zoothorn

Very interesting.. thanks Russell. Ive been mulling clear shower curtains. If one of those zip door ones was ideally clear.. it would fit the bill spot on.

Hi joe.. ah ok that confirms I'm not being a muppet & missing the bleedin obvious/ the lower bit will indeed slide out. Ok I do have rope/ need to do job today b4 rain, so if you say lashing is ok.. will have to do this. Should I be removing the placcy gutter tho? I assume so if lower end of ladder has to stick out over a bit & it squashes it down 2" if I leave it up. Then to get up onto it: do I borrow another ladder, rest & 'interlocking' it against the end of the lashed section on roof, IE where it protrudes over edge of tiles 1 ft. Hmm.. If I rest borrowed ladder against gutter still up, it goes squashed, but of course does protect the roof tiles from me resting ladder against them. If I undo gutter the roof ladder now doesn't squash the gutter down, but I gotta get onto it, using the 2nd upright ladder.

Yes but how much, just 30min job to undo me dish? no if hooks designed to add to a ladder, & @ £13 clearance in jewsons. .they stay on! What I was wondering if I'm only ever meant to use the top stage, even being 4' short of the gutter, then to use lower one against wall to get up.. but then s'how bridge the gap between is the prob I'm left with of course.

Roof ladder Q. Just a side question (Im too embarrassed to do a new thread on it).. I've just put roof hooks on end of my Lyte 2-stage ladder, hoiked it up & flipped it over into perfect position on my 45* kitchen roof (1 story kitchen): job is to remove old satellite dish & throw it into my n'bors gdn. I have a few probs: 1st is the 2nd lower stage, protruding a few ft over the gutter (placcy gutter removed, as presumably ladder weight + me on would put too much pressure on it) looks like it'll also put pressure on last protruding roof slate (adjacent to gutter). The next prob is getting up onto it.. just another ladder up against wall? or interlock it (somehow) with the 45* angled ladder sitting on the roof? The main prob tho, is I can't figure out how to actually use the lower stage section, in situ on the roof, without it sliding out from the top stage! IE without ground below, the two sections do not lock together via the two alu hooks on the lower end of the thinner top section L & R. thx zoot

I have to say despite the issues, the vaillant people who've been on phone at tech dept, plus both engineers, couldn't have been more helpful: it is not their fault its been built somewhere else (De) & marketed there too by all accounts: the manual's clearly translated into english so sentences often don't make sense, adding confusion to a ridiculously complicated manual both engineers told me Id never get any sense out of/ not fit for purpose. Trouble is Ive also racked up 7hrs worth of calls, & over 5 hrs of 3 visits. Nearly 2 days' worth of my working days spent.. & Im back at sq1, actually worse with no properly HW. I'm yearning for my old mouse-ridden 25yr old gently-tinkling-sounding immersion tank with no rads at all! where is it? let me fish it out the ystwyth already!

Of course ProDave. Vaillant Arotherm Split. 7.5kW. Thanks for thoughts btw chaps- it is helpful to feel I'm not quite so alone on this/ someon'e thinking on my behalf maybe. Appreciated. Damn tricky feeling hands tied to voice my full opinion, to both installers & vaillant, having the damn thing foc. But if its causing me stress & sleep issues, lukewarm HW & rads cant function properly (unless left on overnight & therefore intrusively noisy in small hrs).. then its undoubtadly a problem with it, not me.

Thank you joe90. Spot on as usual. I even dared suggest to the snr engineer I think said missing info has been -deliberately- withheld too.. expecting an irritated lecture, instead I got agreement. This guys no1 engineer by all accounts, of vaillant UK. I went over & perused all the info I could have before, only having to take a chance it suggests, that the -outside- (looking in diagram form like only a fan) unit created noise. Like a big fan it said, as it is so. I go 5m away in garden etc & considered noise just like the diagram. I conclude its worth the chance > its installed. The noise around here, outside.. is not by comparison, a problem whatsoever. Once the pipework to boiler done, in my spare room, & then it emerges from the box clad in black polystyrene to fit.. my alarm bells go off "whats the black for?" "sound containment" the installer says. OMG. The start of it. But too late to re-site it. Extremely angry I am about this. Especially so having a UT room, away from beds, almost ideal to house both boiler & cylinder, just renovated/ fresh to re-configure WM & a new space now my worktop/ workspace moved into my new workshop (top of WM before!). Maddening. The only silver lining is the damn thing -can- live outside, of course in a weatherproof housing. So, as I hinted to the installer an hr ago on phone, I can only see re-placing it outside as any viable way ANYONE could possibly live with it.

