Passive Haus on a budget?

[Ferdinand]

5 hours ago, Dreadnaught said:

For information, my quote for Passive House certification was £2,129 + VAT. It seems to depend on the architect: I was told my quote was a bit lower because the architect was both a certified PH-designer and known to the certifier.

 

Yes, but your potential pool of components shrinks, too ... so the raw costs o& the build can increase or flexibility shrink. So they tend to be more expensive etc.

 

(Be interested to hear if that is no longer the case)

Edited March 27, 2019 by Ferdinand

[Bitpipe]

10 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

was hardly a normal summer  last year 

 

Not normal historically but expected to be more typical. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/nov/02/uk-heatwaves-lasting-twice-as-long-as-50-years-ago-met-office

 

A house built today needs to deal with the future, not the past.

[scottishjohn]

so if you want these great big folding window walls then you gotta allow for air con  in build  then .

having been in australia most just air con one or two rooms,definately the bedroom  and mostly the lounge  as well  with a wall mounted blower unit --very quiet and simple to fit  

but normal people don,t go for full house system .

they just  have what looks like a car port in the  yard" as they call it ,with the barbie under it in the "  and live outside 

maybe that,s what you in the SE are going to be doing  in the future ,

what we spend on heating they spend on air con .LOL

my daughter is in sydney  and after 5years out there she really complains when  in their winter it drops to 20c - and always wants thermals brought out .

lottery win and i,m out there --average 28-35 c --great  

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by scottishjohn

[Bitpipe]

6 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

so if you want these great big folding window walls then you gotta allow for air con  in build  then .

having been in australia most just air con one or two rooms,definately the bedroom  and mostly the lounge  as well  with a wall mounted blower unit --very quiet and simple to fit  

but normal people don,t go for full house system .

they just  have what looks like a car port in the  yard" as they call it ,with the barbie under it in the "  and live outside 

maybe that,s what you in the SE are going to be doing  in the future ,

what we spend on heating they spend on air con .LOL

my daughter is in sydney  and after 5years out there she really complains when  in their winter it drops to 20c - and always wants thermals brought out .

lottery win and i,m out there --average 28-35 c --great  

 

Best approach is to avoid overheating in the first place by leveraging existing shading and designing in your own, whether bris soleil, blinds, overhangs etc.

 

A split air con would make sense, problem with MVHR is that the air flow is too low to appreciably cool a room so you need something more meaty. Assuming that it's used when it's sunny, PV would take care of the energy used.

 

Quite a few here cool their slab by running the UFH cool via the ASHP and keep it just above the dew point so water doesn't condense out on it. I looked into creating a heat dump when excavating the basement but it all got too complicated. Basement itself is lovely in summer - never goes above 22 and has no heating or cooling in it what so ever.

 

I travel to Arizona regularly and it's 40+ there during the summer, mid 20s in winter. Lots of homes and restaurants have chilled mist sprayers that don't make you wet but do take the heat out of the immediate area. 

 

[Ferdinand]

9 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

 

Best approach is to avoid overheating in the first place by leveraging existing shading and designing in your own, whether bris soleil, blinds, overhangs etc.

 

A split air con would make sense, problem with MVHR is that the air flow is too low to appreciably cool a room so you need something more meaty. Assuming that it's used when it's sunny, PV would take care of the energy used.

 

Quite a few here cool their slab by running the UFH cool via the ASHP and keep it just above the dew point so water doesn't condense out on it. I looked into creating a heat dump when excavating the basement but it all got too complicated. Basement itself is lovely in summer - never goes above 22 and has no heating or cooling in it what so ever.

 

I travel to Arizona regularly and it's 40+ there during the summer, mid 20s in winter. Lots of homes and restaurants have chilled mist sprayers that don't make you wet but do take the heat out of the immediate area. 

 

 

Has anyone used an impluvium (evaporating pool) like the Romans?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impluvium

 

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Ferdinand

[ToughButterCup]

40 minutes ago, Bitpipe said:

Best approach is to avoid overheating in the first place by leveraging existing shading and designing in your own, whether bris soleil, blinds, overhangs etc.

[...]

 

Thats what our Winter Garden is about: shading a huge Gaulhofer 4 meter window. Kevin of TV fame calls arrangements like this  a Breeze Corridor. 

My tame retired roofer calls it a  patio wi' a screen.

[Bitpipe]

58 minutes ago, Ferdinand said:

 

Has anyone used an impluvium (evaporating pool) like the Romans?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impluvium

 

I was once forced into a "comfort cooled" open plan office, so I had a mini one of those for a huge Boston Fern.

 

Would have done but couldn't get the aquaduct or vomitorium past the planners...

[Ferdinand]

18 hours ago, Bitpipe said:

 

Would have done but couldn't get the aquaduct or vomitorium past the planners...

 

Delighted to discover that a Vomitorium is actually a thing ! Never learnt that at school.

 

The nearest now would be the exit tunnels from a football ground.

 

 

Ferdinand

 

Bonus trivia 

The Latin word vomitorium, plural vomitoria, derives from the verb vomō, vomere, "to spew forth". In ancient Roman architecture, vomitoria were designed to provide rapid egress for large crowds at amphitheatres and stadia, as they do in modern sports stadia and large theatres.

 

?

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Ferdinand

[jack]

4 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

Delighted to discover that a Vomitorium is actually a thing ! Never learnt that at school.

 

I can't tell you how disappointed I am to learn this @Ferdinand. You'd have been my "phone a friend" on a question like this.

[K78]

This might be useful. 

