Disabled access

[newhome]

1 minute ago, nod said:

We have bifolds and French doors around the back which have great access 

Park your car a couple of mtrs away 

BUT  BC wanted front or side 

Unassisted access  

 

That makes it a nonsense surely? Why on earth can’t that access be used? Sounds perfect. There is no way someone disabled would choose to live in my house. The parking is at the side and is quite a distance from both front and back doors. 

[ProDave]

15 minutes ago, newhome said:

 

That makes it a nonsense surely? Why on earth can’t that access be used? Sounds perfect. There is no way someone disabled would choose to live in my house. The parking is at the side and is quite a distance from both front and back doors. 

We were told the same.

 

Our car parking is alongside the house.  I wanted to make the ramp from the back of the parking area along the back of the house up onto the deck that will have level access to the patio doors.  But I was told no, it has to be to the principle entrance now.

[Jeremy Harris]

In England and Wales it can be any entrance on the "entry level" of the house, according to Part M.  It doesn't specify that the principal entrance, or a side entrance, has to be the one with disabled access, all that it stipulates is that there must be easy access from the set-down area outside, into the entrance level of the house and thence to a WC that meets the Part M requirements.  None of the rest of the entrance level of the house has to have disabled access, only the route from out side to the WC.

 

The problem seems to be that building inspectors apply their own judgement as to what does and does not comply, and so we end up with some people being told one thing and others being told something completely different, or even contradictory (and I accept that Scottish building regs are different to those that apply in England and Wales (not sure about NI, do they have their own different set of regs, too?).

[nod]

12 minutes ago, newhome said:

 

That makes it a nonsense surely? Why on earth can’t that access be used? Sounds perfect. There is no way someone disabled would choose to live in my house. The parking is at the side and is quite a distance from both front and back doors. 

Well funny you should say that 

My wife’s brother has multipul cancers and struggles 

He has his own remote for the side gates and comes in through the French doors 

Drives his little scooter within inches of the doors 

He will perhaps be spending what’s left of his life with us very soon 

I intend paving he area in front of the double doors He can simply drive onto the tiled floor 

I asked him if he can cope with the 35 mil drop 

He just laughed 

But Rules are Rules 

I would gues most disabled or elderly would choose option 3 

 

I will keep everyone posted 

As there must be others on here that would like to get there vat back Then make up all There paths and drives etc 

[newhome]

Sorry to hear about your BIL @nod and yes, maybe the views of disabled people should be taken into account more rather than blindly following rules, especially since you have a disabled person about to move in who is fine with using the other entrance. The inspectors get really het up about the word level though. 

[Ferdinand]

22 minutes ago, nod said:

there must be others on here that would like to get there vat back Then make up all There paths and drives etc

 

I believe that we’re it in the PP, they could have had the VAT back on those as well.

 

Were They adaptations to an existing house, I think te( access work would not be VATable.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

[joe90]

28 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

we end up with some people being told one thing and others being told something completely different, or even contradictory (and I accept that Scottish building regs are different to those that apply in England and Wales (not sure about NI, do they have their own different set of regs, too?).

 

Yet another example of B Inspectorsnot being consistent.

[Hecateh]

My door and window supplier was a small local company.  I made the common mistake of thinking they knew their job and complying with building regs and didn't discuss the fact the main entry door should have a level access and they installed one with the standard access.  My BI said it was fine.  That, as I was building the property for myself, it wasn't important.  He is a very experienced guy.  He used to work for a local authority but has done private work for years.

[Jeremy Harris]

46 minutes ago, newhome said:

Sorry to hear about your BIL @nod and yes, maybe the views of disabled people should be taken into account more rather than blindly following rules, especially since you have a disabled person about to move in who is fine with using the other entrance. The inspectors get really het up about the word level though. 

 

In my case I have a good friend who's paraplegic and uses a wheelchair much of the time, although he can get about with leg braces and crutches (means he can stand at the bar in the pub, and can't fall over...).  I had him around in his chariot to advise on how suitable our access was (not just the ramp, but wheelchair turning and manoeuvring spaces, and WC access).  He suggested a couple of small changes, including one that was counter to Part M, which was to position the WC slightly closer to the wall (less chance of falling sideways, something he says can be a PITA when a WC is placed well away from a wall to one side).  All our doors are 33" wide, with level thresholds, largely because I knew he'd be around here a fair bit. 

 

Our building inspector questioned why the WC was a bit closer to the wall than stipulated in Part M, and I explained that I'd had a friend around who'd suggested that having a wall to lean against made things easier for him, and the inspector just accepted that without question.  The bottom line is that Part M isn't the regulations, it's just a suggested method by which the recommendations may be complied with, so is really just guidance, much like BS7671:2018 isn't regulation or law either, it's just guidance as to good practice.

[joe90]

51 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

having a wall to lean against made things easier for him, and the inspector just accepted that without question.

 

Its nice to hear about a B.I.that uses common sense.

[ProDave]

Some aspects of the "accessability" regulations are just plain daft.

 

We have to have a "circulation space" in a kitchen at least 1400 by 1800.  We have an ilsland in the kitchen, so it is set 1400 from the main units.  The other side it also has a 1400mm gap to the fridge and some shelving, so it complies.  BUT at that side there is a 300mm overhanging breakfast bar, which is allowed to intrude into your circulation space.  It none the less makes that side feel cramped.

 

Once it is all signed off the island is going to walk over 200mm closer to the main units and it will feel a whole lot better for it.

 

One of my "after completion" jobs

[newhome]

1 hour ago, Hecateh said:

My door and window supplier was a small local company.  I made the common mistake of thinking they knew their job and complying with building regs and didn't discuss the fact the main entry door should have a level access and they installed one with the standard access.  My BI said it was fine.  That, as I was building the property for myself, it wasn't important.  He is a very experienced guy.  He used to work for a local authority but has done private work for years.

