NSS Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Here's the issue. My daughter and her fella currently live in the house we lived in while we built the new one. It's 3-bed townhouse with concrete floors on all levels. Over the last 18 months (three water bills) average daily usage has increased from circa 330 litres per day (bill this time last year) to 460 litres per day (last August) and now 640 litres per day. The rise last August was unexpected so I investigated and replaced the flush valves in the toilets and the seals between the cisterns and bowls as they were leaking. I also checked all taps, etc and there was no sign of any other leakage. The latest rise was therefore completely unexpected so I've taken another look. With the stopcock turned off the meter stops, so it's apparently not a leak between the meter (at the front of the house) and the stopcock (under the sink at the rear of the property. However, due to the concrete floors, all pipework appears to run up into the ceiling void between ground and first floor (and on upwards from there). We reckon actual usage is probably circa 300 litres per day less than the meter shows, and 300 litres per day would have flooded the house never mind shown a damp patch somewhere (there is none). So, I spoke to Southern Water and suggested I'm suspicious that the meter is faulty. However, they say (because the meter stops when the stopcock is closed) that it can only be a leak in the property and, unless I can prove otherwise they will not check the operation of the meter. Any suggestions as to how I can check it myself would be much appreciated, cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennentslager Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Calibration of meter? get it sitting on a mark and run the bath tap and measure 100ltr into a bucket and pour away, you may have to run 500ltr due to the meter???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 It's a fair bit of hassle to install, but water meters aren't that expensive, so it might be worth fitting one on the house side of the stop cock if there's room: https://www.pipestock.com/meters-gauges/water-meters/single-jet-cold-water Seems a lot of trouble to go to to prove that the water meter is faulty, but it's hard to think of another way to get an accurate cross check. As @Tennentslager has suggested, a test of running off a known volume might work, but I think you'd need to have a pretty big tank to fill, or perhaps rely on filling several baths full, one after the other, to get an idea as to whether the meter was in error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSS Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 Thing is the issue seems to be getting progressively worse, suggesting (if it is the meter) that it's not merely calibration but increasing inaccuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSS Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 Have any of our plumbing experts come across such a situation before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 minute ago, NSS said: Thing is the issue seems to be getting progressively worse, suggesting (if it is the meter) that it's not merely calibration but increasing inaccuracy. The increasing scale of the problem seems to indicate a leak that's steadily getting worse, but as you've mentioned, any leak of that size should be producing a visible effect somewhere. Hard to know what to suggest, especially as you seem to have ruled out the possibility of a leak on both the house side of the stop cock and the section from the meter to the stop cock, which is perhaps the most likely place for any hidden leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSS Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 Probably have room to install a meter after the stopcock so may have to try that. Circa £25 for a meter is small beer compared to the £436 they've just been billed for the last 6 months! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue B Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Is there a garden tap anywhere? We had a sink at the end of our last garden in a gazebo. At the start of winter, we turned off the supply under the kitchen sink and opened the tap in the gazebo - to protect from frost. We had some plumbing work done a few months later and unbeknownst to us, the plumber turned the supply back on under the sink. We were going off to the Caribbean the next day completely unaware. When we got home, we looked at the garden and scratched our head at the waterlogged shrub bed. It took a while to realise that the tap was running full blast. The drain, being in a garden gazebo, just went into the bed. The water company actually gave us a credit for the bill surprisingly enough as it was completely accidental. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSS Posted February 15, 2019 Author Share Posted February 15, 2019 20 minutes ago, Sue B said: Is there a garden tap anywhere? There is, but it's on the outside wall of the kitchen and not leaking. I only hope that SW are half as understanding if it turns out to be a meter fault! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue B Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Can you take a meter reading first thing in the morning, turn everything off in the house and take another reading much later that day? As long as you know everything is off, you should be fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennentslager Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 If you move to glorious Scotia all will be well...no meters for domestic property here. If you have a hairdressers in Possilpark though you will have a friendly plumber who will fit the meter bypass tube for 9 months of the year in exchange for the wife getting a free Brazilian for his birthday ? Note to editors Possilpark is a lovely district to the north of Glasgow famous for a ancient meteor strike which created Possil Loch, a haven for wildlife and visited by Charles Darwin in his tours before he wrote that book. Also known as an area of multiple deprivation. A Brazilian is of course a