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A polite note to all: I have said earlier in this thread about direct insults, which will be moderated and removed from public view. Buildhub T&C’s have been updated for this exact reason, and are available to (re)read at everyone’s leisure to ensure that we all function admirably on here. https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/terms/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9w2wyw9x09o "The Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) has been investigating the heating oil market in Northern Ireland and other parts of the UK. It found that the huge spike in prices at the start of the Iran conflict largely reflected rising wholesale costs and that the market is generally competitive. However, it concluded that oil consumers were not as well protected as those connected to the gas and electricity grids. The CMA has not recommended the sort of price controls applied to the gas and electricity markets. Instead it has suggested a "new, proportionate regulatory regime" which largely involves giving consumers clearer information." Anything that promotes national independence and offers some kind of stability here in the hinterlands would be a Good Thing.

22mm deck or 18mm deck? If 22mm deck, plus 6mm ply, then you’ve got 4mm before you poke out the other side. My impact drill has 4 setting for speed / torque, so is much more manageable, but if you’re not rushing you’ll be fine. I mark a grid out and go for a minimum of 120 centres, 100mm best practice imho. Never had issues so I don’t deviate from this.

You have a serious problem with people, bordering on paranoia.

Just to reinforce the fact that people are being deliberately lied to with climate propaganda... https://dailysceptic.org/2026/07/16/no-there-werent-2700-heatwave-deaths-due-to-climate-change/ Much of the public still foolishly believe what the BBC tells them. Justin Rowlatt was out last night on the BBC with the political activist organisation called the Met Office proclaiming hottest evah again, and that we are all doomed because the AMOC/gulf stream could stop at any moment. The Met Office has been shown to be a scientifically corrupt and incompetent organisation that can't even maintain an accurate set of weather stations and publishes fraudulent data as though it were real. As for the AMOC https://dailysceptic.org/2026/07/09/fears-of-gulf-stream-collapse-fade-as-hard-data-reveal-major-role-of-natural-variation/ But there are good careers to be had in lying to the public and writing fear propaganda.

thanks Nick, one on the way + new trap. fingers and toes all crossed! Smell not through cut outs but good shout - only other pipe runs under unit (accessible) and no smell there (from shower and mvhr condensate) good point - ruled that one out (it's from shower and mvhr condensate - accessible and no smell)

That's my plan. 25mm seems scarily close to the pipes though. I've got 20mm and 25mm screws, just to see what I dare put in. Seems 25mm is only an impact driver away from spoiling the whole party with the pipes underneath.

I'd worry that two layers of breather membrane, especially when one has had its performance degraded somewhat, won't behave the same as one, and lean towards replacing. Pessimistic I know but a lot cheat got than remedial work down the line

Moved out of rental, moved into new pad. Lots done but fair bit still to do. Even had a week away in our neglected campervan. Back to work next week, worktops being fitted and we will actually move into our bedroom with any luck. No fancoils yet though, so I’m running even more dark pink than normal.

Always time for playtime!

👍

UK production of oil and gas I have - can you tell me how many are in operation today? 2 - one in china that took just over 11 years to build and floating one in russia that also took 10 years to build. And there are 6 or so under construction with intended in service dates sometime before 2030. Ideally we would have gone ahead with the various reactors we had planned back in the early 00's and have several up and running by now, but we seem to be very bad at nuclear construction in the UK. I'm not convinced we will get any better in the timeline we need. We have 2 under construction (hinkley C and sizewell C) with a combined capacity of around 6.5 GW coming online in 2030 and late 2030's. But that only covers the loss from the 5 existing plants shutting down before 2030, and as they are AGR's they are going to be difficult to life extend - not impossible, they will be about 40 years old at planned shutdown and the design has been extended to 50 years at other sites. Without a time machine, nuclear isn't going to dig us out of the hole. Except when they don't keep prices down. Several years ago our gas and elec prices rocketed because a politician 1,500 miles way decided the country next door was his. Our gas and oil prices recently shot up because a politician 3,000 miles away got mad at a country 3,000miles the other way and started flinging bombs about and suddenly, ships with oil bound for us turned round in the ocean and headed to china and the far east because they outbid us. Environmental issues aside, oil and gas are very shaky foundations. We struggled in ww2 for oil. We struggled in the 70's for oil. This isn't going to get better but they don't - they offer (in effect) fixed price deals for capacity. Those prices are lower than a new build gas plant can offer (and that was before the higher gas prices). And whilst there may be a security issue with inverters made in china, in the sense they could be controlled from abroad - and there are strong arguments that the uk or at least europe should be making it's own inverters or at least the software running them - the fact the panels are made in china is irrelevant. Once you have bought them they are yours, they are dumb bits of silicon and glass that create a voltage when illuminated. That's it. Once you have bought them they will last for 25 years or so, churning out power every day. A barrel of oil, on the other hand, can be used one. Then you have to buy a new one. You realise we have wind turbines, right? They tend to do well in the winter. And if the sun doesnt shine and the wind doesn't blow - what will we do? Burn gas in CCGT plants exactly as we do now. The difference is we will be burning gas for a month or two a year rather than all year round. The future energy mix will have nuclear, wind, solar (etc) lots of battery capacity and a good chunk of CCGT plants with gas storage for the times when we need them.

