curlewhouse

e-mail sent today when I realised my plan to lay screed has gone bust because I have to remove plasterboard and the UFH manifold as he wants to see behind the plasterboard - so this weekends progress is lost . I've also left a message on his phone telling him he is not to enter our property any more until we have resolved this. Sent to senior BCO and the BCO himself. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear XXX & YYY I think we have reached a point where something needs to be done. XXX expressed concerns about SIPs construction on his very first visit to the site and queried at that stage with me if Kingspan SIPs "are an approved method of construction" (they have BBA stickers all over the panels)- this rang alarms bells to be honest as did several other questions such as was our site at finished ground level - the place is rutted, with soil heaps and so on, so obviously not. Since that time XXX, it has become increasingly obvious that you are very concerned about the SIPs method and have made me make several enquiries with both the erectors and the manufacturers (KIngspan). It is simply a different method of timber frame at its basic level really. However, we assumed XXX is possibly new in the work, so fair enough, and as we know, the norm and ideal is that you work *with* your BCO and they help you get to the correct results (name of firm seem to think the relationship is that you stop the build at every chance). However, I have had to waste much time doing research and asking frankly embarrassing questions of the suppliers (which even I as a non expert knew the answer to), and this situation is getting worse if anything with an entire day lost today out of 2 days this weekend, which will mean I will have to continue working late into the night on Sunday to catch up - and I'm up at 5 am for work the next day! So believe me, whilst it may be no problem for yourselves to mess a customer around, or even funny, it causes me huge problems - and you seem to forget,I'm PAYING you. We lost a few days last week when we could have been progressing the VCL but had to stop as XXX was concerned re the exact spacing of staples holding the VCL in place, although the VCL we already had put up cannot fall off and the joints are sealed with the correct tape and an excess of 150mm overlaps. Sure enough, XXX, after I'd spent hours trying to find something on this instead of progressing our house build and told you so, you came back with the exact answer I'd told you from the start. So that time was lost for nothing. I'm sure that's fine to you folks with a house, but we are in a freezing cold caravan trying to get this done before it gets much colder (-7 here one night last week!) and your wasting my time day after day after day. Today I have to take down plasterboard which was screwed *and* glued into place because name of firm did not send me the inspection schedule so ambushed me with a demand to see behind it - this "ambush" method of inspection, i.e waiting until the *customer* has done it then demanding it be undone or stopped so silly questions can be checked is a terrible way to do it. I have queried these issues in National self build forums (don't worry, to date I have not named your company) and *no one* else has had a BCO stop work for issues like this. No one - not one of them. In fact, when I asked about staple spacing some people thought I was joking! There is being risk averse, and taking it beyond practicality. Not passing us the inspection details for the warranty and thus allowing us to do work which then has to be undone is simply out of order - that's not XXXs fault of course, but the fact I had to ASK to get that document (I obtained it about a day before you sent it to me Mr YYY) just adds insult to injury as you would have happily continued doing that to us at every piece of work we had done - I was going to say until the end, but of course the build can never end whilst you keep stopping us like this. We were *not* sent a copy of it originally. Today, instead of putting a screed in, I have to remove plasterboard, depressurise the UFH system, remove the manifold, spoiling the pipe joints and so on, because name of firm chose not to tell us about the "pre plaster" inspection until AFTER you knew we'd put plasterboard up! I have asked you already to tell us what work you will not allow us to do to avoid these issues in future - no response. So clearly more ambushes like that one in store. Now we almost dare not do anything as you are clearly just going to make up a rule about it *after* we've done it and make us destroy it/remove it/undo it. This latest issue about staple spacing for example suggests we are going to have to plot and measure every nail, screw, dot of glue and so on in the place, or else you'll wait until we've done it to come back and demand it removed or stopped or I contact the screw manufacturer to ask if they were meant to be used on SIPs - its getting that silly. This nonsense has to stop, or else you need to refund us and we'll find another company whose intent is not to prevent the build. In these actions you are not providing the service we paid for. Keeping the build correct is fine, stopping it repeatedly, making up rules after work has been done and expecting the customer to do the work of the BCO is not. I recognise Mr YYY from your email that you consider a "non standard build" apparently places a duty on the *customer* to do all the research and to know all the stuff a BCO is supposed to know - (who is being paid to know that stuff by the *customer*), but I have to disagree that in the year 2017 SIPs is so different that it places the entire duty on the customer and that a BCO need know nothing unless the customer stops the build completely and does the research for him or her - then waits for an answer, all the while with work stopped.. We need this job done properly and no more of these delays and work stoppages. So, can we discuss how to proceed - we need to build a house and I do not believe that you would keep stopping a builder or larger developer. If you have yet more special rules all of name of firm own about staples, screws, glue, or anything else that differs from published regs, then you need to tell me *now*, not afterwards. If someone can either ring me on Monday to progress this, or return us our warranty fee as you are not currently doing what we've paid for (we did not pay you to repeatedly stop the build or add rules no one else in the UK does) then that will be fine. Ideally, you'll stop with the secret rules and ambushes, start helping us, and we can actually build this house together.

