Roger440

Its unfixable. Whatever process you put in place, they just make it look the same. Of fake the paperwork. Or whatever. You can by rolls of the CE stickers anywhere in China.

For some reason you have gone a rabbit hole of saying how useless new coal plants would be. Not sure how you got there as the discussion was about the daftness of knocking one, note, one, down. In the beginnings of an energy crisis. Nobody suggested we do and you appear to be arguing with yourself?

There cannot be anyway that people will be, or be expected to apply for G98. Outside this small group on the forum, than man on the street has no idea about such things. If said panels are availble in Lidl, they will buy them and plug them in.

I dont suppose said installer has had the FENSA certification withdrawn?

Of course the regs dont allow for live pins. Thats my point. However, things go wrong, especially electronics. Yes it "should" cut of the power if it doesnt see "mains power". Should is doing a lot of heavy lifting on a device thats likely sub £200. Comparing it to an RCD isnt really relevant. The idea of the RCD is that its a back up for when something else has already gone (badly) wrong. Theres no circumstance in which live conductors are available to touch under UK regs. With a plug in panel, if it doesnt detect the mains power has gone, the pins are live. Single point of failure. Going to a situation of single point of failure is a significant step backwards. The results of which, as ive already said, are forseeable.

Yes, of course theres a cost to mothballing it. You could convert it. No idea how practical that is? My point is, we dont know whats coming. WW3 is certainly a possibility. Something bad but short of that too. Imagine our supply of gas is heavily restricted due to war, and we face a postion of blackouts due to lack of generation capacity. Would you sit there and say, no, i wont use a coal powered plant out of principle, or would you recommision it, having retained it? Theres only one answer to that that makes any sense. We dont NEED to blow it up, as we have done with previous ones. To do so is utter stupidity. As it was previously.

Seems unlikely our stocks are dwindling as we are not using it or mining it. That statement is illogical You last paragraph is irrelevant to the post.

I know all that. My point was the statement you suggested was taking the piss, was in fact entirely correct. It wasnt a suggestion it was in any way desirable.

Not really. Thats what trading standards used to do. They just dont do it any more. You could prosecute everyone doing it quite easily as the internet tells you who they are. And we should. Interestingly, the DVSA enforcement team do exactly that with non compliant automotive products. And have taken people like euro car parts to task. So it can be done. Its never been easier to identify those not complying. As i said, i think in the other thread, i bought a transformer, from Amazon that has exposed 240v terminals. I didnt know that until i got it out of the box. And i do know what im looking at. Personally, i find that completely unacceptable.

Uk sellers are indeed liable, but the reality is, there is no enfocement of regulation, and how succesful do you think you will be sueing Amazon? In reality they are not liable. That is a real problem that needs addressing. But wont be. Given that we dont, what is the point of having any regulations? Ill disagree on your last paragraph. People will die. Even using proper stuff, because, stuff goes wrong. A fundamental principle of our regs is that plugs are never live, only recessed pins can be live. This product turns that principle on its head.

Because we are led by morons. You might not want to use it, but why not leave it there for a while. No one can know the future troubles we may have.

In what way? It IS reliable (as decades of use proves) , it IS secure (because its here) and it IS plentiful. (we have heaps of it) Thats not to say it doesnt have plenty of downsides, but those three specifically are true. And plenty of countries including germany are still using it.

Theres clearly enough to make it financially viable, otherwise companies wouldnt be try to get a license. Everybodies opinion here is irrelevant. The fact that companies want to invest in that, says there are viable reserves.

I think you have misinterpreted my comment. An electrician following the rules is fine. Im talking about the people who set the rules. If you knowingly relax rules and regulations, long standing regulations based on logic and a logical progression of improved safety over time, and people suffer harm as a consequence, you will have a hard time defending that in court. Of course someone, or some organisation has to be sufficently motivated to take you to court. Dont get me wrong, i agree with you that its gone to far, we are backing ourselves into a corner generally where nothing can get done, if you follow the rules. Ill include building regs in that. But you or i declaring that doesnt actually change anything in real life. The reality is, people will die, that might not otherwise die. Lots? No. Tiny numbers. Fractions of a % of people fallling down stairs. But they will. Probably from cheap chinese crap that leaves the pins on the plug at 240v when unplugged. It as clear as day thats going to happen. And entirely forseeable. Edited to add, the average member of the public, buying a solar panel from Amazon, has no idea what regs apply, or what UKCA/CE is or means. They will just buy the cheapest they can buy. Expecting the public to manage that for themselves is, frankly, nonsense.

In a sensible world, yes, you are right. Meanwhile back in the UK, anyone signing off on this, when someone does kill themselves that person will potentially be up for manslaughter. On the basis that introducing said panels has, demonstrably made things less safe. I cant see any potential argument to the contrary. Thats the world we live in now. As a wise person once told me when i was on the railway, safety is like a ratchet. It will be interesting to see how and who authorises this. Thats before we consider that products designed to the required standard will be much more expensive than cheap ones off temu which will comply with nothing. If we had meaningful enforcement of standards, that particular risk could be managed. But we have major retailers openly selling non compliant, actually dangerous products every day. And no one cares.

He hasnt posted what happened so you may be right!

Which is brilliant. Until all the stuff that doesnt meet the relevant safety standard floods in. Which it already is, in large quantities. And no one is doing anything about. Then there will be people, as Nick suggested getting electrocuted holding a plug. For example. I posted on the other thread about my "Amazon Chinese transformer". Its the wild west out there.

Theres heaps of completely non compliant electrical stuff for sale. Most of it on Amazon. Simply doesnt comply with anything. No one cares, certainly not the authorities. Its worse still where its shipped direct to the consumer from China I bought a transformer to run a cheap chinese heater in the poly tunnel. The 240v input terminals dont even have a cover! A 10th of the price of anything compliant though. Ill make a cover. But i wouldnt put it in my house though. As per discission above, clearly one panel doesnt represent much risk, but you know people will buy 5 or 10 and plug them all in, rendering the circuit fuse or breaker worthless. Equally, how is the export limit then controlled?

Absolutely this. Not more expensive. But you DO need to be organised as its not stocked by anywhere you can actually go to in person, so needs to be mail ordered.

But the slopey bit IS as the room is the otherside of the plasterboard. If im understanding your layout/build up correctly, ie pretty conventional? Which would mean you only have 115mm to work with. Better than my 75mm though!

Or they may not as has occured with others in this exact same postion. Very interested to see how the OP's job pans out with BC.

Yes, MSP seems to be a slightly longer lived version of the barn paint. Or the barn paint is just the same stuff in a cheaper tin! Or watered down variant. Who knows? MSP availble in gloss, satin or matt. Or the one i use, soft gloss. Not sure it would fill a 2mm gap though.

Yes, but worth pointing out, that effectively its a plasterboard tent. Thermal performance likely to be woeful.

Nightmare stuff. Seals it up. Makes it rot. Ideally, strip to bare wood, allow to dry then something like Bedec MSP. Sprayable too. No primer either. Best thing about it is over long periods it sort of erodes away, bit like lime wash does, (but lasts much longer) so no prep required when repainting. Lots of work now, easy life in future. Depends on the long term view?

Id imagine theres some impervous stuff on that? Are you intending to paint over whats there? And what were you going to use?