It is worth pointing out that we started the transition to low carbon generation nearly 2 decades ago. Apart from some very small scale wind farms, hobby PV and a bit of hydro, we had virtually nothing. Since the we have added 55 GWp if wind and solar. Now the name plate capacity if RE cannot be compared directly with thermal generation, but it contributed close to 40% of our generation. It also contributed to our pumped storage as well. I have not looked at storage capacity in a while, but must be close to 1 GWh now. I cannot see any reason why we should not hit 90% low carbon generation by 2040, except if there is not the political will to do so. I think the political will is there, we tend to hear the naysayers more because they are the vocal minority, the majority says nothing. I am going to repeat what I said about cost. Wind and PV are the cheapest forms of, and it is coming in bold , NEW generation. It is not competing with the same contracts as legacy generation.

Thank you Redbeard. My thinking is that if there isn’t a downside to simply adding another layer them why not do that. Reduces probability of leaks perhaps. But logic doesn’t always work with building…

Depends where you're sat of course, but I’d say you’d be kosher adding probably another decade to that.

Well I am sorry for that. I don't really know anyone that thinks the UK has had competent government in the last 10-15 years. So I didn't think that one was a controversial statement. Half the country are so fed up they would probably vote for BinFace now. On the research side, there are clearly a large group of people with serious questions and concerns about the energy transition. Rejecting every concern as invalid with a wave of the hand is not very credible. If there is going to be a debate then it involves recognising when there are valid points on the other side of things. How significant they are can be discussed, but they do exist. Even some of the ''global elite'' as they get termed like Bill Gates and Tony Blair are now urging some caution. I never really care too much about the idea of winning, only about the idea of finding the right answers and the truth. I am as much of an idiot as the next man. I just wanted to inject a few things that people may not be aware of given there is a good deal of censorship that goes on. Even search engines like google have been deliberately 'fixed' to downgrade anything other than chosen political narrative. When I see a subject where free speech, and some pretty distinguished people, are being silenced and censored it sets my 'someone is hiding the truth' bells ringing. Renewables is fine, but my plea is just to recognise some of the very real issues and costs at the National scale. To go forward in a balanced way nationally rather then just seeing demons and angels. The best of our friends don't always nod along, they sometimes say are you sure your sure about that one. People here are trying to build energy efficient homes, and there is never anything wrong with that.

Call OSO and ask? I'd guess you are probably be ok as it makes more sense to me to put the VIP on the inside and PUR outer. But it's just a guess. Edit: But if the manual says no penetrations then making the plumber replace makes most sense. If you want to show flexibility then check with OSO and see what they say. If they are willing to warrant based on the screw being no longer than x then ok. No good to move forward with a void warranty.

It is A Rated, and it looks like it does have Vacuum insulated panels and PUR. So where inside the cylinder are the vacuum panels and who thinks they are punctured? The tank is not yet filled or heated so I can't do a temperature test to identify heat loss around the penetrations to determine if the VIP are punctured. Plumber has the hump with me ever since I told him to change the manifold 😕 I think its about to get worse. 😬 What now?

Change this bend from a push fit to a compression. See if that improves it. The seals on those are crap, so the water may be at the bottom of the pipe when leaving, and a gap in the seal may be at the top, and you’d get no water leaking. I’d start there. Also, push a cloth into the hole behind it, to rule out if the smell is coming through the hole and not from the pipe under there.

Use LOTS of 4.0 x 25mm screws to fix the plywood down, and if the subfloor is even SLIGHTLY suspect I put the ply down over a 3mm notched bed of neat PVA.

More on this. There are still old oil tanks available but most people appear to think they have a value so its not worth waiting. I should have bought some a year ago but I guess some people who were unaware of the value of harvesting are now thinking the same now it is obvious. So I may switch to getting a group of IBCs and linking them. Shame about the cost though. I used some years ago as water retention. the planners thought it was cheating I think, as they wanted to spend more of our client's money. It simply involved a rwp into the top of one and tank connectors at the bottoms to link to the next tank.. Or better would be as overflows near the top so the first one fills and is useful. Pumps. Google has been listening to conversations as I got an ad for an excellent looking battery pump by Bosch. It links to a normal garden hose for immediate use. Expensive though. Cheaper are available. though clunkier. I may put an additional tank at the highest point of the garden and occasionally pump up to it. Then gravity can water the garden by perforated hose. I may also fit an old fashioned "village" pump.

Where does the lower pipe (below the floor of the cabinet) go? Any joins in it? Just wondering if the smell is travelling a bit and leading you off track? Smell could migrate into the cupboard and accumulate through those cut outs while the mhvr clears the rest of the room.

Too far for the guy I used last.

wish it was a dry trap - would probably be an easy fix just adding another one in line - or a deeper one. Kitchen traps fine, shower trap fine (and on separate run as these can get vacuumed out easier if combined!) and no dead mice 😁 (or a gone off bag of carrots - had that many years ago in another house, found it eventually disappeared behind a cupboard without a proper back. Believe me that reeked!) yes very much drain smell (from STP). Rapidly concluding to try new/different trap and new elbow. Thinking maybe gas escaping at top of a joint where it won't drip???? but no obvious damage / cracks etc. So so weird............ thankfully this is in plant/utility room where we can shut door - and decent mvhr extraction! Also good we've intentionally left all pipes etc either exposed or accessible AAV internally and also on SVP externally. STP vented with carbon filter on effluent pump pod (gravity fed from STP - kept it separate for ease of replacing pump if it ever packs up - works hard pumping c. 240m, and max 2m rise albeit little head. obviously non return)

Indeed. The MOD have probably saved me on this occasion, but its forever blighted until they build "something".