading manuals.

Our MVHR system Airflow Adriot was commissioned in January this year and has been in operation for nearly 12 months now. Last winter Feb-April the display showed the differential between the extract and intake air at around 2-3 degrees with ambient at around 4/5 degrees. Nearly a year into operation, the differential has widened to closer to 4-5 degrees with the same ambient outside temperature. The intake and extract filters were replaced in October (very dirty) and the intake vent metal grille on the outside removed and washed to get rid of all sorts of rubbish (in fact i was pretty surprised at how dirty it was). Is is normal that the differential should grow over a year of operation and what the causes for this might be. I did wonder if the heat exchanger itself needs to be cleaned out. I can imagine that clogged heat exchange plates (or fins or whatever the appropriate word is) could lead to a deterioration in performance.

Panorama is quieter. I have the Abajo myself and I can vouch for the Panorama. If you are looking for a hob with 4 zones on induction the Novy product is one of the best I have found.

No it works. What you need is for the vent to come down into the plinth void where you connect it to the recirc box in the plinth space. We have installed it.

An extractor in vented mode would get rid of smell, steam and trap grease. In recirculation mode, particularly in houses with MVHR systems, the MVHR deals with the smell and steam remarkably effectively. However, grease is another matter. If the grease isnt trapped, its going to go somewhere. Typically this will end up on the units, worktop, floor & even walls in the room making these harder to clean and also a breeding ground for bacteria and fungus. It also tends to start smelly musty in time. This obviously does depend on individual cooking habits. A good extractor is worth it. Most of the venting hobs, while very good, command a substantial premium over most other alternatives. Only the user can decide what this is worth to them but personally .

@lizzie I would never call Bora a bad product, because it isnt. Its absolutely fine. But I think there are better products out there for the money. For instance, the Bora basic is easily matched by the NikolaTesla from Elica. The One from Novy is the nearest competitor with quieter operation, better extraction rate and a much cleverer central downdraft mechanism that rises and drops to 3 heights to suit the type of cooking being carried out. Benefit - You must have seen what happens when you have a pot on the boil without the strategically placed lid - rising steam doesnt get completed sucked down. The Novy counters this problem and when turned off, leave a clean continuous ceramic surface. The One Pro has better inductors and a higher grade ceramic that virtually anyone else on the market. The Panorama from Novy is a completely unique concept leaving all drawers usable (albeit 40cm deep rather than 50cm). Novy offers ceiling and conventional extraction as well with matching hobs that communicate.

@Tennentslager turns out that cookology is their own branded stuff. Fine if you want to sell the property on. Not good at all as appliance retailers generally have little longevity and there wont be anyone around to support the product if the seller is no longer trading. @curly - I have always been a bit sceptical of Bora. Its a good product. But for similar money there are better products. Having taking on Novy, I have to say their products are more innovative and quieter in operation. In fact we have switched most of our business from Gutmann to Novy. Thats how good I think the product is.