ryder72

I would definitely have Nolte over Alno. Alno is still a bit overrated for what it is. And yes better than the three entrry brands plus nobilia, All cheaper than Siematic.

I am probably not using the right terminology here, but whatever volume of air the extractor moves will be within the room. Piping that volume of air into the MVHR extract vent will sure throw the system out of balance.

Disagree- Nobilia ,Hacker and Schuller are all in the same marketplace as is Bauformat. Alno and Nolte is mid-market.

I am too old and ugly to worry about any suppliers. I have brands which I have worked with for years, have full confidence in the product and I will not sell anything else unless I am offered a solid reason by someone else who can match what I have for a better price. I am waiting but I doubt if this exists. PM me and I will point you towards a few other products. Only you can decide if the 15-20% lower price is worth the drop in quality/detail/finish. Builders discount IMO is a load of nonsense as well. If a bag of cement is bought for a tenner and sold retail for 20 but to a builder for 15, the principle is that the builder gets the price because they but a truckload of it. This argument I can buy. In reality I would like to see if the same scale exists for kitchens. When Howdens offers 80% on its units for trade accounts, you have to ask what a reasonable markup is.

Let me provide a better explanation - Consider Brand X and Brand Y and retailers John and Paul. Brand X and Y are mid markets products in Germany. Brand X is imported into UK by an importer who puts a 15% markup on the product while Brand Y is willing to sell to retailers direct from Germany. Naturally Brand Y is cheaper for similar quality to Brand X. John sells X and Paul sells Y. John pays 15% more then Paul. So John has to justify his markup compared to Paul and he might do this by having a fancier showroom and calling the product a top end offering. Paul can sell it for the same markup as John and still be cheaper. Or he increases his margins to match Johns selling price and makes a healthier margin. Paul may offer Johns prices and offer a fake discount which John cant offer making Pauls offer more attractve on the face of it. Either way the cost-quality balance is upset and then the smoke and mirrors game starts.

As a rule a brand isnt moved upmarket. Its a retailer positioning a brand higher than it ought to be. I wont do any positioning on a public forum as it is a matter of opinion and it can open a can of worms. Poggenpohl is a very strong brand and they have invested very heavily in the branding. Siematic is probably the better of the two products but if you have a good budget then Zeyko or Bulthaup are probably the pinnacle. Leicht will give you an alternative to Poggelpohl or Siematic for a lower price point. The quality and spec is comparable. As for discounts, they are all made up. If a factory gives you a net buying price, you are free to make up your retail price by determining your markup and then a totally ficticious discount depending on how gullible your customer is. Its better to deal with a retailer who gives you an honest price upfront with a sustainable markup.

To be honest that is a myth a lot of kitchen retailers peddle. Kitchens are fundamentally not complicated of high-tech items. What the German manufacturers do very well in invest heavily in automation. Essentially play to their strength of being able to scale up manufacturing and provide a product to a good quality consistently and do it correctly. Right from the entry level German manufacturing to the top end ones, the one thing in common is a well put-together product, delivered to order. On time. and complete. It the the retailing that attaches the German tag to any German-made kitchen and tries a smoke and mirrors approach. There are definite differences in quality, detailing, materials, design between German manufacturers but this isnt immediately apparent unless you are in the business. This is something British manufacturers fail to do. Its all about cutting corners with a that'll do attitude. Inevitably that results in shoddy build quality, poor attention to detail, compromised quality and a shocking price driven attitude.

Leicht is one of the best value kitchens that also offer great features. Effectively Siematic for a lot less. Almost all German products are better than the bog standard British kitchen, but not all of them add the clever features that Leicht offer.

Oven will be screwed in through the front.

Usually used to tie the base unit to the wall.

TBH I have found the more premium the brand the more snobbish they are about their service. Actually the same bloke that fixes you basic bosch oven comes out to fix your £8k Gaggenau oven in the same van but his hourly rate is twice as much. Often you pay more for the same parts. What is a justifiable premium for premium brands is a matter of personal opinion but what is certainly not true is that various brands from the same factory are identical or that a brand is better because its got a premium name tag on it.

But to imply they are made in the same factory so its the same thing is incorrect. They share platforms and in some instances they are the same product but that doesnt mean all products coming off that line are the same. It may be that an AEG fridge has a quieter and more energy efficient compressor while the Zanussi is the base model compressor. Gaggenau 200 series ovens are built on the Siemens platform. They are assembled in the same factory. Some components are shared. Many arent. Does that make a Gaggenau 200 series oven the same as the Siemens oven. NO.

