VAT increase on PV and storage

[scottishjohn]

so whats the answer 

 

[ProDave]

31 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

so whats the answer 

 

I don't know, but adding an EPC requirement to claim the FIT was the most daft thing you could ever imagine. It added a layer of expense and bureaucracy to the process, denied some people who would well benefit for it from having solar PV, and in the case of a new build, meant you could not sign up for the FIT until the house was virtually complete and had a lodged EPC submitted (this is what locked me out because of our slow build) 

 

If "they" were really serious about increasing renewable energy take up, they should be removing obstacles, not creating more.

[scottishjohn]

when you see the number of people who don,t have a pension cos 20years seems a long way off

,then with no FIT and knowing it will take 15 years for payback --you are just not going to get the mass take up that they want.

even when it was 7years   that put a lot of people  off.

look how many people change houses cos of jobs  more often than that ,they not going to do it .

when i was thinking of moving i was told by estate agent to remove my solar thermal from roof ,cos it would make it harder to sell!!

and my ashp+rhi +UFH -made no difference to value of house .

so until perceptions change generally   it is only the few freaks like us on here that value these sort of things

 

 

[SteamyTea]

An MCS installation involved more than just a sparky connecting up the inverter.

There was the structural engineer sign off, the DNO paperwork, approved modules and rails.

Not saying that it should not be possible to DIY an installation, but many people shouldn't.

[newhome]

19 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

An MCS installation involved more than just a sparky connecting up the inverter.

 

 

I think it's way too expensive though. I got a quote for an ASHP to be installed here (RHI eligible so MCS installer). Quote was 14.5k, parts circa 5k. All of the RHI over 7 years taken by the installation costs. Same with the ST that is here (still not working mind ....). Got a grant from the energy saving trust of 2.3k. Installation had to be done by an approved installer. Instalation cost 2.3k. 

 

[ProDave]

The ONLY bit you NEEDED an MCS installer for was to put his MCS number on the FIT payment application form.

 

Me and @Stones have recently registered our DIY installed systems with the DNO without any particular problem.  Neither of us needed a SE for our mounting arrangements.

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, scottishjohn said:

when you see the number of people who don,t have a pension cos 20years seems a long way off

,then with no FIT and knowing it will take 15 years for payback --you are just not going to get the mass take up that they want.

even when it was 7years   that put a lot of people  off.

l

Agreed.

 

Only by sourcing the very cheapest of everything I needed could I get a DIY install down to £1500 with a predicted self usage payback of 6 years.  Much more and it would not have been worth it.

[SteamyTea]

I am only saying what should have happened if you go down the MCS route, not what some feckless, lazy and often dishonest installer actually does.

 

[newhome]

1 hour ago, SteamyTea said:

I am only saying what should have happened if you go down the MCS route, not what some feckless, lazy and often dishonest installer actually does.

 

 

I don't think they are any of those things TBH, they are simply opportunist. They charge that amount because they can. When I said to the Energy Saving Trust woman that 14.5k was way more than I would expect to be charged for what looked like a couple of days work and 5k of kit she said the quote looked to be in the right ballpark. And they are SOOO busy up here you can't get one to do an install anyway. I must have contacted about a dozen and only ever got one callback / quote. Then I was advised to look 'much further afield' which seems just great when there is an issue and no one will come back to service it. Someone told me that the non domestic installations are where the big money is so I guess many concentrate on those and can't be arsed with installing a small ASHP or whatever. 

 

[SteamyTea]

Why is your ST system still not working?

[newhome]

12 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

Why is your ST system still not working?

 

Cos no one will come and go on the roof to swap the AAV for a new one (it's suspected that this is the issue with it anyway). 

[Ferdinand]

9 hours ago, Onoff said:

Great sound bite:

 

Climate crisis: Huge VAT rise on solar panels makes installation ‘entirely uneconomic’, say experts

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change-solar-panels-vat-government-fossil-fuels-sian-berry-a8906361.html

 

The article also says:

 

Quote

The government said the decision brought the country in line with EU law which ruled in 2015 the discounted tax rate was illegal. But following the ruling, the government did not immediately enact the changes, and the European Court of Justice went on to publish a VAT action plan in 2016 with no comment on solar power.