 

I think you are very fortunate because there is no way that you would get away with that with 99% of inspectors I believe. The very nature of a self build means that the properties are for the people building them so I'm not quite clear where your BI is coming from TBH. Anyway, we all need a bit of good fortune, especially in this game, so your turn to have some 

[nod]

12 minutes ago, joe90 said:

 

Its nice to hear about a B.I.that uses common sense.

Thanks 

Just As we started the build 

Went to the docs Stiff kneck 

51 never been ill cycles everywhere 

cancer in his spine lunge kidney 

liver 

He lived in our dining room while we have been doing the build 

Just finished two years of imuno theropy 

Started Chemo yesterday 

It does make you count your blessings 

[newhome]

3 minutes ago, nod said:

Went to the docs Stiff neck 

 

 

Similar to my hubby. Fit, healthy, in the middle of a self build, never been sick apart from having crap knees. Went to the doc with a pain in his side that he thought was due to climbing up and down the scaffold tower. Diagnosed with terminal cancer. Life changes in an instant. Carpe diem. 

 

[newhome]

2 hours ago, nod said:

As there must be others on here that would like to get there vat back Then make up all There paths and drives etc 

 

2 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

I believe that were it in the PP, they could have had the VAT back on those as well.

 

 

 

You can get the VAT back on the hard landscaping whether it's in the PP or not. It's in VAT Notice 708 as 'work closely connected to the construction of the building' so @nod you may wish to consider buying the materials for this work and storing them so that you can claim the VAT back even if you aren't in a position to complete the work just now. 

 

Quote

• VAT Notice 708 section 3.3.4
•  
• the means of providing within the development site access to the building (for example roads, footpaths, parking areas, drives and patios)
• the means of providing security (such as walls, fences and gates)

 

[lizzie]

I was signed off in April vat claim in July.  I still had men on site doing hard landscaping in August. I bought all materials prior to sending in vat claim...some between April and July and they were allowed.  I had non vat reg labour so it worked out ok.

 

About to do some more hard landsaping this spring not able to claim vat back on any more materials, I have some stored from last year but not enough to do all I plan.

 

I didnt have the issue with disabled access for sign off as my whole build was done with disabled access to the entire building inside and out.

Edited March 16, 2019 by lizzie

[joe90]

I have had cancer, twice, during our build and lost my late wife to cancer when our kids were teenagers, life is shit sometimes but I have to say having this build has been my therapy in some ways, I struggle at times but get soooo much satisfaction out what I can do. Life is short and it’s not a rehearsal.

[Ed Davies]

5 hours ago, ProDave said:

Our car parking is alongside the house.  I wanted to make the ramp from the back of the parking area along the back of the house up onto the deck that will have level access to the patio doors.  But I was told no, it has to be to the principle entrance now. 

 

When's “now”?  I.e., which edition is your house? 2013, 4.1.7:

 

https://www2.gov.scot/resource/buildingstandards/2013Domestic/chunks/ch05s02.html

 

“Whilst an accessible entrance to a house is commonly the front or main entrance, an alternate entrance may be designated as the accessible entrance where this provides a more convenient or practical route into the dwelling.”

 

2017 handbook says exactly the same thing.

[newhome]

1 hour ago, Ed Davies said:

“Whilst an accessible entrance to a house is commonly the front or main entrance, an alternate entrance may be designated as the accessible entrance where this provides a more convenient or practical route into the dwelling.”

 

My building warrant is earlier regs but we were told we could have the accessible entrance either at the front or back door but it was more convenient to fit it at the front door. I never actually use the front entrance in truth and only open it when people arrive at the door as it's easier to get to the car from the back door. 

[nod]

6 hours ago, newhome said:

 

 

 

You can get the VAT back on the hard landscaping whether it's in the PP or not. It's in VAT Notice 708 as 'work closely connected to the construction of the building' so @nod you may wish to consider buying the materials for this work and storing them so that you can claim the VAT back even if you aren't in a position to complete the work just now. 

 

 

Do you think I would be pushing it buying the drive matting in

The type that allows you just to have a thin layer of stones 

[newhome]

3 minutes ago, nod said:

Do you think I would be pushing it buying the drive matting in

The type that allows you just to have a thin layer of stones 

 

No one can say for certain what HMRC will allow but I don't see why that wouldn't be reclaimable as driveways certainly are and it doesn't say what construction method you need to use. There are some eyewateringly expensive methods used in hard landscaping so I don't know why matting would be excluded. 

 

[nod]

4 minutes ago, newhome said:

 

No one can say for certain what HMRC will allow but I don't see why that wouldn't be reclaimable as driveways certainly are and it doesn't say what construction method you need to use. There are some eyewateringly expensive methods used in hard landscaping so I don't know why matting would be excluded. 

 

??

[ProDave]

3 hours ago, Ed Davies said:

 

When's “now”?  I.e., which edition is your house? 2013, 4.1.7:

 

https://www2.gov.scot/resource/buildingstandards/2013Domestic/chunks/ch05s02.html

 

“Whilst an accessible entrance to a house is commonly the front or main entrance, an alternate entrance may be designated as the accessible entrance where this provides a more convenient or practical route into the dwelling.”

 

2017 handbook says exactly the same thing.

Mine is being built to 2013 building regs.

 

It was the BCO on an early visit that told me I can't do the ramp to the back.  It is probably very subjective but I suspect the issue was I wanted to build a ramp up to the deck, which would then have been a level timber deck leading up to a level threshold door, and it would have fallen foul of the "must be a permanent structure" bit which he does not believe includes a timber deck.