Yes Siematic is a good product, albeit a bit pricey. But it will easily last you 25-30 years and will still look good as new with a bit of TLC

Its absolutely not. Buy chipboard from the sheds and its all uniform density stuff. I deal with 2 German manufacturers and when their chipboard quality/density varies. You can feel the weight of the carcases. And yet the cheaper of the two kitchens is leagues better than the sheds here. I have had small local builders that do 5-10 houses a year switch their buying from the sheds where they could arguably get better discounts to us.

You have got factually incorrect information. DIY use Blum hinges which is Austrian. Or is it a case of German/Austrian - same thing? Like all chipboard is the same. Is all toilet paper the same?

German kitchens are manufactured in large highly automated factories and like most German product, the product quality, detailing and finishing is generally higher. Like car manufacturing, the manufacturing is customised and made to order (which explains the longer lead time) but German manufacturers dont have factories full of ready to ship good. This provides flexibility in manufacturing and customisation. This said, German kitchens are just kitchens in Germany so like all products there is grades of products, some entry level, some mid market and some high end. The main differences between there are quality/grade of chipboard used, flexibility and degree of customisation offered, degree of 'bespokeness' available and quality of components used. As a blanket statement, I would say the stuff sold by British sheds would have no market in Europe. The quality is just not acceptable. As an anecdote, Howdens attended a trade fair in Germany in 2018 and it became an object of curiosity. As a retailer I have tried to work with British made products and my experience was typical of British manufacturing - that will do. Sloppy detailing, chronic underinvestment in machinery and technology etc. To the point where it didnt remain economically viable to buy locally manufactured product and cheaper to ship a truck full or mostly air from Germany and still it at lower or very similar prices to German products. The exception to this are the high end bespoke products that are British. Beautiful craftsman but expensive. Lots of comparable parallels exist between British car brands such as JLR or the top end ones like RR and Bentley. Capable of making great products but quality can be patchy and they are expensive. Watch out for smoke and mirrors. Lots of entry level German products get sold as high end ones with German being the selling factor. After nearly 15 years in the business, I closed my doors to British kitchens. It doesnt help me run an efficient operation and I am not interested in creating work for myself.

Novy make the quietest ones on the market. Look at their Pureline range. Ultimately you have to accept that anything you put in will come with compromises. And a no compromises system will cost money. So you need to find something that sits within your budget and make your peace with the compromises it brings.

If you go with a downdraft system you still have no guarantee that you wont get smells in the room from the inherent inability for any downdraft extraction system to take away 100% of smells and humidity. This means you will have to open doors and windows to clear the room. And if you are prepared to do this, you may as well recirculate, save yourself the cost and bother of ducting out, and give yourself the energy saving benefit gained from the fact that good downdraft systems have effective odour removal systems also, so you arent expelling heated air from your house. If you find on the odd occasion that odours still linger, you will have to open the doors or windows anyways so you are in the same place as a ducted system. This is assuming that the ducted system is installed with the right ducting and correctly (not often the case). A good ceiling recessed extractor with onboard motor will cost you around £1500-1800. The hob will cost you between 750-900 for a 4 zone 80cm unit from a reputable brand. Add some money for ducting and installation. Ultimately this is the best solution for you if cost was not a problem. If it is, a recirc system is your solution.

Gaggenau - I imagine a downdraft type hob will be £4k. More than the Bora certainly. If this is price sensitive, you best option is a recirc Bora and to open doors and windows if the smell gets excessive. Any other solutions is going to cost magnitudes more.

Good products but frightfully expensive. Fundamentally not better than anything mainstream on the market but will branding.

With 3m ceilings and lots of cooking curries a ceiling flush mounted extractor, possibly with a powerful external motor is the solution. it wont be cheap though.

There is no such thing as affordable high end kitchen. Have you heard of an affordable Range Rover? Personally I dont rate the product at all. If you want a simple affordable shaker style kitchen DIY kitchens are hard to beat. If you want something with fabulous detailing, quality and craftsman you will have to pay upwards of £50k

Most dishwashers come with a deflector plate which is to be nailed into wood/laminate worktops. Then tend to corrode with time so its better to use the metal foil and the deflector as belt and braces

I am not sure oiling it once will provide a lifetime barrier. Metallised foils are better as they are impermeable and deflect heat away as well.

If you want generally speak the best in category products Miele are best of dishwashers and laundry. If the budget doesnt permit Miele, but BSH. They are decent. AEG/Electrolux also make decent laundry products.