I have said from the top Peter. The fan itself is not a problem. Making even a soundproof container for this unit is totally meaningless. We need not agree on how the system works. I just need to inform you of the two points at which the noise is being created. One outside, one inside. A compressor, and a pump. If the compressor feeds pipes that enter the building, & it is these pipes whereby the sound is being introduced is the problem & cannot be resolved by containing the compressor even in a titanium vacuum whatever; the sound still enters the house exactly the same way & emits its noise at the same point IN the house. It seems like you ate both just arguing for the sake of doing so bc you know I'm not as technically competant as you about knowing how such a system works so you'll flatten me like a fly. I don't need to be. It is agreed by 4 engineers its noisy. There's no debate about it. I'm just informing others of the missing info vaillant should have said (Ive just had my very installer call me, & totally agree wit this very point; 2 vaillant engineers too: but you don't??) to custiomers, so they can site the equipment accordingly. I'm not asking for you to explain how the system works in detail: its not needed for this.

Its not the point ProDave. My old immersion heater made a tad of noise, sure, but nothing to interrupt being in the room.. let alone/ heaven's above making enough noise at 4AM to wake me in the adjacent room. Every house Ive been in, in my entire life has had a boiler emmitting similar feint noises, never in a month of sundays any of it 'intrusive', 'highly irritating', let alone 'sleep disturbing'. I do have a very valid point. Both my installers agree. Both vaillant engineers agree. So much so they're elevating it to being disclosed in the future. Just like Daiiking & mitsubishi do. Its is simply hoodwinking ProDave, not letting customers in on noise these inherrantly will create (as PeterW alludes to/ someone else too, who said anything with a pump with motor in shouldn't be sited bang middle of house). If this noise was just contained to before 9pm & after 7.30 am its one thing (tho still far from liveable with). Mine goes on/off/on 4am, 6am.. you imagine being woken like so in your house by motors in your adjacent room? its simply 100% not acceptable, in any way whatsoever, or, just conjusive to be in a small house spare room at all: put it in a soundproof container.. maybe yes, but whose gonna fork out for making that?

Ok we agree then (we just call it different things/ it matters not) but I know the outside noise is catagorically coming from a heat compressor (when its on it says in the Live Indicator "heat compressor active"). This is what the engineers call it. The fan sucks in air > it is compressed > made into X > then, fed into house. Its irritating noise, most of it, is heard once its entered the house, via the pipes. 10% of its noise enters house directly no, but from the unit itself (not thru 2ft stone wall, but up & in thru window: your ears tell you so).

This is my main grumble with vaillant. The only info with noise-related xyz (diagram of a fan in a box, & ascociated dB figs) relates to the outside unit. Both engineers agree hands down I have a valid point: so much so its been fwd'd on up & may very well be included in a revamped pdf. Sound meters are totally n/a if there's no info to compare anything to. Him getting his meter out & saying 'fine' is meaningless. If it wakes me in the next room, its excessively noisy/ end of. The snr engineer agrees with my points on this, even with meter in his hand.

If the heat exchanger is in two parts, 6m apart.. then yes I agree. But if you are suggesting one unit is solely resonsible for the noise, then no.. as Ive said the noise is being created at two distinctly separate points. One outside, one inside. The heat compressor, and the pump.

Hi Peter- maybe pipes not perfect.. but far from my concern. I realise its a big fridge in reverse, but half of it afaik, the compressor I know as definite, is outside.

The 1st Unit is the main problem, Compressor noise coming into it, then within it.. and also its pump within it, then onwards to cylinder. Even pipes onwards the drone is heard. cylinder does not produce any noise, but motor noise is heard at it too eminating from the boiler pic1. the outside fan plus compressor unit: fan is aggreeable in noise terms (the only thing vaillants pdf tech info purports as producing any noise, ie a diagram of a fan in a box).. but its compressor tagged to its side is anything but agreeable: so much so its easily heard 20 m away on road outside.. and as a vibration device, produces 'pools' of noise patches all over inside and outside.

