Large Downstairs WC or Separate Plant Room??

[Barney12]

Hi All

 

I'd really appreciate the collective views of the forum on this one......

 

This is the current design of our ground floor WC, its fairly large to incorporate storage (left of door) and plant (right of door):

 

 

BUT....I'm starting to think that it might be better to create a separate small plant room. I can steal a small amount of space from the adjacent utility and create a space something like the below. (Ignore the window position which needs centralising). 

 

 

Which would work better? I like the idea of the plant being in a separate room. Realistically it will house:

 

1. MVHR Unit.

2. Thermal Store /Cylinder (TBC exactly what)

3. Electric Consumer Unit.

 

I cant make the WC much smaller as the boss doesn't want to loose the coat/shoe storage. 

 

TIA.

 

 

[jack]

Realistically the MVHR should go on the outside wall, meaning you'll have to squeeze past the TS/UVC to get to it.  I suppose you won't need to get past it very often, but what happens in the worst case scenario of the MVHR failing and you having to get it out past the TS/UVC?

 

I don't know what the realistic minimum footprint is for installing a TS/UVC.  Perhaps start with that and see how much room there really is?  

 

If it does work, and TS/UVC + MVHR is all that's in there, then you can always use the space just inside the door for storage and clothes drying (assuming there's ventilation in the plant room).

[AliG]

For some reason my wife spent a lot of time on our WC as she wanted it to be spacious.

 

Our current one is roughly 1.8x 1.4m which feels quite nice but we have gone up to 1.9 x 1.6m in the new place.

 

I have seen houses with quite large rooms as WCs and the fittings looked embarrassingly lost in the rooms.

 

It's not clear, but I assume in your original 3m wide WC, the side areas are actually boxed in cupboards.

 

I far prefer the separate plant room. I have worried about Jack's issues, that everything should be able to get out if it needs replaced, but I would have thought you have plenty of room there unless the TS is enormous.They are normally around 700-800mm wide.

 

I don't like the WC design though. Perhaps it's just me, but it's a room visitors see when coming into your house. You are leaving it quite cramped as it seems to be maybe less than 1m wide after allowing for the storage. Also I would always try to have room separate as there will be times when you are frustrate you can't get into the cupboard due to someone being in the WC. Imagine having visitors and them hanging around waiting for you to come out of the WC to get their coats for instance.

 

I think I would move the cupboard to incorporate it into the plant room and not the WC. I would want a standalone WC 1.2m wide and then make the plant room wider. The exact space for the storage would depend on the plant room equipment layout.

 

The other alternative is to move the storage space into the utility room. I can't see how big it is, but rather than pay for lots of kitchen units in the utility room, you could move that cupboard to the other side of the wall and save on kitchen units.  Make the WC 1.2m wide and add the width to the utility room.

 

 

 

 

[Bitpipe]

Our WC is bang on 900mm wide and just meets the regs - had to hunt for an appropriately narrow sink - and is about 2.5 (ish) m long. Now that its got a door, lighting and sanitary ware installed it looks fine.

 

We have a plant room in the basement (directly under the utility) and its been extremely useful - gas boiler, MVHR and UVC are there plus all the electrical distribution - it's 3.6m x 1.2m so plenty of space for everything and plenty of working room also.

 

I'd perhaps question having so much storage in a WC, is there somewhere else you could locate it? Not sure I'd want to store coats & shoes in a WC, aside from potential dampness, could lead to some awkward situations

 

 

[Ferdinand]

You could get more wall space in the plant room by accessing it via door from the WC.

 

Access and moving things in / out may determine that.

 

Ferdinand

[Nickfromwales]

Can that window be relocated to the far left?

If so, I'd have a small corridor cloakroom ( where do you stand with BR's over size btw ? Wheelchair access ? ) and have the rest of the footprint dedicated to storage and plant. 

[Nickfromwales]

Btw, if my guests judge me by the size of my cloakroom, I need new guests . 

[Barney12]

Some really good advice there guys. Especially the point about accessing coats whilst people are having a dump etc  

Im going to look at the design again. Be right back after I've completed the required summit meeting with SWMBO. 

[ProDave]

The trouble with a plant room, is usually it's a mess of odd sized "things" connected by lots of pipes and cables, which even if done neatly, is still some industrial eyesore to most people. So no I would not have that in a WC.