native of the South American country who may or may not be fluent in Portuguese but also used colloquially to refer to the shape of *cut* a lady may employ in the *lets get it off cos it’s his birthday * area below the waist. Further note. in Possil (short for Possilpark) the beauticians have a cartoon drawing...unfolded on A4 paper and displayed privately to ensure the customer and the therapist are on the same page pre waxing. This is due to previous violent repercussions after misunderstandings between a Californian and a Brazilian... not the look one requests resulting in much dissatisfaction ??? Sorry boss, serious question but it is Friday ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Neil Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Can't you get doo-daaa's you can attach to taps which measure the water as it runs through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) We are talking of a 100% variance in use here. Most water meters will measure down to 10ltr units. Turn off the internal stopcock; wait 30 mins and reread. The meter shouldn't have moved. Turn on the cock but make sure no one flushes loos etc for 30 mins and repeat. Turn it on again and draw off 50ltr using a bucket at the outside tap and reread. This binary chop should be enough to give you a good idea of where the issue is. Edited February 17, 2019 by TerryE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Davies Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 54 minutes ago, TerryE said: We are talking of a 100% variance in use here. Most water meters will measure down to 10ltr units. Turn off the internal stopcock; wait 30 mins and reread. Wouldn't it better to wait an hour? It looks like the reading is about an extra 300 litres per day so around 12 litres per hour so to see it for sure on a meter working in 10 litre units… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryE Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 I take a photo of mine using my phone. It's a lot easier doing side by side comparisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSS Posted February 18, 2019 Author Share Posted February 18, 2019 Bugger! Had a plumber round today and it turns out to be the stopcock itself is leaking. Only the handle is visible through the back of the sink cupboard and the leak has been running down into the 4" sleeve coming up from beneath the floor (yes, turns out it is routed under the floor) so no evidence of the leak internally. I estimate the leak has cost over £600 in additional water usage in the last 12 months. Expensive lesson leaned! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Ouch! That is an expensive leak. How much water does that £600 represent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Check with the insurers as ours covers lost water. And also speak to rhe water company as they may make an allowance on the sewerage part of the bill if it’s a known leak that wasn’t going into the drains. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSS Posted February 18, 2019 Author Share Posted February 18, 2019 Actually, it's more like £ 28 minutes ago, JSHarris said: Ouch! That is an expensive leak. How much water does that £600 represent? Actually, it's more like £400 (roughly 96 cubic metres more that I'd have expected against historical usage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSS Posted February 18, 2019 Author Share Posted February 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, PeterW said: Check with the insurers as ours covers lost water. And also speak to rhe water company as they may make an allowance on the sewerage part of the bill if it’s a known leak that wasn’t going into the drains. Thanks Peter, definitely worth a try ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Can he stop the leak just by tightening the nut on the stuffing gland? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSS Posted February 18, 2019 Author Share Posted February 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, ProDave said: Can he stop the leak just by tightening the nut on the stuffing gland? Don't know, but plan is to replace the stopcock altogether as it's so difficult to get at we don't want to risk it starting to leak again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 16 minutes ago, NSS said: Actually, it's more like £400 (roughly 96 cubic metres more that I'd have expected against historical usage). Ye Gods, that's a heck of a lot of water to have just drained away and been wasted. Just goes to show how a serious leak can go undetected, and makes you wonder how many other leaks of this sort of magnitude there are in the system. That's roughly two thirds of our annual water usage, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSS Posted February 18, 2019 Author Share Posted February 18, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, JSHarris said: Ye Gods, that's a heck of a lot of water to have just drained away and been wasted. Just goes to show how a serious leak can go undetected, and makes you wonder how many other leaks of this sort of magnitude there are in the system. That's roughly two thirds of our annual water usage, I think. We've only used 98 m3 in our new house in the past year. By comparison, they've 'used' 111 m3 in the last 6 months! Edited February 18, 2019 by NSS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stones Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 4 minutes ago, JSHarris said: Ye Gods, that's a heck of a lot of water to have just drained away and been wasted. Just goes to show how a serious leak can go undetected, and makes you wonder how many other leaks of this sort of magnitude there are in the system. That's roughly two thirds of our annual water usage, I think. IIRC around 20% of our treated supply (about 3 billion litres a day) is lost through leaking pipes. https://www.discoverwater.co.uk/leaking-pipes Yet the only answer (from the Water co perspective) seems to be punishing consumers - metering, restrictions, high prices etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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