@ProDave hi there, uselful reply thanks. Firstly I'm in catch-22 land as its a govt grant thing. Secondly Ive had 3 engineer visits, 1st to change a part (error code ?) not giving me huge confidence, 2nd to go thru all settings to try to alieviate/ minimise the noises (only partly success: just put in a '10* set back temp' low enough so it keeps bloody quiet at night until my rad ons @ 7.30am; tho it woke at 6am 2 days ago), 3rd visit by snr engineer to go further into it to try & reduce compressor settings (useless 2 hrs- just as noisy as b4). The noises are from 2 places. From the compressor outside. And ftom the pump inside. The compressor feeds 2x flexi pipes > enetering the house. I get most of the intrusive noise it creates within the house @ the place where the pipes enter (wall) up to where they finish (boiler). So a 3m passage of noise. On top of this, I hear the compressor outside, through & in likely the windows upstairs. So a double whammy of compresor vibrate-droning here. The other noise (a higher pitched motor type, the pump afaict) starts in the boiler > then is carried onwards to the cylinder. The two noises (compressor & pump) 95% of the time coincide. I have reduced them to stopping at 9pm. But, the motor/ pump does some cycle on-off-on 1 hour thing on its own.. without the compressor too.. at infuriatingtimes like 6AM. Or 4AM. For a full 1 hour. This is not only loud enough to wake me (a heavy sleeper) but so repeatingly incessant, seemingly the cycle it does over 1 hr or so, as to be impossible to get back to sleep. Like having a car engine start/ stop on/ off on outside your window to deliberately prevent you from sleeping.

2 points to this. 1, having a clearer picture of how they work (2 months installed) I feel again the need to warn about them, or rather my vaillant one which is an utter disaster. 2, whether someone can help with a basic setting. -- As I mentioned before, noise inside (not from the nice purring fan outside), is bad enough not just to be intrusive but aggrevating & impossible to live with. Noise eminates from the heat compressor outside > fed inside > to boiler. Loud enough to hear chiefly inside, but also can hear it outside from within house too. Noise eminates too from the pump inside the boiler > fed along pipes to cylinder. Both are on continuosly when heating on, & also during HW periods. Also the pump alone, engages on/off/on/off intermittantly 3mins/3mins loud enough to not only be heard 2 rooms away, but also overnight so much so its wakes me up in the next room through wall) & infuriatingly so bc it does whatever its doing (not even the engineers know).. for min 1 hour: this is the worst, most intrusively interruptive noise Ive heard in my life, as bad as the worst hotel for eg. Not neccessarily the loudest, just the most disruptively annoying. I had managed to minimise the night noise intrusion, by setting the "set back temp" to 10*.. & ending the heat period at 9pm. Just so I could sleep. With the big caveat of not having any heat in house 1st thing AM (as I am forced to start the heat cycle coinciding with my alarm, 7.30). The added disadvantage of this, is unlike evening when I can ramp the temp up from say 18* daytime 'lukewarm' house setting to 21* by turning a knob, then 1 hr later noticing room warming & rads up to temp, because its had to be put to '10* set back temp' overnight, it takes twice the time to get rads up to speed. So, effectively useless if I want to leave house at 8.30 for eg: house still cold. But also, a few days ago the pump woke me 6AM for its infuriating on/off/on 3 mins awfulness. So I have no confidence going to bed it'll be silent overnight at all anymore. So I'm on tenterhooks sleeping = stress. In conclusion I know only now, that the system can only work, & is only designed to work thus: it has to be in heating mode 24 hrs a day, which includes overnight periods the rads will come on albeit less frequently than the 'heating periods' we all like (for eg 6.30 am-8.30 am and 6pm-9pm), in order for the rads to work properly. IE it -has- to be continuously in standby mode dipping in & out to feed the rads 24/7 including overnight just as the day (there is no extra 'night time' setting available). This might be fine if A) the boiler & cylinder are sited well away from beds, and B) you like warm bedrooms overnight, & C) one can afford to run the system 24/7 like so. But for me.. its not fine at all & a total disaster of a design. If I had a wife & child, child using the spare room the boiler & cylinder are in.. it'd be worse: this room (Im told where most go, replacing immersion heaters etc/ old systems) is totally useless even in the day, ruined by the intrusive noise of the equipment. -- I also have only warm-hot HW. It was hot & a great temp, but engineer came (refettling stupidly complicated system to try & reduce noise- to no effect) I think lowering the HW temp a bit. I am tearing my hair out with this pathetic designed system. Pathetic. German too. zoot

Ive just had a pro electrician in to hook up my extention (2 rooms, 3 spurs: sockets/ downlights/ smoke alarms) wiring into an RCBO unit > into my mains. All tested & docs sent to Buildsing Control. The wiring, sockets, lights etc done by a competent other, the pro happy with work. 1st thing I plug in, a drill to do make my steps/ finish off the room.. I do one hole, but pick up to do 2nd it doesn't start. RCBO tripped. Same happens time after time, a few secs/ or sometimes 30secs I can do maybe 3 holes. But go to use & RCBO has tripped, time after time. I try my other drill, exactly same happens. Both drills excellent & never an issue over 10 years. I use extention from adjacent room (main part of house/ separate circuit).. both work fine. Pro comes back, tests the socket I used, 25mA & trips.. as it should be he says/ no fault. Also tests rest of house.. 27mA trips/ fine. He says it can only be the drill. But I told him I tried 2x, & ruled them out catagorically at fault if both work fine via an extention from adjacent room. This is concerning: I have routers/ similar motor unit tools to use in my new workshop. impossible to work/ use it if constantly tripping. thx zoot.

