canalsiderenovation Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Just another area I'm researching... I'm pretty ignorant to this, but when purchased the bungalow we had a drainage inspection which is an old brick one and "the septic tank is a single chamber with an approximate working capacity of 5m3. This size of septic tank is sufficient for the dwelling, but we are concerned about the depth of the septic tank. This septic tank is most unusual in that it has a working depth of only 0.5m. We are concerned that the shallow depth will restrict settlement of the suspended solids prior to discharge to the drainage field". Issues were also raised with blockages in the draining field and the foul drain which subsided/partially blocked. Prior to us purchasing last Easter the septic tank was emptied (vendor had never had it emptied to the sellers knowledge though it was a probate sale - if that's right it hadn't been emptied in 40 odd years)! Given our plans to extend up and our pending the ecologists/pp in progress we know we will need to sort this out as the septic tank will not be sufficient... What I'm confused about is the pros/cons of septic tank/sewage treatment plant. Can anyone share their opinion of each ...? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Without a doubt I would fit a small treatment plant, and without a doubt I would choose one that works on the air blower principle like Graff, Vortex, Biopure or Conder (I chose the Conder) You will get a much cleaner effluent, you can manage with a 20% smaller drainage field, and there is very much less chance of the drainage field blocking. Septic tanks are likely to come under more stringent rules and a lot of people are going to be forced to upgrade very soon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted April 11, 2019 Author Share Posted April 11, 2019 I'd read something about non electric sewage treatment plants, I think it was Clearfox but that they were v.expensibe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 I agree with Dave Little bit more exspensive But cleaner and go can go years without being emtiedb We had to replace the vendors tank as part of the build We I staled a treatment plant in ours Neighbour chose to have a septic tank They are regretting there decision now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted April 11, 2019 Author Share Posted April 11, 2019 Do you both have electric sewage treatment plants? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, canalsiderenovation said: Do you both have electric sewage treatment plants? Mine has a small box in the garage that blows air into the water So that the bacteria can thrive Costs penny’s to run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 13 minutes ago, canalsiderenovation said: Do you both have electric sewage treatment plants? Yes mine is the Conder that uses an air blower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 47 minutes ago, nod said: and go can go years without being emptied Really? I thought they needed emptying more often? I am needing to do something imminently about our cess pit / septic tank / Guy N Smith's Sucking Pit Loos are backing up more often and rodding only works for so long aside from being the most unpleasant job! First I have to find the bloody thing. SWMBO reckons she found another man hole near the "pit" that I never knew about. I'd have it emptied a bit for a start but don't want to get caught by some pikey crowd doing it. I don't know how much firms charge, per X litres removed? Would the local council have a list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 We pay about £150 each time we have a 2500L septic tank pumped out every 24 months. It's just 2 years now so will be getting the treatment plant pumped out for the first time soon, and then take guidance from the tanker driver if it was over due or could go longer next time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 11 minutes ago, ProDave said: We pay about £150 each time we have a 2500L septic tank pumped out every 24 months. It's just 2 years now so will be getting the treatment plant pumped out for the first time soon, and then take guidance from the tanker driver if it was over due or could go longer next time. Quite happy to pay that sort of figure. We've been here 18+ years and it's never been done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nod Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, Onoff said: Quite happy to pay that sort of figure. We've been here 18+ years and it's never been done. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, nod said: ? Just an area of the garden we don't venture into and never have tbh. You can lose a lot of sh!t in half an acre! Just looked at the Council website, not sure if that figure is the emergency emptying price? The "view our charges" tab takes me to some weird, near blank page??? https://www.sevenoaks.gov.uk/info/20000/rubbish_and_recycling/166/cesspool_and_septic_tank_emptying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted April 12, 2019 Author Share Posted April 12, 2019 I understand the septic tank cost £120 to be emptied for us (well the seller) and that was potentially not being emptied since the 70's, but the bungalow is on a half acre plot as well. We haven't had it emptied since then -last Easter although I know current advice say we should have it emptied annually. I've read good things about the Vortex and low electric use. In terms of discharging to a watercourse, wonder if Canal and River Trust would allow that? I'm guessing not as they are the most difficult, hard to communicate with people we have encountered so far and would probably want to charge as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Don't be looking to the council for emptying services. A private contractor or your water company are where I look. I use a company up here called Sure clean, but I know Scottish Water offer the pumpout service. I think @joe90 has a Vortex so he will answer any details about it if that is the one you choose. I am near certain you won't be able to discharge into the canal. Unlike rivers most canals have no flow so nothing to dilute what you put in there. They are dirty enough as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted April 12, 2019 Author Share Posted April 12, 2019 39 minutes ago, ProDave said: Don't be looking to the council for emptying services. A private contractor or your water company are where I look. I use a company up here called Sure clean, but I know Scottish Water offer the pumpout service. I think @joe90 has a Vortex so he will answer any details about it if that is the one you choose. I am near certain you won't be able to discharge into the canal. Unlike rivers most canals have no flow so nothing to dilute what you put in there. They are dirty enough as it is. We actually do have a flow as we have a bywash adjacent to the garden so it always has some flow to it. The likely issues are communication with CRT who are not the easiest people to communicate with, you need an application for anything with a large fee before they will even