 

https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/41000-house-scoops-cut-price-self-build-comp/8653990.article

[AliMcLeod]

21 minutes ago, K78 said:

This might be useful. 

 

https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/news/41000-house-scoops-cut-price-self-build-comp/8653990.article

 

"The 100m² scheme is estimated to cost just £41,000."

 

Call me a cynic, but what are the chances that 

 

a) It will be built

b) It will be built for less than £50K

c) The the website will revisit the build at a future date and report what it cost to build

d) if b) does not happen but c) does, that Brexit will be blamed

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by AliMcLeod

[K78]

13 minutes ago, AliMcLeod said:

 

"The 100m² scheme is estimated to cost just £41,000."

 

Call me a cynic, but what are the chances that 

 

a) It will be built

b) It will be built for less than £50K

c) The the website will revisit the build at a future date and report what it cost to build

d) if b) does not happen but c) does, that Brexit will be blamed

 

 

My budget is really tight. I will post a blog once it is finished. 

 

I contacted the architect when I was interested in the design but I’m using ICF. I think it is feasible to build within that budget if you do most of the work yourself. Assisted by farmers rather than building contractors.

 

Farmers saved me a fortune on muckaway and groundwork’s. They even built my retaining wall. Builders quoted £30-£45k. It cost £5500.

 

Brexit isn’t happening by design. How else could such a ridiculous, inept idiot be pm? She is a better dancer FFS. 

 

[TerryE]

On 27/03/2019 at 07:46, bobberjob said:

We are converting a small agricultural steel frame barn to a house. The idea always was to use modern methods of construction to build a Passiv Haus.

 

One of the sometimes wonderful and sometimes annoying characteristics of this forum is that the posting thread can quickly go off topic -- gold dust interleaved with interesting ramblings.  Anything to do with PH and PH certification is off topic.   Concentrate on establishing what level of energy efficiency you want and at what price.

• Conversion vs new build.  Establish whether your VAT rating is going to be 0 or 20% -- I suspect that you will probably end up paying VAT at 20% on a conversion.
• Planning.  Your need to establish whether the conversion falls under permitted development rights in which case you need a certificate of lawful development to protect yourself, or whether you will need to go through a full planning application and approval.
• BReg compliance.  You will need to demonstrate that your conversion complies with current BRegs and get the work properly signed off by an approved Build Control Inspector.  This may not be trivial for a non-standard conversions.  You will almost certainly need a structural engineer to sign-off on the construction.
• Architect and Proj Mgr overheads -- do you need then or are you going to do the work yourself / use an Architect Technician.  Lots of discussions on the forum about the pros and cons here.
• Thermal performance: if you get the U-value of the walls / ceiling / floor truly under 0.15 and the Air-tightness under 1, with MHVR then you will need minimal heating.
• Fenestration.  You won't achieve an <1 ACH with trickle vents and unsealed windows, but wherever possible stick to good quality stock-size triple-glazed double-sealed windows.  There are some Polish suppliers that do very cost-effective units.

Reading and researching here and around will pay dividends.

 

[TerryE]

On 27/03/2019 at 07:46, bobberjob said:

We are converting a small agricultural steel frame barn to a house. The idea always was to use modern methods of construction to build a Passiv Haus.

 

One of the sometimes wonderful and sometimes annoying characteristics of this forum is that the posting thread can quickly go off topic -- gold dust interleaved with interesting ramblings.  Anything to do with PH and PH certification is off topic.   Concentrate on establishing what level of energy efficiency you want and at what price.

• Conversion vs new build.  Establish whether your VAT rating is going to be 0 or 20% -- I suspect that you will probably end up paying VAT at 20% on a conversion.
• Planning.  Your need to establish whether the conversion falls under permitted development rights in which case you need a certificate of lawful development to protect yourself, or whether you will need to go through a full planning application and approval.
• BReg compliance.  You will need to demonstrate that your conversion complies with current BRegs and get the work properly signed off by an approved Build Control Inspector.  This may not be trivial for a non-standard conversions.  You will almost certainly need a structural engineer to sign-off on the construction.
• Architect and Proj Mgr overheads -- do you need then or are you going to do the work yourself / use an Architect Technician.  Lots of discussions on the forum about the pros and cons here.
• Thermal performance: if you get the U-value of the walls / ceiling / floor truly under 0.15 and the Air-tightness under 1, with MHVR then you will need minimal heating.
• Fenestration.  You won't achieve an <1 ACH with trickle vents and unsealed windows, but wherever possible stick to good quality stock-size triple-glazed double-sealed windows.  There are some Polish suppliers that do very cost-effective units.

Reading and researching here and around will pay dividends.

 

[kxi]

@TerryE

Isn't the conversion of a barn to dwelling likely to be at least in part 5%, as per VAT notice 708? (I hope it is)

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-notice-708-buildings-and-construction/vat-notice-708-buildings-and-construction

Summarised: https://www.charltonbaker.co.uk/news-blog/detail/reduced-rate-of-vat-and-barn-conversions

 

Also, if the barn conversion is under Class Q Permitted development (which I assume it is unless you go for full planning) then one would need to make a 'prior approval' application to the council. Whether one then needs to also get a certificate of lawful development in addition is debatable. Our council never suggested this was necessary and our planning consultant didn't think it necessary either, however a planning lawyer did later suggest there was in theory a case for one, though AFAIK not one that has ever actually applied to any class Q conversion in reality (but don't take my word for it). I would be surprised if anyone getting Class Q barn conversions also got an LDC, but it would be interesting to hear from others using Class Q.

[TerryE]

@kxi, you might well be right re VAT elligabilty and permissions, so long as you've checked and not assumed.?