Another question/ different tack. Back to my workshop below this ^ room; I was thinking of dividing it with a simplest partition wall & door (once signed off). So like 2/5ths the room area as you enter, 3/5ths the onward room (routers etc). Its sole function is to keep power tool dust out of the smaller 'clean' 1st room. What springs to mind now, & if it work's dependent on the vac (maybe like a festool portable, or Clarke 2hp job.. IE how effective & strong it is at eliminating/ minimising dust is key).. is more of a 'curtain' partition instead, surely far simpler to make. Pull it back > go in & pull behind etc. But Ive no idea if feasable to build something like so. Or if it would be any less faff to build. If it was -clear- then the added benefit of getting window light to this end (nothing if a solid wall for eg). One smallish window only in this room as a whole, its next to main entry door. It does mean I keep the room 'whole'.. I'm slightly concerned building a timber/ pB wall if I'll sort of ruin the room by cramping it all. If a vac is super good I could pull back partition when not in there, opening the room back up. Any ideas?

@Roundtuit damn, wish I'd known of the architrave vertical idea before the huge faff of cornering the pB edges here. Anyway I'm loathed to cover them now you see/ kinda proud of them. Would there be anything I could run up at this junction as a compromise, just up to the top of the skirting instead?

@Roundtuit hey that's pretty groovy! I think that's an easier method of skirting on the top & middle steps/ less material & effort than joe90's idea (tho I do like his slope). But the door lining you put in the wrong spot (door @ the junction of adjacent room carpet & my top step ply). I'm a bit loathed to put an architrave vertical edge here too: I spent so damn long fashioning these wall corners, & they do look smart as is. So I'd like to follow your idea along top step > down > across on the 2nd step. And also your skirt around the wide 3rd step (maybe too). But I need to somehow meet these two skirts -without- a vertical architrave between. Also how can I cut my existing wall skirt @ 45* in situ, if I do the skirt around wide 3rd step too. Hmm.. thanks alot for that- fab resource to do that (assuming you've not nipped in & grafitti'd my upstairs- yet to look

@Ferdinand I think I get the gist cheers. I will have about 10" gap tho to wall from end of my 3.66m w'board, so I think Im too far away to do your idea? maybe put something in gap to approximate it, & fish an offcut out a skip s'time to finish. It is a workshop, so perfect isn't needed.. but be good to do a tidy job tho.

@joe90 very grateful for that sketch joe- understood. Quite a tricky job then! should be ok. If the door frame's to go on (door @ the carpet/ top step ply meet) & the frame side pse 'strips' & trim xyz to add above the 1st ~4" of the new ply.. shouldn't this be done 1st, the skirting to fit to it afterwards? IE not much point whacking this skirt on next is it.. I'm preparing my ape brain for the frame & door job next.. forgot about this!

@joe90 reporting back, done me steps. Really do need skirting now as there are gaps galore at sides, knock thru walls uneven etc. The pB to wall glue is excellent for general wood to wall btw. quite pleased, but by god took a whole week..

@Ferdinand hi there. Sorry but I can't quite follow your suggestion/ to what exactly you're referring to in the 1st sentence. I am quite thick. Ive now got 2x 3.66m of 244mm window board.. just arrived (maybe that negates your suggestion Ferdinand- I'm not sure). I've also made my 3 steps (taken a whole week!!) just gotta fix them down. Is Soudal plasterboard adhesive suitable to fix 12mm ply [and/ or mdf] to concrete? can't see it a heap different to pB > concrete (& it does say on can 'various wood to walls' is mdf "wood"?). Cant think how else to fix it. This being my top step. Pics later. ipad! woohoo!

Sorry to harp on.. but more noise issues with my split ASHP. For some reason I'm noticing -alot- more outside compressor noise (the box outside) so much that I can hear it all around my house exterior in fact & very irritating too, 20m away its intrusive for eg, in one spot as its a vibration thing there are resonant frequency 'patches' where its really prominent. the fan is fine. Also some of this noise is being transmitted out & in through the windows (a floor above it) into my upstairs. So I have this damn compressor noise entering my house A) via pipes > boiler > transmitted along pipes > to cylinder, & now B) externally up & in through window. And a motor within the boiler noise too, totally separate/ often both in conjunction. Right now in kitchen I have an incessant background drone & its unliveable with. And the frequency of the damn thing firing up/ off/ on/ off will only ramp up when its cold.. its fairly mild now. Omfg.