LA3222

This seems to be an interesting development. I don't think it would be wrong of me to say that a lot of members on here have been persuaded of the benefit of a SunAmp by primarily @JSHarris and the feedback you provided as an early adopter and then @Nickfromwales who has also beaten the SunAmp drum. Equally a lot of people are now having doubts about SunAmp because of JSHarris feedback of the new system. It seems that SunAmp recognise the impact that the feedback you provide has JSHarris and you have become a 'champion' for the forum members in righting the problem. From a selfish pov, I hope you have some joy in sorting the problem as I am one of the 'converts' and hope this issue is sorted by the time I need to part with hard cash!! I suspect the struggle will take a while!

@ProDave mentions DNOs not being fussy, equally though the opposite can apply. The only way you can find out what will be accepted is by speaking to your DNO. Everyone can say what they did but it may be about as much use as a chocolate teapot to you if your DNO won't accept it. FWIW I built a permanent kiosk - but the DNO gave specific instructions on what is acceptable - even going so far as to sending me a CAD drawing of an acceptable design! You're looking at the best part of £2000 as is....I'd say that's a bargain compared to bills some get stung with. I'm sure I've seen 21k banded about on here by someone. Speak to the DNO. Not sure how yours works, I had an engineer I could contact - very helpful chap.

Just want to run this by the forum to get a collective opinion. I have a contractor due to put a foul run in for me which will consist of an IC on my plot with approx 30m of pipe then connecting to the main sewer via a junction insert. The invert of the sewer is 3m. The contractor is going to put the IC invert at 1.5m so the foul run gradient will be 1:20 - is this going to cause blockages? I'm sure I have read within this forum that the conventional thinking that 1:40 is no longer mentioned within building regs as the max, so in theory there is no max gradient. However it's hard to get that conventional thinking out of my head and accept that it will all be ok! TIA Jamie

I've been paying about £12 per m3 for muckaway recently - however the lorry has been dropping off aggregate at the same time, so having the lorry onsite for a delivery no doubt drops the cost down. Can you tie in aggregate deliveries with muckaway?

Righto, not sure if it helps but your tale bears similarities to my own. The lane to my plot serves 3 properties, it is an unmade, unadopted and also a public right of way. No one knows who owns it - my solicitor and everyone tried to find out but to no avail. My solicitor then had some legal letter from their solicitor to say access had been established and on going for yonks so the right to access had been established and there is no drama. I had no reason not to believe him but chose to pay for an indemnity myself...peanuts at £160. So the right to services saga. I didn't know if the utilities would have the necessary wayleaves etc to dig up the lane to lay a new connection if the owner was unknown. Applied for water and they said ok, crack on and find the main, lay a pipe to it and we will connect. So they weren't bothered so I weren't either. Electric would not give an answer as to whether they could provide a connection until I actually paid to get one in. Spoke to their wayleaves department, everything to no avail. Soo...to solve this we exchanged contracts on the proviso if an electric supply was not forthcoming then all bets off. I paid the cash, spoke to the engineer and their wayleaves department - they looked, couldnt find who owned it and basically said "feck it - nay bother, we will dig the lane (70m) and put your supply in, if someone complains then we will deal with it then". Cool, the lane is only 3m wide, so let the neighbours know, they are sound as a pound, the ramblers just had to deal with it. The guys came out, laid the cable and jobs a good en. Water was a saga....i dug loads of the lane up and couldn't find it - the main turned out to be in the neighbours garden! Anglian dug the lane up trying to find it without giving two hoots who owned it. They were only bothered at the top in case they dug council owned land. Soooo, long story short....it was a lot of hassle trying to find out who owned it but from a utilities pov they didn't care. Do your due diligence to satisfy yourself and go from there. At some you need to decide to take the plunge or walk away but only you can decide what the risk means to you - acceptable or not. As an aside I have sewerage getting dug in soon once Anglian tell me I can proceed - again the contractor sees it as a bonus in not having to bother with road permits and the like. I showed him where I want to connect and he said nay bother! Good luck.

Another train of thought is why have a wc in the main bathroom at all? I personally hate having a 'bog' in the room where I want to have a relaxing bath. Equally I hate that when people use it they don't always put the lid down so God knows what crap is projecting into the air and settling on the bath, the sink, toothbrushes etc. Most houses nowadays have loads of ensuites and a downstairs toilet - no need for one in the bathroom aswell? I don't I tend to do so, but maybe that's just me ?