Its not, I already checked. The BCO eventually came back to me and admitted there is nothing in writing from the manufacturer of the VCL or of the SIPs (he clearly has not worked with SIPs before and even queried if they are an approved building method!).

Well there are exta stages because of the warranty. The next one is "pre plastet" but he will not pass that unless we do all this stuff and any extras he thinks up. I spoke to him last night and said that if I have to measure and report every single staple, screw etc in the place he's basically closing down our build as we'd be on for years.He agreed to find out Kingspan approved VCL stapling distance (I'll be utterly amazed if they have such a thing - I mean why would they?) when I said I wasn't willing to ask stupid questions on his behalf any more. Standard overlap seems to be about 150mm but nowhere can I find a recommended stapling distance - not unaturally as its a bloody stupid question -but remember this is just his latest fixation and as he can refuse to approve the house for the purpose of the warranty he has us over a barrel. I'm now at the position of not knowingly what work we dare do that he won't make up a rule about! *** update *** just picked up a message from him - surprise surprise Kingspan don't have a specification for how far apart VCL staples have to go (and why the hell would they? ) as long as it's firmly fixed and overlaps taped (you mean exactly how I started doing it before you stopped me!) - you couldn't make this sh** up! ?

Well, the latest is he insist I contact the sips company (yet again - at each visit he thinks of new questions which he insists *I* send to the SIPs firm - sometimes really stupid questions - it's embarrassing . Despite paying this building control Co. I'm obviously expected to provide their BCOs education too! ) and ask them how far apart the staples should be which hold the VCL on.... I kid you not. I've pointed out that as long as it is secured properly in such a manner so it sag or won't fall off, surely that's sufficient? oh no, he wants an exact, down to the mm statement of how far apart each staple should be. I spoke to him this afternoon and told him he is basically stopping us building the house - if I have to account for every single screw and nail position in the house and seek his permission and cross check with the sips company at every single part of the construction we'll quite literally never get finished. At my wits end with this guy. He seems *determined* not to allow us to get to where we can put plasterboard on for some reason. Amazingly his boss claims it's MY responsibility to find all this stuff out for the BCO!

We had to for the mortgage unfortunately, and chose the same company as are doing our BC work - they were not the cheapest, but it seemed a good idea to be dealing with one guy (BCO) - which has then turned into a bit of a nightmare with him even querying BBA certified materials every bloody step of the way and making me do pointless things and make embarrassingly simple enquiries with firms (just one example "are SIPS an "approved" method of building", despite the BBA stickers all over them - I kid you not!) . Its sheer bad luck in the individual we've ended up with though I suspect, not the principle, and if we don't play ball, we get no warranty and I'm not sure what the Building Society would make of that since its a condition. Wasting many hours of my very precious time though. If I had cash to build, no way would I be getting a warranty as we never plan to move from here.

Given the quality of the builds compared to what we on this forum all show can be done for less money, the hardest part must be for the developers not to keep sniggering as people queue up to hand their money over.

When I was on the committee of a local nature reserve where we used to live, we bought picnic benches made of this stuff and despite a few serious attempts by local yobs, they were unable to get them to catch fire. I don't know what it was had been added to the plastic, but they were far less flammable than say wood. Seems a good use of waste material - though given that my BCO thinks SIPs are wildly exotic and keeps sending me back to question the suppliers every time he's visited so far, and even questions things with a BBA certificate, God knows what nonsense you'd go through being one of the first to build with something in the UK.

I've got 2 pairs of lee cooper work trousers which are great, and the pad pockets are such that I don't even notice the pads when walking around- in fact I've forgotten they were in a couple of times and they've gone through the wash with them in. So comfortable that I just keep them.in all the time.

I recognise the slow drive-by brigade, some of which have had us wondering if they are scumbags checking out to see if there's anything to pinch, but most are clearly just curious/nosey. The comments we've had from locals and passersby have all been complimentary, though I am getting weary of repeatedly answering the question "so when will you move in?" - since I don't even know the answer to that one myself. In the early stages we did have to temporarily put a polite sign up to tell people to keep out (despite having the proper building site type notice up) when we were not around, after encountering people we barely know wandering around looking at the trenches and foundations on more than one occasion, though now the building is actually there this has stopped apart from friends and some very helpful neighbours, who are more than welcome.

As demonstrated here CC ?

