zoothorn

Ok nod thanks. Maybe nogs is the best way, but for a humble workshop which if did get hairline cracks maybe I could just whip over, I think I'm gonna scrimp it & go nod's non-nog nod. Onoff's gonna go fkn apesh*t tho. I'm putting on my ear muffs!

Hi Nod, ok thanks that clarifies things. Yes I'm only asking about my ceiling, if 12.5mm 'soundblock' (non foiled) is ok. I understand its not a void-above type. Its the bottom layer (forming the ceiling of a lower small workshop room) of a dividing floor, for a new bedroom above. No need for nogs on my 400 joist centres for 15mm pB -definitely- (I understood you said this).. but 12.5mm, too? can you just confirm?

Hi Nod, so to confirm 12.5 (not foil backed) is ok as long as its skimmed? (its the addition/ or not of the foil, is my Q). Ok "400 centres unsupported 600 centres have to be nogged".. I'm racking my head trying to comprehend. I'm back on that table-of-hell-wtf-am-I-meant-to-be-understanding-here. My joists are 400 centres, as I understand. But "Unsupported" 600 centres.. & I'm suddenly completely lost. thanks, zH

Yes- will be skimming it. So does that mean skimming is inherrantly a vapour-barrier as well as a nice-finishing layer, so maybe the foil is just an added belt n braces sort of thing? I remember my builder saying ceiling pB (std 12.5mm stuff to plaster over) should be foil-backed.. but -why- I didn't ask, or expect any answer bar "its a vapour barrier". I wonder why my floor above isn't foil-backed then, esp being chipboard, if the 'fallible' softwood joists are just under them: this means my bedroom above has walls & ceiling foiled.. but the floor not.

Can someone advise: I cannot get hold of Fireline pB (or std pB) suppliers are waitiing months for restock > get out to likes of me. So my BCO has said I can go 'Soundblock' 12.5mm pB. The only pB I can get locally now. Ok so no problem for my workshop walls.. not much difference in price or extra kg/ board over Fireline. But doesn't the ceiling -have- to be foil backed? or will I be ok using 'soundblock' pB on the ceiling too? Anyone used this stuff? thanks zH

@Onoff ok understood & explained. By god I stared at that table tho, all noggins/ joist figs / pB figs (as this was what was being discussed) trying to figure out what it was I was meant to be deciphering from it. nevermind! It is fairly traumatic, yes, trying to understand replies/info for me. Many words & terms I've no knowledge of, but its often the establishing when someone might have moved on from a suggestion onto another (or not: or are they on the same point-?) with innevitable confusion & miscoms that results, nevermind trying to understand gyproc tech meant for BCO's & engineers: yes it can be difficult! Nothing compared to that build tho/ having to deal with that builder, & what he's decided to build instead of as agreed, even if it does look good.

Sorry another Q @ProDave.. were you doing this 'floating nog' idea on taper-edge boards? obviously less strong than SE boards here. I am going Straight-edge boards for the ceiling.

Aha ok so my thinking wasn't unfoundered than. Right time for some tests on offcuts. I guess the better the screw/ sharper likely to be. Have you had any nogs that did this on you?

@ProDave thinking on your 'floating' noggins idea (or noggings.. have I had that wrong all along?). To get the nog on the 1st boards edge, is easy/ you could even use a clamp/ screw twice in. But once you close the gap with the other board, you do not have ability to clamp. So surely without being clamped firm, your 2nd board screws will push the nog up not drive into it-? IE surely the concern is (esp as you can't see what's going on) the nog will push up, & the other board's edge will damage. Or are you relying purely on the very sharp point on these screws to slice into the nog with very minimal 'pushing-up' pressure? (& the other two fixings help of course keeping it down). Thanks- zH

Nope I'm not having this AB. I missed the point of what Onoff was getting at -not- because I wasn't processing due to the lectured-reasons you say, but, because as I believe it was Onoff testing to see if I could 'find the clue' (I suspect was the reason he didn't refer directly to the info that was given -within- the bigger picture) rather than 'look, btm, where it says xyz' which as a novice to all this, I actually need. I'm not keen at all on this condascending tone with bullet-points picking at personal inadequacies AB. Its not needed, or helpful. Just let me get on with my thread alone, please. If I flounder away & you can see it, maybe just try & help & forget the criticising eh? its what the others who offer help invariably do; but you seem the exception. And the only one a moderator. Mmm.. now, what conclusions do -I- draw from this that I could eleaborate into a condascending few lines & press 'send' -? Thanks- zH

No no, its 3 weeks now to get the pB I think. I'm only just able to order (1+ week prep on how-to-do-job, so my pB choice, plus sorting cabin xyz to add on order) let alone start it. prolly 30 min prep for you. Ok understand clearer you're suggestion is therefore a better finish than my builder's done. Ok got it. Which to my brain is sort of counter-intuitive tho if he's a pro & I'm a novice, but I do see the logic (mainly makes me concerned re. the pB he's done tho, if it looks shoddy to me..). thanks- zH

Right thanks AB. That's some clarification. But the suggestion is, that the table provides answers not some smallprint additional info that I wasn't processing, because I was focussing so hard on the table. I totally agree I have to think for myself etc. And that the replies are in good faith & I'll say this till the cows come home (apart from the chippy sniping at s'one just for not understanding that is). Hugely appreciated, but can sometimes not be too clear though. Is that what the -whole/ & sole- point of @Onoff 's post then, just & solely this smallprinted sentence-? or was there additional stuff in the screenshot info I have meant to process?

