Roger440

Gross cynicism bourne of decades of experience. I'm not against change. But it needs to be for a purpose. If it's going to make me poorer, colder or whatever, let's be honest about it. Responding to climate change as is proposed will utterly destroy our way of life, our culture and future. We need to recognise that. The fairy tale future being pedaled is exactly that, a fairy tale. All I have said is the changes being discussed, especially around electricity pricing, are not going to happen. Which, despite all the evidence, that nothings happening, for some reason appears to be an unpopular view. I judge those that seek to govern us by what they do, not what they say. I've found that's worked well for me. So I'll continue in that vein.

Convincing me is easy. When i see prices drop because they have resolved the gas price link. You assert they will but offer no evidence beyond a pointless time wasting "consultation". Forgive me if i dont believe you.

I know exactly what you said. And sure prices have dropped from utterly bonkers to bonkers. But not because of decisive government action. Unfortunately, in order to avoid the elephant in the room, you are adopting classic politicians behaviour and avoiding the issue. Ill take your lack of willingness to bet on it as acceptance that the gas price artificial market issue isnt going away. The reality is we could have sensible electricity prices, with all the advantages that would bring, but through government choice, we dont.

You appear to be sidestepping the issue both myself and Dave have highlighted, ie the link with gas. The auctions for renewables isnt relevant to that. And i say again, if government were serious, they would do something about it. They are not and they wont. So, again, lets bet on it. Or is it that really, you know im right and we will still have bonkers electricity prices come 2030.

Edited to add, national grid aka Western Powers policy is, no new connections over 80 amps. 23kva is circa 93. Ive got a copy of said policy documents, and thats what it says. And thats what they are sticking too.

This is old news. When will the change take place and prices come down. I'll wait. I'll be waiting a very long time. Because it's not going to happen. To many invested interests in the status quo. Indeed happy to bet that by 2030 will still be having the same discussion. How strong is your conviction?

They won't. It's not debatable. They won't do it. The publically stated position is as you say. However, when you read the detail of the policy, there are so many get outs and exclusions, most people won't get it. It's great PR, significantly divorced from reality. Happy to take that debate offline, as it's not really for this thread.

Dave says sensible real world things.

Heat pumps and solar panels absolutely are not cost neutral for most people if they already have a house with heating and power. Suggesting otherwise is complete nonsense. If it was, literally everyone would be doing it. The actual reality is payback periods are long and uncertain, and require considerable upfront costs Let's not try to pretend otherwise.

Steady with those outbreaks if common sense. Government could sort out the false market forcing our electricity prices up tommorow. But they won't, as making mad money for chums is way more important than worrying about mere climate change. See post above.

Again, you misundestand my point. Let's assume all the research is 100% correct. Great. Chances of the world adopting the outcomes of that research. None. Never going to happen. You want people to be significantly poorer, to reduce their quality of life, for intangible benefits at some unknown point in the future at an unknown cost. Humans don't work like that. Especially when we all know, those in power will disapply any such pain from themselves. That's the real world. You might not like it, but it's how it is.

Im not sure you read or understood what i said. Climate change is real. I have eyes, i can see. Its the idea that we are going to stop it thats a fantasy. The idea that paying out extra dosh will somehow stop or reduce the effects is bonkers. We should be spending money to prepare for the inevitable, not spending money to try and stop it. Sadly, we will go bankrupt trying to stop it. Im pretty convinced of that.

Agreed, we are are way off the original post.

It IS a domestic connection. Ive tried everything. Point blank refusal on the basis there only 2 properties on the transformer. Pay up or dont have it. Their policy document outlines their justification. I have no further argument to make. They make the rules. The heat pump and EV charger angle did not work. If i want those things i will need to generate my own power.

Long story discussed elsewhere. Its mostly for the non contestable work. Needs a new transformer. And therefore a new double pole arrangement too. Therefore i must pay to upgrade THEIR infrastructure in full. Which you wont be surprised to know, im not going to do. Its like filling up at the petrol station, then being told you need to pay for the petrol pump.

Why have you involved the local authority? No good can come from that. Either, find a Fensa installer (they self certificate, fensa themselves wil be nowhere to be seen) that is happy to fit without based on the lack of air tightness, Or do as Marshian suggested up there ^^^^ Or tell no one and just crack on. Which would be my preferred option.

Why cant you have a borehole? Likely to be the easiest and cheapest solution.

Id suggest ludicrous electricity connection quotes are not an "outlier" if this forum is anything to go by. Its a regular topic on here. That most on here can afford multiple tens of thousands for their supply, doesnt make it reasonable. I only refer to the barn as its nearer to the house. The house is 200 ft away. Lets call it a connection to the house. But it would still be £20k. Had our government adopted such a short termist view back when it decided to make electricity available across the nation, no one outside big towns and cities would have got electricity. Fortunately, they were a bit more forward thinking. Meanwhile, i will struggle on with my 60 amp supply. Not expecting sympathy, its my problem and my problem alone, but dont try to suggest government is serious or suggest i should be paying for the worlds problems (yes, i know that wasnt you) Have they fixed the nonsense of linking renewables prices to gas? Thought not. A more relevant example that affects everyone of us. Which if fixed would transform the economics of ASHP's to being a no brainer.

You say such needs to be included. They dont, and they arent. The idea that you can somehow change the outcome of climate change is fantasy. Especially by fitting a ASHP. Save your hyperbole for others. You are wasting your energy with me. If government were serious, it wouldnt be costing £20k to get the power to run an ASHP 50ft from a pole in my field to my barn. That it IS £20k is merely a measure of how little importance is attached to allowing people to have the necessary power. I might start taking it seriously if government does....... Chronic thread drift.

No. The climates going to change irrespective of my heating choices. Nothing i do, or the country does will make one iota of difference to the future of that. If you want to believe that you fitting a ASHP will, you are of course welcome. If you want to pay to change my curently perfectly functioning heating,for a more expensive type, i am of course happy to accept your generous donations. Im guessing if i wait long enough, the government will pay me to change it anyway, so ill wait.

We may be talking cross purposes? I meant your quoted pence per kWh.

A nice diesel genset. Proved invaluable last winter during the storm when we lost power for over 2 days. I need a quieter one though.

Nothing to stop you running your oil boiler at a lower temp. Could even get it to condense! Ive screwed mine well down. Big reduction in cycling. Lower radiator temps. Much lower. Im not uncomfortable. Fortunately im able to understand the concept. Sadly most people dont, and never will, so will complain their ASHP system is no good, even if its just fine. Whatever you may or may not think, perception is reality.

Id bet good money that electricity isnt getting cheaper anytime soon. Indeed, quite the opposite. Oil will of course continue to fluctuate based on global events, but unless government artifically raise it be some devious tax means, then im confident it will continue to be a cost effective method of heating.

But you have failed to consider your capital investment to get you to that point. Which is considerable, or certainly would be had you paid to have it done. If i factor in the capital cost, ill likely be dead before i break even. Of course, if you are starting with no heating system at all then that skews thing a bit more in favour of ASHP and solar.