Roger440

Its still pointless, because government actions (and policies) is driving up prices. Your undeniable fact, flies in the face of reality. Doesnt matter if renewables are free. Prices are still going to go up. Potential? Who cares about that. Its of no consequence or relevance. Essentially, you are just day dreaming. But posting it on here.

Tedious doesnt start to cover it. At the last place, where i lived for 8 years, when i left, the parish council meeting minutes, were essentially the exact same list of issues as the day i moved in. Essentially, with one notable exception, they achieved just about nothing. I dont bother now. Experience tells me its genuinely a complete waste of time. Thats not as it should be, but sadly that is how it is.

But ProDaves point, which you ignored, is that the story we are told, is that renewables will reduce our electricity costs. This is false, or more accurately, a blatent lie, often repeated on here. And its a lie for the very reasons you outlined. As well as specific government policies that see addtional costs tacked on to bills. And those reasons are not going to change. I dont know what this thread is for other than you outlining a non existent uptopia?

Hmmm, trying to achieve perfection. Ive got that problem. Bad. Buying a small holding, has, to some extent, tempered that, as ive been forced to accept with acres of land, house and buildings, it cant all, ever, be perfect. 90% is good enough. Except, when i see some of my 90% jobs, it still annoys me, knowing that i coulod have done better. And knowing, because the roofer never suggested dry verges, and because i wasnt smart enough to know i need them, i now need to use retro fit ones. Which will offend me even as i fit them, with them being visible and with visible fixings on the barge boards.............. NSS said: I'm not sure where you are with your build, but try to focus and give yourself credit for what you've already achieved, rather than what you have left to complete. And whatever else you do, don't lose sight of life, and the importance of enjoying it. Wise words, and ones i try to apply to myself, but not always succesfully

Yep. We are not alone, thats for sure.

I coped with it by not building a house! Though sleeping is one thing i dont have a problem doing. Waking up on the other hand........................... All that said, im gearing up for a whole house refurb in 9 months, probably in 2028. Starting to plan for that, and its a right bugger, because everything is interlinked. And expensive. So lots of thought required. Maybe i have it yet to come?

Easy for you to say we should pay a bit more, without considering the consequences. There is no succesful economy in the world with very high energy prices. All the advanced economies were built off cheap energy. If everyone had high energy prices, then it would level itself out, but thats not what is happening. We are just backing ourselves into an economic corner. I dont think the wider effects of a failing economy can be overstated. Accepting that there are other significant reasons for the state of our economy. Either you are blind to the wider effects, or you are OK wih impoverishing your fellow citzens. Ill let you declare which, but im pretty sure i know which it is. Its also quite clear that this government and the previous one, wants the highest possible electricity prices. Their actions prove that beyond doubt. Why, is probably a whole other thread. Probably not for this forum. PS, Electric furnaces cant make virgin steel. You seem to either not know that, overlooked it, or consider it doesnt matter in an increasingly unstable world. Again, ill let you explain which it is.

That particular one is personal monetary gain. Thats obvious with only a small amount of digging. But, sadly, thats the world we are in now. In any sensible world, they would all be in prison.

Truth is, detail is sparse, beyond it being £13bn of taxpayer money, to try and micromanage people and their homes. The result, as always with such schemes will be a disaster, grant havesters ride into the sunset with bags of cash, and the taxpayer gets to pay to sort out the mess. Thats barely got started on the ECO4 nonsense, the remedial costs of which will doubtless run into billions. But whatever the detail, it wont reduce the price of electricity, and will, almost certainly, increase it. I dont find it credible to believe Ed has extract an extra £13bn of funding from the tresuary.

Certainly seems like it. Similar threads, posted reeguarly, all of which lead to exactly the same debate every time.

Insane? No. Either making lots of money or fully paid up members of the cult.

You are clutching at straws now. Stop being ridiculous. You cannot possibly argue that prices have come because you have fitted PV. You know full well that not what i mean, or any of the debate, at any level, has been about.

You used the wrong word there. "would" be lower is "sholud" be lower. But itsnt and wont be due to market structure. In fact it made it more expensive.

My understanding from the various news articles was it WAS coming from bills, but granted its not entirely clear. I made it over £400 per household using simple maths. Even if its from other than bills, its still 13bn!!

Its a given, because theres been action to make it otherwise. Nor any serious proposed action that might bring prices down. However, theres been plenty of actions that are pushing costs up. Based on actions, not words, prices cannot come down. Prvate PV is entirely seperate from the price of electricity that one buys from an energy company. If theres a proposal for a commercial PV array, that will provide free energy and circumvent the market price peggging, please do tell? As it currently stands the consumer wont benefit from the "free" PV. The company who installed it will in the shape of mad profits.

My point is, you, and others, including government, keep saying renewables is going to bring prices down. Its not. Why cant we be honest and say, electricity prices are going to go up, probably a lot. Possibly cripplingly so. The effects of which are going to be widespread and painful.

The new 13bn grant/subsidised loan wheeze to fit heat pumps, batteries and solar. More grant harverters incoming.

And this is why prices wont come down. The status quo suits everyone involved, all printing money as fast as they can. The rest of your 3 monthly, near identical posts isnt really relavant, nothing will change unless some structural changes to the market are made. They are not likely (putting it mildly) to be made, so prices just keep going up. Prices wont come down unless some action to do so takes place. That will impact someones profit somewhere. So isnt going to happen. Indeed, Ed just ADDED £300 a year to everyones bills just 2 weeks ago. You clearly dont think so either, given your refusal to demonstrate the courage of your convictions. In the meantime, you can continue to discuss the same theoreticals over and over. Wont make a blind bit of difference. When serious changes are made to the market, that will be a great time to discuss.

Lots of words. Ignores my point entirely. When will my electricity prices go down? Odd you ignored my generous offer. I wonder why?

No it wont. Not in any meaningful timeframe. If you genuinely believe that, lets bet on it. 6 years from now, proceeds to charity of your choice. As for reform of levy and taxes, Ed just added £300 per household per year with his latest grant harvesting scheme. That will help!!!!

Good summary right there! And pretty reflective of a large chunk of society now. Net zero seems to have created a significant sized cult. No idea how it ends though..............................bankruptcy?

Thanks for all the info. As always, hard to know what to do. The cavity AND IWI gives a wall that meets current standard, which i hadnt thought was realistically achievable. Im more keen on heavily insulating the extension and do rather less in the old part which is 2 ft thick stone walls, so lots of unknowns and variables. Good news is, floor is concrete, albeit uninsulated (as far as i know, laid in 19080.) And yes the rainscreen will be ventilated. All pretty conventional.

Came very close to fitting 2 in my office and "clean room" in my workshop. Well, the propane filled ones, so no need the an F gas person. Sadly, my "electricity supply" issue means that ill need to go oil for that too. Lots of second hand boilers around at the moment for bugger all money. And easy to DIY. Which is a shame, because this would have been much simpler.

I know you dont want to, but id be talking to these guys for an "all in the box" solution. I found them very helpful when i was looking at an off grid property. At the very least it will give you an idea of whats possible and the costs. https://www.energy-solutions.co.uk/applications/off-grid/easygrid

Good point, missed that. Got those at work. Dont think id want them in my house though.