 

But in our case we are having a combined utility room and WC. I thought BR might have something to say, but they are happy with it. all they want is an accessible toilet and space to fit a shower in the future. They don't care if it also has a washing machine and a tumble dryer in the same room, and they don't care if instead of a wash hand basin I have a kitchen type sink in a kitchen base unit instead.
 

[PeterW]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

[...] all they want is an accessible toilet and space to fit a shower in the future [...]

 

 

Is that in the Scottish Regs as I thought it had come out of Part M in England about the shower provision downstairs ...??

[Ferdinand]

4 hours ago, ProDave said:

The trouble with a plant room, is usually it's a mess of odd sized "things" connected by lots of pipes and cables, which even if done neatly, is still some industrial eyesore to most people. So no I would not have that in a WC.

 

But in our case we are having a combined utility room and WC. I thought BR might have something to say, but they are happy with it. all they want is an accessible toilet and space to fit a shower in the future. They don't care if it also has a washing machine and a tumble dryer in the same room, and they don't care if instead of a wash hand basin I have a kitchen type sink in a kitchen base unit instead.
 

 

What size does the potential shower have to be?

 

If wheelchair accessible I make it something like 2.5m square for teh room.

 

(From Memory).

 

Ferdinand

[ProDave]

It's a Scottish building reg. I would have to look up the minimum size of shower and the "activity space" it needs next to it.  In our case it will be the space we are going to use for the the pull down clothes dryer that will be allocated for a future shower. You can also meet that requirement by saying you will knock through into an adjacent cupboard should you need to fit a shower.

 

Both the downstairs toilet and future shower provision need to be "accessible" so need all the right amount of activity space.

 

One issue with that is the activity space in front of the toilet. You are not allowed to have a door opening across that activity space. But out combined wc 7 utility will also have the door through to the garage. I couldn't find a way to avoid the garage door crossing the activity space unless it opened into the garage. but discussing with my BC officer he agreed that is not an issue as nobody in a wheelchair would be negotiating the step up from the garage so that door did not matter. As long as the dor from the main house met the accessibility requirements they are happy.
 

[Barney12]

4 hours ago, PeterW said:

 

Is that in the Scottish Regs as I thought it had come out of Part M in England about the shower provision downstairs ...??

 

I've just checked Part M. Shower provision is no longer required for Cat.1:

 

Requirement M4 ‘Sanitary conveniences in dwellings’ has been replaced by new requirements:

o

M4(1)

Category 1:

Visitable dwellings

o

M4(2)

Category 2:

Accessible and adaptable dwellings

o

M4(3)

Category 3:

Wheelchair user dwelling

[Nickfromwales]

11 hours ago, ProDave said:

The trouble with a plant room, is usually it's a mess of odd sized "things" connected by lots of pipes and cables, which even if done neatly, is still some industrial eyesore to most people. So no I would not have that in a WC.

 

But in our case we are having a combined utility room and WC. I thought BR might have something to say, but they are happy with it. all they want is an accessible toilet and space to fit a shower in the future. They don't care if it also has a washing machine and a tumble dryer in the same room, and they don't care if instead of a wash hand basin I have a kitchen type sink in a kitchen base unit instead.
 

Another good, but rare, example of you being 'allowed' to make your own home the way you want it, for you to live in accordingly.  

Sounds a good result dave.  

 

[Barney12]

OK, so further to the input above and talking to SWMBO I've had a rethink. It seems the idea of a downstairs shower is a big vote winner so how about this?

I really don't understand this "the door must open outwards" rule in Part M. In our layout I actually think its more restrictive! 

I'm really trying to avoid putting a window in the plant room as that will be a planning change, but is it essential? 

 

[Ferdinand]

I would put the WHB on the LH wall, and fill the whole dogleg with a decent sized shower. It will be used for cleaning muddy / work clothes and potentially dogs so it wants space.

 

You could also have one of those LCD windows which clear at the touch of a switch for the shoe/handbag exhibition unit so the proud owner can go "ta-da" to show up competitors :-).

 

I think inward swinging doors in small rooms can inhibit wheelchair manoeuvrability.