Lets hope your household porcelain survives the "clunk" when that concrete passes through you

As for an address, we just use the new house address. A quick word with the local postman and it's now on the post office database without the councils demanded £100 "naming" fee (I've found couriers and the postman to be brilliant - with no letterbox they'll leave stuff in a box on-site for me and know my wife works shifts so have been creative about signed-for items for us which would have meant waking her up otherwise - good solid nice guys! Much appreciated). We are using a touring caravan as given how rural we are I wasn't convinced I'd be able to get anyone to come out to buy a static after we finished with it, which happened to someone I know. Our furniture is stored in my parents spare bedroom/s plus quite a bit is in the new house and will just have to be moved around when I lay the floors - a pain, but cheaper than storage (being SIPs it's watertight long before being finished and we did not move on site until the SIPs part was built, so this might not work for everyone).

Yes, my tea habit too when working on the house or our vehicles - I've drunk many a tea-drowned fly on a summers day, cue coughing and spluttering, and god only knows how much plaster, bits of rust, weld spatter etc I've ingested, though I have to say since the waxoil I've not suffered any internal corrosion as far as I know Must learn to look at it before drinking.

Yes, our initial BCO had that approach too since we're a long way from their base, and having met our builder and myself, been familiar with our builders previous work, and heard my own background (electricians, plumbers and joiners in the family) said pictures would be good for him for a few of the things, but unfortunately he left the firm. If it wasn't for the warranty being through these folks I'd swallow the cost and sack them off actually if I could find another BCO firm willing to accept their first inspection certificates, but unfortunately we are tied to them now because of all the money I paid them for the warranty. I cannot even ask him for friendly advice as I'll end up with the most expensive and time consuming option as the answer, then be inspected to the n'th degree on whatever it was (which I probably will be anyway now I've complained). I am convinced he is new to the job and is very risk averse as a result. Its where BCOs who were previously in the building trade are far better as they understand the realities. Its a shame as actually like the guy as a person.

Yes, full plans approval. The senior BCO conveniently avoided answering my point that his BCOs should easily be expected to have heard of SIPs and Kingspan before! The BCO had said he wanted to come back and see inside the walls when they were at first windowsill height, but a week later from me telling him we are at that point has not appeared. I emailed him yesterday pointing out it is now 7 days since I told him that we are at that point and he has not attended and I am not going top stop the build to wait for him, and that I expect in future he turns up in less than 7 days (whilst they've got set timescales of the BCO part, there is no statutory time limit on the warranty inspections of course). Today I got an automatic reply saying he's away on holiday! So I've sent it on to the senior BCO saying its up to them if they want to turn up or not.

As above - switching to electric will alter things a lot. We were originally going for ASHP for our heating, then on going to LPG our rating improved greatly (as did the installation cost - enough to pay for many,many years of gas) The reason I was given was that enough of our electricity is still generated in more polluting ways than using a gas boiler.

Well, his boss basically backed him up and re the use of SIPS said that if a client/builder uses a "non standard " method of construction it's up to them to satisfy the BCO - so obviously BBA certification etc counts for nothing to these guys! So it looks like out goes the just-in-case silicone sealing we applied (just ensuring airtightness) and in goes pointless grouting in sub 1mm gaps (I've ordered a gun to do it). On the plus side I got them to give up the warranty inspection list and it does say "pre plaster" inspection then a final one, so no mention of his half built wall inspection (though I can see a good reason for that one actually - checking wall tie spacing, or snot bridging for instance) and no reply from the BCO when I've pointed out I told him we were ready for that inspection a week ago and I'm *not* telling the builder to stop as 7 days is plenty of notice to come and see.

