Nelliekins Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 OK, so after a few family issues, Kim and I have restarted first fix in earnest. Heating and hot water system are still ongoing in my other thread, and I will be returning to the blog in the next day or two. But we also need to sort out the design of the 2 bathrooms, and the walk in showers are giving me a headache... Our floor build up is a sub deck of 22mm caber shield, overlaid with 50mm of EPS70 (into which we have laid our UFH - but not under the shower or bath), and then 18mm caber floor on top as a floating floor. So basically an EPS sandwich ? I presume that whether we choose trays or formers, we will have to remove the 18mm floor and the 50mm EPS. Then the drain will go straight through the 22mm subfloor and out between the posi joists. This will naturally create a "sunken shower" - is that a good idea for waterproofing? The idea would be to tank the walls of the shower areas and the sunken floor. Kim doesn't trust tiles or grout or silicone, mainly because every time we have tried in the past (either ourselves or a tiler) we ended up with black mould and its a PITA to redo every year or two. So Kim wants to microcement the lot (which will be £££ that we don't have ?)... I think tanking and tiling should be good enough, although I don't know precisely why we end up with mould all the time! Help! @Nickfromwales - any thoughts on how to approach this? 1. Do we use a former or a tray? Pro's / con's? 2. Do we build up the floor height under the shower, or is the sunken area (68mm down) a useful thing for waterproofing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 I will comment on the tiles. Don;t. Use a waterproof wall board such as Multipanel instead. No joints, no grout, totally waterproof. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelliekins Posted February 5, 2019 Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 23 minutes ago, ProDave said: I will comment on the tiles. Don;t. Use a waterproof wall board such as Multipanel instead. No joints, no grout, totally waterproof. Thanks Dave. How do you get the wall-to-floor junction to be waterproof as well - sealant? Our shower areas are both approx 1800x1000mm - do you get panels full width, or do you have vertical joints that have to be sealed somehow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 A lot to be said for the panels plus you can get some that are tile effect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 8 hours ago, Nelliekins said: Thanks Dave. How do you get the wall-to-floor junction to be waterproof as well - sealant? Our shower areas are both approx 1800x1000mm - do you get panels full width, or do you have vertical joints that have to be sealed somehow? The floor is tanked (wet room) and the tanking goes a little way up the wall. The floor was then tiled. Then the wall board applied. Clear sealant (I used stixall) to seal the bottom edge, wiped clean so it does not protrude, then when that has dried a bead of white sealant as a decorative finish. I used the plain boards that have a vertical joint, as it happens there is only one such joint. Theu also do a version where the panels interlock to the next one making an invisible joint. About £100 per sheet from Jewsons They do sell an edge bead to seal the bottom joint but aparently it is very poor and leaves the bottom of the panel sitting in a channel of water. Avoid using that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jimbo Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 I would second the wall board panels. They look great in my opinion, and no grout to either go Black, or leak. Used them on my Daughters last year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stones Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 I'll third the use of wall boards vs tiles. 2 years on they look as good as new. Ours are fitted with a shower tray, the boards sealed as @ProDave describes. A doodle to keep clean, wouldn't ever consider tiles in a shower area again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 We've also used Multipanel boards. I first used them when refurbishing the bathroom/shower in our old house, well over 10 years ago now. We were so impressed with them that we've used them in both bathrooms in the new house. The bottom junction with the shower/bath is best done by ignoring the bloody awful trim/seal (which doesn't) that they recommend, as it works like a gutter to trap moisture at the bottom of the panel. Instead I packed the panels up above the shower with bits of 4mm to 5mm ply, then removed these packers once the panels were bonded tight to the wall. It was pretty easy to just run sealant in the gap to seal the lower edge properly. I chose to bond on (with sealant) a PVC trim at the bottom edge, just because I don't like cleaning sealant that goes mouldy. This covers up all the sealant and gives a wipe-clean surface, just like the panels themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultramods Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 I’m looking at using some large format tiles so that there are less joins/grout. 750 x 1500mm https://www.imolaceramica.com/media/depliant/DP LIME-ROCK.pdf 1200 x 2600mm https://www.imolaceramica.com/media/depliant/DP THE ROOM.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 18 hours ago, Nelliekins said: So Kim wants to microcement the lot We rent a villa in Portugal and they have used this extensively. It has discoloured and some areas have lifted. It was apparently very expensive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelliekins Posted February 6, 2019 Author Share Posted February 6, 2019 6 hours ago, JSHarris said: We've also used Multipanel boards. I first used them when refurbishing the bathroom/shower in our old house, well over 10 years ago now. We were so impressed with them that we've used them in both bathrooms in the new house. The bottom junction with the shower/bath is best done by ignoring the bloody awful trim/seal (which doesn't) that they recommend, as it works like a gutter to trap moisture at the bottom of the panel. Instead I packed the panels up above the shower with bits of 4mm to 5mm ply, then removed these packers once the panels were bonded tight to the wall. It was pretty easy to just run sealant in the gap to seal the lower edge properly. I chose to bond on (with sealant) a PVC trim at the bottom edge, just because I don't like cleaning sealant that goes mouldy. This covers up all the sealant and gives a wipe-clean surface, just like the panels themselves. Wow Jeremy - looks good. I think she'd go for that (apart from the tiled floor, which will either be microcement all over, or vinyl planks like we have in our current house). 