Well this is a real pickle for SunAmp and p**s poor communication from them. I dare say a lot of self builders are going to reconsider things in light of the current situation - I suspect they don't care though.

So if I am reading what you say correctly @JSHarris unless you deplete the SA sufficiently during the day it will not charge when you need it to. So if you do a reset in the morning but not enough PV is generated and you use it again in the evening there's a danger of no HW in the morning. Therefore to make sure you have enough HW would require a twice daily reset. Madness. I was very keen to use SA for both my DHW and UFH. The more I read the less likely I am to do so now.

On the left hand side of that table you have a list of various access points....along the top you have the lost of 'to' access points. So....inspection chamber shallow 'to' inspection chamber is 45m. Not trying to be patronising...thats how I read the table. Maybe others read it differently? I'm not sure how IC to IC is ever 22m?

So that's one thing not to worry about. I'm happy with SIP in general, I think I am inclined to add a VCL despite what suppliers state. The foundation is yet to be decided but it seems that as I am likely having strip foundations it will require some careful attention.

@JSHarris your mention of decrement delay reminded me that I had a query there. I know that with blown cellulose you have a rather large D.D. When I crunched the numbers with my intended wall build up I had a figure of just under 12hours - this seems more than enough to me or am I looking at this wrong? With 12hrs, by time house temperature twitches it will cool down outside?

@oranjeboom I'm not saying 'don't insulate the soleplate', I'm trying to get my head around why industry don't recognise it as the issue that self builders believe? I think some of the bigger SIP companies have been operating in the UK for a long enough time now to have looked into this? Thanks for the link @JSHarris, I knew rebuild was no longer accessible - didn't think about archives! One issue I see cropping up is the presence of timber studs within SIP creating cold bridges. I acknowledge this to be true, but then don't all TF have studs at 600 centres creating cold bridges (except Larson Truss, I Joists etc) so I don't see this as an issue (I may be wrong in this regard) as it surely performs better than standard TF? The sole plate being cold seems to crop up a lot. As I see it, this is a problem for anyone building in timber who doesn't use an Insulated Raft foundation? rather than a 'SIPs problem'. So from the threads I have seen, if you don't have an Insulated Raft foundation, the way to keep a TF (I say TF as this problem applies to a standard TF as much as it does SIP?) sole plate as warm as possible is to sit it on a marmox block and wrapped in insulation inside and out? On another note, when I mentioned marmox blocks to one of the companies I am in talks with they didn't seem keen. Concerns about the ability of marmox blocks to resist lateral loads? The marmox website shows it as being suitable for under sole plates? I appreciate the discussion - it helps to focus the mind somewhat. Ta Jamie

I wondered who would be the first to say it's reasonably well preserved all things considered. Don't know why the Mary Rose popped into my head, but I liked it and went with it? I may need to take the Mary Rose approach and just permanently submerge my soleplate and not expose it to air....maybe that will work? If my soleplate lasts 100 yrs I'm ok with that....not my problem then....unless the secret to immortality is discovered?

That's pretty much the point I'm making - the manufacturers do it one way yet you read self build forums and are left thinking the sole plate is going to rot like the Mary Rose and the house will collapse!! Why the disparity in thinking?

I've already seen that video @scottishjohn but I don't think it really clears things up. The thing I'm trying to understand is the discrepancy between what the manufacturers say regarding sole plates etc and what you read on self build forums.

Did you have any push back from the SIP company regarding the sole plate sitting on marmox? One company I'm talking to want a dense block underneath it as a stronger medium for the fixings to go into. Two companies I'm talking to at the minute both say that VCL not necessary, likewise insulating the someplace is not required. I'm on the what harm can it do to implement these things bus! I can do a VCL with the insulation and a perimeter skirt for the sole plate - if not necessary, what harm in doing So? My overall impression is that these companies have been banging SIPs houses up for a long time now, surely if the sole plate was an issue then industry would have worked that out by now? It seems the doubt about it is limited to the self build world - is it really a thing or just FUD?