 

Possibly you can't consider the swept area to be part of your internal room area. I have seen this highlighted as designers adding unusable space to rooms to meet space standards. It was discussed as a loophole when they were defining the London Space Standards.

 

Ferdinand

Edited September 2, 2016 by Ferdinand

[Barney12]

9 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

I would put the WHB on the LH wall, and fill the whole dogleg with a decent sized shower. It will be used for cleaning muddy / work clothes and potentially dogs so it wants space.

 

That was my initial thought but I was concerned about impeding access. I'll have to read that bit of part M again.

The "get straight in the shower downstairs" after gardening/walking is the main driver. The dog issue is catered for as they have their own thermostatically controlled outside doggy shower!!  

[Barney12]

9 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

 

You could also have one of those LCD windows which clear at the touch of a switch for the shoe/handbag exhibition unit so the proud owner can go "ta-da" to show up competitors :-).

 

Do not encourage her!!  

[Ferdinand]

I was partly thinking of future owners, for some of whom it would be attractive as a differentiator.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Ferdinand

[Nickfromwales]

11 hours ago, Barney12 said:

OK, so further to the input above and talking to SWMBO I've had a rethink. It seems the idea of a downstairs shower is a big vote winner so how about this?

I really don't understand this "the door must open outwards" rule in Part M. In our layout I actually think its more restrictive! 

I'm really trying to avoid putting a window in the plant room as that will be a planning change, but is it essential? 

 

 

Looks good. +1 on shifting the sink and going for a nice big shower. 

Either way you go, I'd avoid a quadrant cubicle like the plague as unless your spending out on a very good make they're usually falling apart after a few years and the seal where the two doors meet is right opposite the spray so a nightmare if you accidentally bump into the doors and open them slightly ( more so when you haven't realised ). 

Go for a square or rectangle and either an infold ( bifold ) or a slider. Pivot doors and quadrants are the ones to stay away from in my experience. 

 

[PeterW]

+1 to the rectangular shower - just make it the size of the alcove and it's easier !

 

I would also make the plant room door open outwards as it will match the rest and also give you somewhere easily accessible to dump the Hoover etc ..!

[Ferdinand]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

 

Looks good. +1 on shifting the sink and going for a nice big shower. 

Either way you go, I'd avoid a quadrant cubicle like the plague as unless your spending out on a very good make they're usually falling apart after a few years and the seal where the two doors meet is right opposite the spray so a nightmare if you accidentally bump into the doors and open them slightly ( more so when you haven't realised ). 

Go for a square or rectangle and either an infold ( bifold ) or a slider. Pivot doors and quadrants are the ones to stay away from in my experience. 

 

Or a screen and no door.

 

Least maintenance of all.

 

There could also be a case for a corner loo, and whb next to it on the far wall, which would leave room on the LHS for a row of coat hooks.

 

Ferdinand

Edited September 3, 2016 by Ferdinand

[jack]

56 minutes ago, PeterW said:

+1 to the rectangular shower - just make it the size of the alcove and it's easier !

 

I would also make the plant room door open outwards as it will match the rest and also give you somewhere easily accessible to dump the Hoover etc ..!

 

Yes to both of those.

 

Also, consider sizing the room to match a standard shower tray (with extra for boarding, tiles etc).

 

I was told that the outward opening regulation is at least partly to ensure the door can be opened easily if someone falls off a wheelchair while the door is closed.

[ProDave]

The outward opening is silly. We don't have that here. We need to provide a set amount of "activity space" in front of a WC and in front of a bath or shower, and the door swing is not allowed to encroach on that activity space. Yours would easily achieve that with an inward opening door.  If this were me forced to comply with that silly rule, the door stop would be fixed with just a few panel pins, and the day after the completion certificate was issued I would reverse the door swing.

 

I think the cupboard you have created between the two rooms is the issue. I would make is smaller to give room in the shower room for the basin.

 

[Barney12]

Right more good advise guys. So, Rev.3. 

 

 

The question is does the above meet (with the incredibly vague!) Part M regs as shown here.

 

 

I've currently drawn internal walls at 150mm thickness so I guess there is a little wriggle room there.

 

@ProDave I had already consider your "lightly fixed" door idea until the day after completion cert issued . Cupboard size cant really get much smaller to be useful as a cloak store.