Heat and sound insulation

[Sjk]

Hi all

 

i am really keen to get great sound and heat insulation, searching on here if I see many have timber frame or other construction methods. I was wondering what the best way if achieving good results with a brick and block construction? 

 

I dont really have extra space for thicker floors or walls to pad it out with extra insulation, maybe there is higher spec material I can use etc?

 

any way tips are massively appreciated 

[scottishjohn]

start with full spec of house you want to alter ,  and  current insulation levels  if you want meaningful replies for solutions.

 

[jfb]

How thick can your walls be? How much insulation are you hoping to have under your floor? Thinnest bang for your u value buck in masonry build is probably single skin blocks and ewi. Cavity wall is possible but to get a decent level of insulation  to you are looking at 200mm cavity and so a wider wall 

[Sjk]

11 minutes ago, scottishjohn said:

start with full spec of house you want to alter ,  and  current insulation levels  if you want meaningful replies for solutions.

 

 

Its very much open, there is no current insulation levels. 

[Sjk]

Currently we have a planned 100mm cavity 

[nod]

1 hour ago, Sjk said:

Hi all

 

i am really keen to get great sound and heat insulation, searching on here if I see many have timber frame or other construction methods. I was wondering what the best way if achieving good results with a brick and block construction? 

 

I dont really have extra space for thicker floors or walls to pad it out with extra insulation, maybe there is higher spec material I can use etc?

 

any way tips are massively appreciated 

I Quik answer is yes Brick and block all day long for sound 

Timber is hopeless 

For sound insulation it’s all about keeping walls and cieling Seperate 

as much as possible 

If you go down the route of TF It is well worth hanging a mf cieling 50 mil below the floor joists 

[recoveringbuilder]

Our tf is all done with double acoustic boards which I couldn’t quite get my head round at the time but my do they work! If I shout to my hubby in another room he can’t hear me and it’s not him turning a deaf ear, if I am outside the lounge and he speaks to me I can’t hear him either!

[Sjk]

Interesting, thanks for the replies. 

 

I hadnt thought about single skin with ewi. Excellent to hear about the double acoustic boards

 

Likely to use easijoists for the upper floors. 

 

Not it sure how to go about getting sound insulation between bedrooms upstairs. 

[nod]

2 hours ago, Sjk said:

Hi all

 

i am really keen to get great sound and heat insulation, searching on here if I see many have timber frame or other construction methods. I was wondering what the best way if achieving good results with a brick and block construction? 

 

I dont really have extra space for thicker floors or walls to pad it out with extra insulation, maybe there is higher spec material I can use etc?

 

any way tips are massively appreciated 

I Quik answer is yes Brick and block all day long for sound 

Timber is hopeless 

For sound insulation it’s all about keeping walls and cieling Seperate 

as much as possible 

If you go down the route of TF It is well worth hanging a mf cieling 50 mil below the floor joists 

 

ive put in a twin wall in MF between the two bathrooms 

You can’t even hear the loo flush when you are stood at the other side of the wall

It all about transfer of sound 

Timber soaks it like a sponge 

Mf is not even 10% of the densety of equivelant timber 

While I don’t claim to be an exspect 

I’ve specialised in sound and fireproofing for over thirty years 

[Sjk]

Im hoping small changes such as using 

 

https://www.forterra.co.uk/plugins/downloads/files/Thermalite_Turbo_datasheet_1.pdf

 

will all add up. 

[Moonshine]

4 hours ago, nod said:

I Quik answer is yes Brick and block all day long for sound 

Timber is hopeless 

 

It all about transfer of sound 

Timber soaks it like a sponge 

 

I wouldn't quite say timber is hopeless, relative to masonry, correctly designed and built it can perform as well as masonry overall (Rw), however where masonry comes into its own is low frequency resistance as it's got significantly more mass to it. If you compare the low frequency range sound insulation measure (Ctr) masonry is so much better.

[Moonshine]

7 hours ago, Sjk said:

Hi all

 

i am really keen to get great sound and heat insulation, searching on here if I see many have timber frame or other construction methods. I was wondering what the best way if achieving good results with a brick and block construction? 

 

I dont really have extra space for thicker floors or walls to pad it out with extra insulation, maybe there is higher spec material I can use etc?

 

any way tips are massively appreciated 

 

Are you looking at internal walls and floors rather than external facade elements?

 

If you are looking at internal spaces, building regs require a minimum sound insulation of Rw 40 dB. This can easily be achieved with standard plasterboard on timber studs with a bit of mineral in the cavity. Or if you are going masonry a 100mm block will do it.

 

If you want to increase over the minimum Rw requirements with timber then look to use additional layers of denser plasterboard (or even resilient bars), or with masonry use denser block.

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by Moonshine

[Sjk]

Cheers. 

 

Looking at at both internal and external. 

[joe90]

I regret not double boarding our ceilings, or soundblock PB. Even though ours meet building regs I have found speech can be heard between floors ?

 

P.S. our build is brick and block and external noise cannot be heard indoors.?

Edited February 10, 2019 by joe90

[nod]

1 hour ago, Moonshine said:

 

I wouldn't quite say timber is hopeless, relative to masonry, correctly designed and built it can perform as well as masonry overall (Rw), however where masonry comes into its own is low frequency resistance as it's got significantly more mass to it. If you compare the low frequency range sound insulation measure (Ctr) masonry is so much better.

I was speaking more about Studwork As aposed to mf

But you will always have more sound transfer on a house that is predominantly timber 

 

But if TF are far more suited to self builders Much quicker to get watertight 

We do blocks of student accommodation in T F Good for us as they are not weather dependant 

Why do the major house builders not go for TF 

They wouldnt sell 

[newhome]

1 minute ago, nod said:

Why do the major house builders not go for TF 

They wouldnt sell 

 

Developers use TF more than anything else up here. It's just what folk are used to I guess. 

[Moonshine]

30 minutes ago, Sjk said:

Looking at at both internal and external. 

 

If you are doing a external wall with two 100mm block, and 100mm cavity noise intrusion won't be an issue, however other facade elements such as glazing and vents are the potential issue.

 

1 minute ago, newhome said:

 

 

4 minutes ago, nod said:

Why do the major house builders not go for TF 

They wouldnt sell 

 

Oh they do, and they do sell. So many use timber framing, e.g. Persimmon do loads of timber frame, so much so they brought a timber frame company, Space 4.

[Sjk]

Sorry @nod what’s mf?

[Moonshine]

When you come to select plasterboard the surface mass of a selection of types are in the post below

 

 

[Sjk]

any one got any thoughts on Internal vs External wall insulation? Seriously considering a solid wall.

 

If i had IWI I could have a full brick wall, which would open up some different brick patterns, although this would be more expensive. I should be able to fit all the insulation myself, which I wouldnt be so confident doing with EWI.

 

EWI I could use cheap blocks, and I think the render would be more hard wearing than bricks... Although the bricks specs are as following.

 

Compressive strength ≥ 75N/mm2

Water absorption ≤ 7%

Durability F2

Active soluble salts content S2

Edited February 24, 2019 by Sjk