It's useful to see a positive spin on SIPs. How did you deal with the sole plate and insulating it from condensation? The general solution I see mentioned appears to be an insulation skirt wrapping it. If you had to start over would you use SIP again? Are there any things to watch out for when it's being erected? Any tips or such you could give? I'm not committed to SIPs yet, but it is where I'm leaning and unless I learn something which drastically changes my opinion it's what I'll use. It is not the cheapest - but I believe that what it offers is worth that additional initial outlay.

So you did use a VCL then @oranjeboom The company I'm considering replied yesterday to say that provided it's erected correctly and a ventilation system is used, a VCL is not required. I don't like the idea of not using one. I intend to add an internal layer of Kingspan insulation which if the joins are taped acts as a VCL. I'm considering using this approach to create a VCL - not sure if this is the best way to skin this particular cat yet though.

Just been doing a bit of reading and the answer seems inconclusive. Some say a seperate VCL is still required with SIPs whilst others suggest that as long as the seams are taped then the SIP structure itself will perform as a VCL. I'm interested in hearing what members who used SIPs did in this regard. TIA Jamie

Sorry, when I say claim it back, I mean from the aggregate company. I never asked for it to be zero rated as I didn't think it could be. I was always under the impression that broadly speaking VAT should not be paid only if: 1. It forms part of the fabric of the build. 2. If services are included to fit/operate etc. I.e. concrete pump is VAT chargeable. Concrete pump plus operator is zero rated. I'm not looking to claim it back - it's £75 to me in this instance. I was a little confused that the OP in their blog stated that they got muckaway costs zero rated. Was that luck on their behalf or have I missed a trick??

I have just seen talk of muckaway being zero rated on a blog - didn't want to hijack the blog so started this thread! It was my understanding that muckaway isn't zero rated yet a couple of comments seem to suggest it could be - I just want to explore this further. So if say you hire truck plus driver I would hazard it is zero rated as the driver is providing a service - their service is zero rated, so all of it is? In my situation I didn't hire a driver or truck. When I had 20T of aggregate delivered they let me fill the truck up with muckaway for the princely sum of £120+vat. As I didn't specifically hire the truck/driver for this task am I correct in thinking VAT does apply and therefore I can't claim it Back? To be fair it is only £72 total in vat, so I am not too fussed - more a point for clarification. Ta Jamie

@Carrerahill that smells like the erection team had no experience of the system. I'd like to think the companies around now either have in house teams or ones which they have used before and are familiar with the system. I don't think that issue is unique to SIPs, regardless of the system, if they are unfamiliar with it then those problems will occur. @mike2016 I don't have any experience of SIPs. Having had a brief look at those videos it seems they have rough sized panels that they are tweaking onsite to fit. Seems a bit strange to me when one of the selling points of SIP is that it is basically a big jigsaw. Precision made off site reay to just slot together. Surely such extensive adjustment would not be required onsite? Generally speaking I would say that the problems highlighted about SIPs on this forum can equally apply to any TF construction method. It would be useful to hear the gen dit from people who have actually used this system. Unfortunately they seem to be scarce on this forum. I'm not a SIPs shill, I'm just after some feedback from the 'horses mouth' so to speak, to give a balanced view. It will help me and no doubt others in the future.

Right, it strikes me there is little information on this forum from self builders who have used SIPs regarding how they found the whole experience. I appreciate a couple of members who used SIPs have got blogs up documenting their self build journey as a whole but im thinking this forum could use a thread specifically about how they found SIPs. The good, the bad, what they would recommend, anything would change. How have they found a SIPs house to live in - would they use SIPs again? I have come full circle now back to SIPs and hearing some members actual experiences rather than anecdotal evidence would be great. ?

Pretty sure I used digdat iirc. Think was around £12 each for foul clean and elec.

I have had quotes from Kore, AFT and build lite. Funnily enough they are all very similar in price for supply only of the insulation - around £9k delivered for approx 170m2. One of them gave a supply and install quote of about £24k whilst the other supply and install quote was with a TF company who do the frame also which came in at £34k for the slab. Both of the supply/install included all components and ancils. It also included supply and lay of 150mm hard-core for the sub base. Anything outside of this is yours to sort out so if your ground conditions aren't favourable more excavation/hard-core may be necessary at your cost. UFH would be an extra £2k.