Two weeks ago today our stonemason started and poor guy it rained heavily from the very first day! In fact, so bad on the first day that I fully expected him to give it a miss, but there he was when I got home from work, grafting away on his own. Being a SIPs build, the roof is already in place, so of course all the rain falling on the surface area of the roof flows straight off - directly onto where he is building the stonework below. So this weekend, I managed to get the fascia board and soffit on, on the East side where he has been most busy. I plan to get the West side done this week, though it will be slower as I'm on my own and can only fit it in after work, plus the ever decreasing daylight hours limit outside work time of course. We are over the moon with how the stonework is looking! On a less progressive note, we are again having issues with our BCO. The same firm is providing our warranty, so two lots of inspections sort of rolled into one from them. when we got the trenches and foundations inspected, I was relieved to find the inspector was a practical guy, who where circumstances meant a slight change of plan took a pragmatic approach, and gave good advice. Come the next stage I rang him and left messages so them emailed him that we were ready but heard nothing back. After 2 weeks of this I contacted the firm - to be told he'd left! Shame no one had the gumption to think it might be wise to tell existing clients or at least check his company email account! Never mind, we got a new inspector. Nice guy, seemed a little nervous, but I increasingly suspect he is new to the job . When I'm asked by a BCO if Kingspan SIPs are an approved building material I do begin to wonder about his experience/knowledge. When I'm asked if the torn up, puddle ridden site mud, about 500mm at best below the DPC and with lumps and bumps plus a pile of topsoil 1.5 metres high in one part of the site is our final ground level, I really begin to wonder. Then I'm, told I must contact Kingspan and ask them what the shrinkage will be - I explain that OSB has (as the name suggests) oriented strands, meaning this is less of an issue, and forwarded him Kingspans technical documents.... but he still wanted ME to ask. In the end I emailed him and suggested that as a BCO, he was more likely to get a detailed answer from Kingspan (and even supplied him their phone number and email) which he did - it's miniscule, and even then he couldn't tell me the relevance to my build of his query! In one part the fabric they put on the SIPS has about a 6" tear. So as it's all stapled on anyway, the guys simply stapled along the tear, holding it closed. Fine? Oh no, on seeing that he insists I contact the erectors and ask if that's the approved method of repair. Now I'm not going to ring anyone up asking what I know to be stupid questions for someone else - you want to ask stupid stuff, you ring them mate. So I just said look, I'll glue it if you'd prefer. Next, where there were , <2mm variations along the soleplate, the SIPs folks used plastic packers - my BCO spots this and asks why is it not grouted, and are the packers sufficient and should it be grouted? Wants me to contact them and ask - two things here, 1. good luck trying to grout in places with sub 1mm gaps and 2. If they think it shouldn't be plastic packers then they wouldn't have put them there would they - and they're not about to say to me, oh yes, we deliberately put the wrong thing in! So I'm just not doing it. It's like I'm educating him - but that's not what I paid the firm for. He's also nit picked at the most silly things I've been polite, and have had a little sympathy for the guy, but the final straw was he'd told me the next bit he wanted to see was when our wall was at ground floor window height - no problem, so I texted him that he could do this early this week, and as a courtesy updated him on progress made inside (1st fix socket circuit complete and 50% of lighting, 1st fix plumbing water supply in, and all the stud walls now have 1 side plasterboard on). The reply I got is that I must not put any plasterboard up as he must do a "pre plaster inspection" and also inspect the electrics. Now unless he is that rare fish, a BCO who is also part P qualified, he is not qualified to inspect electrical installations. So I queried back asking about why my certifying qualified electricians issuing of a Part P certificate will not be enough - no reply. So I've emailed the senior BCO of the company explaining that I'm not happy - a week later and no reply!

Ours used the full architects drawings which are used to build from.

I've used Keylite, a breeze to fit - I got a good deal too by hunting around (I'm happy to let you know who I bought from if you want to PM me).

Our National Park issues a design guide - which when you read it/follow it basically says you can only build a Northumbrian stone farmhouse. As there is a planning committee, then I suppose in some ways its a community decision (though not all on the committee live in the National Park) However, I've no great disagreement with this as since you can still of course use modern materials (like SIPs in our case), double glazing etc (though many older homes here are insanely not allowed to retrofit double glazing, even if its in wooden sash windows which look identical to the rotten ones they replace - but you can bet the folks who made this rule live in warm economical-to-run homes themselves though) and the interior can of course be whatever you wish, and few if any Grand Designs type outer I've ever seen would just not work in this particular landscape. Unfortunately though it does also stop even little quirks like a salvaged small church window I wanted to use on one side. As you can see, they er, stuck rigidly to their own design rules when they built a new visitor centre.....

Whats a shame is all this means I daren't ask him for advice as I know I'd end up being told to do (& thus pay for) far more than is really necessary for any given job. We do wonder if he's new at it, though he's probably in his 40s as some of the questions I've had to answer have actually been quite silly. I've put my concerns down and asked the senior BCO to state up front what inspections the want, and as Jack suggested explained that as a self builder my time is extremely limited to after work and on days off, so bringng my work to a halt is NOT why I employed them.

Well, I've written to the Senior BCO there and explained my issues (tbh I didn't find it easy as I think the guys just inexperienced, and he's certainly friendly in his manner, but enough is enough), so we shall see.

No choice but to have a warranty, its a condition of the mortgage I'm afraid. He's seen the joist hangers already (and already made me put more nails in than the builders have - the builders who have built hundreds of these SIPS houses!) , and there are no concrete beams. I think I maybe have to talk to his boss.

He's talking about a "pre plaster inspection" prior to any plaster board going up now. When he was last on site he said he would not need to come back until our stonework was at first cill height. Presumably he wants to inspect the studwork (Ive only had to build 5 stud walls as the others were put in by the SIPs people and carry load, though they did not put the studs in at the right centres for the plasterboard and used a strange non standard size of timber I've been unable to source in the UK, so the ones I've built are the normal sized timber but that's not an issue) I think I'll have to start politely challenging him along the line Jack suggests - and by email so there is a readable record if I end up having to go over his head.