38 minutes ago, Mr Punter said: We rent a villa in Portugal and they have used this extensively. It has discoloured and some areas have lifted. It was apparently very expensive. Cheers for that - good ammo in my argument to not microcement! It costs from approx £55 per m2 installed, so certainly not cheap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelliekins Posted February 6, 2019 Author Share Posted February 6, 2019 Thanks for all the tips so far. Time to dig a little deeper! Here are the room layouts... Main bathroom first: If I had the danglies for it, I'd have followed @Onoff's fantastic bathroom build... but time and money constraints mean this will be a "for now" job, rather than a "forever" job. The 600mm unit top-left is the toilet cistern cupboard, then 2 sinks (our girls fight over the single sink in the main bathroom here -this is my attempt to alleviate stress in the mornings!). I'm tempted to build out the wall between the bath and shower, and build in storage for shampoo etc, and also an access panel for the shower controls / mixer. That would push the towel rail up above the end of the bath, which isn't really a problem. The en-suite is similar, albeit no bath and it is serviced by a pocket door in the middle of the left-hand wall: (Kim and I don't fight over sinks, but we'll still probably put 2 in - they're going in/on the long cupboard run "above" the shower area.) I would like the shower area to span the full 1790mm (yes - it should have been 1800mm, but I put the pocket door wall in the wrong place because I hadn't allowed for the MR plasterboard - the perils of trying to do too many jobs at the same time!). But SWMBO is "suggesting" (read "demanding upon pain of death") that we have some special former that works well with microcement and only comes in a few sizes... ? The fact that we will be sunken in should allow us to not have to worry about any fall on the rest of the floor - it makes the shower area fully contained at floor level. It's just how best to make sure we don't get leaks, and we don't get mould. Oh, and on the mould front... I've been assuming that it is exacerbated by having the shower area closed off and getting standing water. The stud walls that close off the shower area are going to be stopped at 2m high, so that air will circulate above them (and hopefully the MVHR extract vents being above the shower areas will help). Anything else I can do (as part of the construction) to prevent the mould from appearing in the first place? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 22 minutes ago, Nelliekins said: I would like the shower area to span the full 1790mm (yes - it should have been 1800mm Why not just cut out a bit of plasterboard at the bottom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 You may find the stud walls make the room seem a bit smaller. We have frameless glass shower screens which make the most of the space. Also a large mirror is good and useful. Where are the actual WCs? Did you look at wall hung WCs and vanity units? Again, because more floor is visible the room appears larger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Nelliekins said: If I had the danglies for it, I'd have followed @Onoff's fantastic bathroom build... but time and money constraints mean this will be a "for now" job, rather than a "forever" job. I have absolutely no idea what this has cost me tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpd Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 7 hours ago, JSHarris said: The bottom junction with the shower/bath is best done by ignoring the bloody awful trim/seal (which doesn't) that they recommend, as it works like a gutter to trap moisture at the bottom of the panel. I understand this concern but went around it a slightly different way as I wanted to avoid any silicone on show.. I used the trim but I covered every internal surface with clear CT1 and then compressed the board down into the trim, there is just no way water is getting in ! I then used a shower tray with upstands and the wall board came down over these upstands with a gap at the bottom. It was fully bonded to the wall behind including tanking the lower section like @ProDave did. It works very well and no problem so far (2 years) The only improvement I would make would be to have made the gap / drip line at the bottom very slightly bigger for ease of cleaning, say 10mm as I only left about 5mm and it’s a faff to clean. This is in my cabin and used by geusts who all like my quirky shower room! Not main stream but just another option on the use of trims. Not a great photo of the detail but just one I had to hand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelliekins Posted February 6, 2019 Author Share Posted February 6, 2019 2 hours ago, Onoff said: I have absolutely no idea what this has cost me tbh. If it had been me, it would have cost my sanity and what remains of my hair, I suspect... Your thread is legendary, sir! /me doffs cap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelliekins Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 13 hours ago, Mr Punter said: Why not just cut out a bit of plasterboard at the bottom? Because then there's nothing to seal any tray against... That seems to be a bad idea, given everybody here appears to tank and then seal trays / formers against a tanked wall! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I had to cut a slot in the plasterboard to fit our shower tray, as I made a slight misjudgement when setting the finished room width at 2m, the same width as the tray. It wasn't a problem, as I just fitted a bit of thin ply in the slot and then tanked the floor and up over the ply, then up the rest of the wall behind the wall boards. Once fitted, the gap around the tray and the wall was filled with Sikaflex, then the wall boards were fitted, with more sealant along the join with the top of the tray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I would just unscrew the bottom board and trim it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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