consider giving any view and when they were consulted on our PP application they had been less than favourable on their view of materials and design, even though the local councillor who visited supports it, all local neighbours support it and we had lots of favourable comments. Whether the local council supports their views yet who knows - we will wait til May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 I forgot, you are on the Llangollen canal aren't you, one of the few that does have a small flow. (very noticable when going the "wrong way" over the pontcysyllte aqueduct) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Discharge to a canal won't be allowed, I'm certain. There is an ongoing drive to clean up the water in the canal network, and the CRT will almost certainly strongly oppose any request to allow you to discharge, even if the bywash does flow all year around Discharge to a watercourse may be allowed if it has flowing water all year around, but the acceptability of this seems to vary a bit from region to region. I found the EA were fine about us discharging to the stream alongside our plot, but @ProDave had some difficulty getting SEPA to accept this, so it seems clear that SEPA and the EA work to a different set of rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 24 minutes ago, canalsiderenovation said: The likely issues are communication with CRT who are not the easiest people to communicate with, you need an application for anything with a large fee before they will even consider giving any view and when they were consulted on our PP application they had been less than favourable on their view of materials and design This is my experience too - we looked at a plot on the edge of a canal and our engineer advised to redo the sheet piling along a 12m section of bank to ensure stability. Contractor (approved to do CRT work) price was around £4k. Spoke to CRT about wanting to do it, came back with a quote of £19k for the same work !!! That included £3k for surveyors fees, £2.5k for approvals, a bunch of other costs and £9k for the piling to exactly the same spec that the contractor had specified... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted April 13, 2019 Author Share Posted April 13, 2019 22 hours ago, PeterW said: This is my experience too - we looked at a plot on the edge of a canal and our engineer advised to redo the sheet piling along a 12m section of bank to ensure stability. Contractor (approved to do CRT work) price was around £4k. Spoke to CRT about wanting to do it, came back with a quote of £19k for the same work !!! That included £3k for surveyors fees, £2.5k for approvals, a bunch of other costs and £9k for the piling to exactly the same spec that the contractor had specified... Crikey! Yes, I found actually if you can avoid needing to ask or consult CRT on anything it's easier. I'm also guessing discharge to a watercourse (canal) won't allowed. The Vortex seems good and low electric use too. Obviously we will need to wait for building reg plans and all perculation tests etc for drainage/soakaways and we are not on mains drainage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canalsiderenovation Posted April 13, 2019 Author Share Posted April 13, 2019 22 hours ago, ProDave said: I forgot, you are on the Llangollen canal aren't you, one of the few that does have a small flow. (very noticable when going the "wrong way" over the pontcysyllte aqueduct) Yes, just outside Whitchurch, Shropshire. There is a definite flow. Watching the boats trying to get under the bridge had provided much entertainment as the flow from the bywash pushes them the opposite way and then the have to reverse and straighten up. I'm sure it's created lots of arguments on family holidays and near divorces . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 1 minute ago, canalsiderenovation said: The Vortex seems good and low electric use too. Obviously we will need to wait for building reg plans and all perculation tests etc for drainage/soakaways and we are not on mains drainage... An alternative to a leach field (a treatment plant can't discharge to a soakaway usually) may be to look at installing a drainage mound. This is essentially a mound of permeable stuff like sand, with the discharge being pumped into it. It takes up less space than a leach field and will work where the permeability of the sub-soil is too poor for a leach field to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 @canalsiderenovation , mind me hijacking your thread with my own "cess pool" questions? Got a big issue here with a never emptied one. Needs emptying like now. Trying to find it yesterday evening and the only way I can describe the ground area where it is is a "lasagne of sh!t". Ostensibly unkempt garden I managed (by prodding with a spade) to find what I think is a rectangular manhole cover under about 3" of this stuff. Disturb it and it really chucks up! Trouble is I don't know where the pit is exactly. That man hole might have been before or even on top and I'm a bit worried about the top collapsing in with me on it. It was dug about 1950 I think and the elderly previous owner said something about the "roof" being an arched brick structure. The whole area is covered in thorn and slow bushes so that needs clearing just to access the area and find the edges / access hatch. New neighbours down the road have just bought and renovated one of the last remaining older properties and a few months ago I saw a treatment plant being craned into a hole. I might pop down and introduce myself and ask what they went for. (It was green and beehive shaped). Similar position from the road to where I think I'd put one so guessing it'd satisfy whatever requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Green and beehive shaped is almost certainly the BioPure. Same as @JSHarris has. Sounds seriously dangerous prodding about in your "slurry pit" I wonder how deep it is if you did fall in? Could be fatal. take great care. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 1 hour ago, JSHarris said: An alternative to a leach field (a treatment plant can't discharge to a soakaway usually) may be to look at installing a drainage mound. This is essentially a mound of permeable stuff like sand, with the discharge being pumped into it. It takes up less space than a leach field and will work where the permeability of the sub-soil is too poor for a leach field to work. If you decide to look at the filter mound I might be of help. This was our original proposal so I did the research and designed one. The sand for it, being graded, would have cost about £1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone West Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 54 minutes ago, Onoff said: That man hole might have been before or even on top and I'm a bit worried about the top collapsing in with me on it. I would be very careful and have someone else around in case the worst happens. This is what we fitted, it's upside down by the way . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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