Can anyone say whether that table tells me I need them or not? Ive looked at it for so long.. I just cannot understand. the wordings of these building tech tables/ seems utterly ambiguous to me. My joist centres are 400mm. As far as my brain can process, the table says only 6mm board requires noggins. Is this what Onoff is suggesting now-?? chrissakes this is doing my nut in.

I've looked at the pB job done upstairs (by builder) as surely this has to be a reference-point job for me. Surely if he's a pro & assuming its been done ok/ up to BRegs standard. I know that joist centres are 400mm, & (crucially it seems to me, tho not mentioned) only 50mm wide. What I find is gaps between fixings, on the long edges of board, all over the ceiling. So what can I conclude from this, its been done wrong?

@Onoff ok just seen this info- very informative. But I cannot make any sense of it, relative to the noggin suggestion you've been saying needs doing. This seems weird.. so likely not right. Or are you eluding to the fact that it says I do not need them, after all-?? Ok, unless I'm mistaken (highly probable) I read that I do not need noggins, with my 12.5mm board, looking at the table above, because it says 450mm Joist centres. And mine are 400mm (and surely they're being very wide @ 100mm is inherrant to the need, but this doesn't seem relevant). So I'm not sure either what you are eluding to the answer should be, or able to see any other info on the table that contadicts what you have been suggesting I do. So I am in a further heap of confusion. And so I'm quite sure this reply will make you go insane. Could you not say "look.. it says you need noggins" ? then I could ask 'I don't see that, can you explain for me? because doesn't it tell me that -I don't- need noggins?' (then you might answer 'no.. because A, B, C'. I might then say 'Aha ok got it!! thx').

@Onoff so what all of 2 mins? I spent ages/ trawled pages w'search box! slope ground work log cabin etc etc. Youre just more adept using it/ know what build lingo likely then (& not being thick is a major headstart too).

Hi Onoff. that's impressive.. thanks. You must have one heck of a memory.

Hi all. back onto this job. I need to put a layer ontop of my base here, for my t&g log cabin to go on. [2.5 m square cabin, front will face twds white bag, single noggins below (front 'deck' next to white bag, has double noggins)]. It was suggested I think, but I've searched in vain.. OSB, PIR, & an outer 3x2 'frame'. I think idea was 3x2 outer frame > PIR/ OSB inside it, just resting ontop my base (or PIR friction-fit in joists 1st?). Was it a @PeterW idea I wonder: can anyone shed any light? (pun sadly intended). Thanks- zH

@ProDave aha this seems a good compromise, I get the idea. So they just provide a stabler 'meet' of boards to preventing any shifting of the edges. I am going 12.5mm Fireline (straight-edge) boards though. Not T-Edge, so the boards maybe a bit sturdier on this long edge? (& BCO said Firelines are denser, so again sturdier than std 12.5mm). Still think I need any 'noggins' ? I'm loathed to call him up in case he says 'yup/ whole hog/ joist-fixed-nogs pls'.. & he cannot tell surely once the ceiling up, if I didn't do exactly this but instead go your idea. thanks, zoot

No only this 3.8 x 4m low ceiling to do, with just 3 full boards to put up. Id have bought one if I had another ceiling to do by now. I'm out of work so I need to £save every scrap. I can maybe ask s'one to help lift up the 3 full boards > pin. Then I can maybe go alone, with hooks idea to get the rest up.

No I went for a very long walk- wasn't feeling too great tbh. I will do tmrw. Ok- will not pm you

@CC45 that board lifter's the one mentioned before I think, nice one thanks. Its just shifting the bugger-on after via post the snag, being way out wild west here. I did find a fine diy idea, using 2 hooks, in the clip I put up (^) so I'm gonna try this 1st & if it goes t*ts up.. (only 2060 H damn low/ in my favour for the job). I do have a carrier placcy handle. cheers alot. zoot

Hi AB. Much appreciated reply from you! The thing I can't concur with (& the chief reason I'm asking if nogs neccessary) is with my posi-joists the logistics of putting even 1 in, isn't 'next to no effort' as far as I can judge but the opposite, 'next to impossible'. If its a 50mm W 'stud' joist.. nogs are a breeze. 100mm W posi-types with alu sides to complicate fixing access tho.. & I'm up against it. I think I'm gonna have to just go against Onoff's suggestion (even if it means hairline cracks- I can cope if only tiny) which is sacriledgeous & I'm ashamed & will tar & feather my nether regions pronto. But what can I do?

Can anyone help me out here? Do I need noggins or not, between pozi-joists. As far as I can tell its dependent on A) distance between joists, & B) the thickness of plasterboard. Youtube pro clips using 15mm board, 100mm joists @ 600mm centres.. & no noggins. So wouldn't this be comparable to me using 12.5mm board, 100mm joists @ 400 centres? Anyway for many reasons (alu side frame being one & 100mm W of joist to get thru being two) I can barely get one in, let alone 24x. But are they needed in my case, is going without a problem? Onoff mentioned joint 'cracks' which is alarming. Thanks- zoot.

@Onoff this clip I saved of a chap Ive seen many clips of, seems very experienced to me. Now his joist spacings look wider (maybe 400 centres, but only 50mm wide joists) & I don't see noggins. So therefore I gotta ask why not. If I discount him doing it wrong.. it implies, maybe, that you're recommendation is very good, but perhaps isn't entirely neccessary (esp for my humble workshop ceiling) ? would it be maybe more apt for top-notch-standard main rooms I wonder? I just don't know what to do/ how to proceed right now. I'd appreciate any general thoughts chaps..