 

An HMRC spokesperson said: “The government is proposing changes which would keep as much tax relief as possible available for Energy-Saving Materials while ensuring UK rules are in line with EU law.”

 

The new rates will come into force the same month as the UK’s deadline for leaving the EU.

 

Go figure - there's stuff on both sides there.There is also

 

Quote

Dr Robert Gross, from the Centre for Environmental Sciences at Imperial College London, told The Independent: “The UK is reluctantly complying with an EU regulation that runs contrary to EU aspirations for CO2 and renewables. On the other hand, the government did not need to remove the feed in tariff for micro-generation that did so much to support the growth of solar in the UK.

“Instead of removing the FiT it could have been set at a zero-subsidy rate that provided home and business owners with a secure long term income from solar panels at a fixed price at or below the price of conventional electricity.”

He added: “The government decided not to do this. [It is] nothing to do with EU laws.”

 

And this is interesting:

Quote

The failure to receive compensation for contributing power to the grid is illegal, but the replacement system, the smart export guarantee, is yet to be finalised and rolled out

 

I am not sure that I believe the apocalyptic narrative, because installation of solar has increased at an increasing rate in each of the last 2 years, despite then subsidies being slugged, and I think getting it on a non-subsidised basis will let the money be spent on other technologies. Encouraging uptake of ASHP may be one of them.

 

It does need export tariffs linked to the wholesale market price, however.

 

It also needs full VAT on energy prices, and someway of encouraging owner occupiers to renovate their house fabric - this year is the year where Private Rental houses will noticeably overtake Owner Occupied for Energy Effiicency. and there are 3-5 x as many poor OO houses as PRS houses.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Temp]

I'm hacked off with gov policy. Our village once did a survey which voted in favour of a community wind turbine. Then one of the big energy companies applied to build a wind farm with 120m turbines right next to the village and two conservation areas and pissed everyone off. That application was eventually rejected by the secretary of state but it got everyone's backs up. Especially the behaviour of the developer during the planning process but that's a long story. 

 

Any way I find myself with space for a 4kW ground mounted PV array and the money and skills to do a DIY install, I even have a duct in the ground ready...but I now have a local community that would probably never speak to me.

 

Planning rules even encourage me to make any visual impact worse. I could put them smack in the middle of the site (nearer a footpath) without planning permission but the best place would be next to the site boundary where planning permission would be required.

 

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by Temp

[ProDave]

4 hours ago, Temp said:

I'm hacked off with gov policy. Our village once did a survey which voted in favour of a community wind turbine. Then one of the big energy companies applied to build a wind farm with 120m turbines right next to the village and two conservation areas and pissed everyone off. That application was eventually rejected by the secretary of state but it got everyone's backs up. Especially the behaviour of the developer during the planning process but that's a long story. 

 

Any way I find myself with space for a 4kW ground mounted PV array and the money and skills to do a DIY install, I even have a duct in the ground ready...but I now have a local community that would probably never speak to me.

 

Planning rules even encourage me to make any visual impact worse. I could put them smack in the middle of the site (nearer a footpath) without planning permission but the best place would be next to the site boundary where planning permission would be required.

 

 

So put your planning app in. If there are any objections POINT OUT very clearly that if this is refused you WILL put them in the middle of the site where it is PD.

[Alex C]

On 09/05/2019 at 13:54, PeterW said:

 

Quite a simple way actually...

 

Good friend of mine is a sports physio - £50/30 mins, probably does 16 hours a week at most.

 

Turns over around £75k, expenses are the office/consulting room, phone and PC and is self employed and the whole lot goes through the books as taxable etc. No need to go VAT registered as there is very little by way of VAT recovery, and charging VAT would be counter intuitive.

 

Medical proffesionals don't have to be vat registered regardless of turnover as they don't charge vat on services. But I agree a turnover of 75 k could easily be more than a 45k income so not gig. Different for builders such as electricians that would normally be buying materials although some do seem to ask clients to buy materials to stay under vat threshold.