jamiehamy Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Hi all, Been laid up feeling sorry for myself with a cold or something. Fed up with job and wondering what the next project should be. At the back of my mind I've always thought we could build on top of the garage and now I'm seriously thinking of it. Would like to hear thoughts. I've got nothing firm other than the below: Garage roof is reinforced concrete and was rated at 10kN loading by design. Area is approx 7m x 11m Walls are 250mm reinforced concrete Thinking we could build a single bed apartment on it. With a view to a retirement income, we could build to a high spec as per a few of the folks in here and let it out. I've not done detailed study of the Local Plan yet so clearly absolute condition on that. Would be single storey with same pitch roof as main house (5degrees I think) to keep a low profile,possibly sharing the drive or steps from layby with option of wheelchair access using the main drive as required. Could I build it such that BC regs do not apply? I could use icf, would be really easy but permenent. If I did timber framed, could I build it in two sections such that it could be craned off if needed? The thinking behind it is as much around trying to generate an income that could support us in retirement as much as anything else. We have no plans moving so making an assumption we will be here when we retire. I've attached pic of garage. As you can see, driveway is not finished - if I was going to attempt something like this, I would try incorporate 'things' into the drive, like possible soil drainage to the existing outlet (water run) possibly different levels to support true level threshold and disabled access, maybe prefab concrete steps up the side(assumption is entrance from this side) Thanks, Jamie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crofter Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 First question has to be- what do you think the market is in your area for holiday lets? Party size, length of stay, seasonality, and of course the going rate for accommodation. Occupancy rates will make a massive difference to your income. Here in Skye, the market has shifted in recent years- people offering weekly lets are beginning to struggle, whereas those offering shorter stays are doing very well. The traditional model of a Saturday changeover is much less lucrative, so if you work full time you need to employ changeover staff to cover the mid-week cleaning. Perhaps less of an issue if you are retired, of course. Out of curiosity, what do you see as being the advantages of going BC exempt? It was a path that suited me quite well, being almost 100% DIY, but for a more typical project where trades are employed it loses much of its benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiehamy Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 Thanks @Crofter. I've started looking at the local market. We're just outside Largs which is a popular tourist place in summer, 3 marinas within 10miles, airport 40mins and the whole of the Clyde, Argyll and the west of Scotland with all its delights on the doorstep! In terms of going BC exempt, I think I've seen what you and others have done and like the idea - potentially a cost saving on architect fees/bc fees etc. It will also help keep the design more simple I think, we'd be building it ourselves. There is also an element of the 'doing it that way because we can'. I like that, I'll admit! Let wise, we are always flexible and can work from home when needed, which is good. Theoretically there could be a market for some sort of longer term let due to the power station (esp when they start decommissioning) - friends did similar and often had pilots stay for 6 months (they were next to the airport) . Tonight is the first time I've given serious thought to his idea - previously we'd thought of buying land on the west coast and having our own wee holiday home we could rent when not there. Second home style... But I do have concerns on various levels, not least being a poor neighbour! It's not a great model for Scotland or communities so think I've talked myself out of that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSelfBuild Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Hi Jamie, Dropped you a PM to discuss a few things and for the benefit of @Crofter and everyone else I'll mention a little tip I have uncovered. Not sure on both of your energy situations but since you both have or will have 2 dwellings you are eligible for a commercial RHI. You can have a split phase supply put in that feeds two air source heat pumps in the properties and thus qualifies for the commercial RHI. It is set to cash flow us about £200k over the next 20 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 @jamiehamy Sounds like a cracking idea to me. 2 minutes ago, iSelfBuild said: Hi Jamie, Dropped you a PM to discuss a few things and for the benefit of @Crofter and everyone else I'll mention a little tip I have uncovered. Not sure on both of your energy situations but since you both have or will have 2 dwellings you are eligible for a commercial RHI. You can have a split phase supply put in that feeds two air source heat pumps in the properties and thus qualifies for the commercial RHI. It is set to cash flow us about £200k over the next 20 years. I've suggested this to a number of clients now We did another on a log gasification boiler instead of a WBS+BB as the latter didn't attract RHI, but the LGB does. Lots of great 'commercial' incentives about, but not many people jump to take advantage for whatever reason I suspect its because of the fear of the capital outlay, but there are loans about specifically to facilitate this IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSelfBuild Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said: @jamiehamy Sounds like a cracking idea to me. I've suggested this to a number of clients now We did another on a log gasification boiler instead of a WBS+BB as the latter didn't attract RHI, but the LGB does. Lots of great 'commercial' incentives about, but not many people jump to take advantage for whatever reason I suspect its because of the fear of the capital outlay, but there are loans about specifically to facilitate this IIRC. I loved the idea of the wood gasification boiler, was looking at the eco angus but practically it seemed a burden and rope round our neck. Processing all those logs and being on site for the batch burning. Let me know about those loans if you have details? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 7 minutes ago, iSelfBuild said: Let me know about those loans if you have details? Plenty available in Scotland http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/scotland/grants-loans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 11 minutes ago, iSelfBuild said: I loved the idea of the wood gasification boiler, was looking at the eco angus but practically it seemed a burden and rope round our neck. Processing all those logs and being on site for the batch burning. Let me know about those loans if you have details? Will do. I'll be speaking to the installers ( I've subbed in ) later this week for a progress / scheduling report so will get some info asap. Its the Eco Angus Arligno 200 I went with, 40kW ( for the thicker walled steel ) and a much bigger fuel chamber for a lesser number of batch burns per TS recharge. £12k back over 7 years isn't to be sniffed at ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiehamy Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 Thanks folks - interesting! Rich will message you shortly. Have done some research this morning - we are inspired for this idea of high quality self catering as I say by @Crofter, having stayed on Eigg (Sweeney's Bothy) and recently on Harris in a stunning self catering house. So figured we may offer something similar here - Largs is a perfect base for tourists - there are ferries for Arran, to Bute, to Cumbrae (Millport) and to Argyll all within a 20minute drive. You have Ayr, Prestwick, Turnberry Golf Courses down the coast. Loch Lomond and the Trossachs are not far. You have the Arrochar Alps within an hour, the Country Park starts in the back garden. Largs is a nice place to spend time as well. So overall, it seems logical there *may* be demand for a nice, high quality self catering house. So I looked on AirBNB, Booking and Visit Scotland (which uses both the aforementioned + others). And found not a single place offering what we would. There are some hotels locally - a couple of good ones - plenty of old fashioned Guest Houses, and LOADS of - to me anyway - rather horrid offerings where people have turned their bog standard 1 or two bedroom apartment into a holiday offering. But no self contained, modern and dedicated tourist accomodation. None I would ever stay in. I've looked at the local plan - oh how I remember that well - I'll need to meet planning because like last time, we're in the Country Park but that doesn't neccessarily rule out development. Will be tricky, but I see some opportunities. Interesting around the RHI stuff. We are fully electric and I'll be honest, hating the bills - I like a warm house. That said, I did again do a quick look at ASHP and some other options and remembers why I ruled it out at the time - large capital outlay we didn't have. But I digress! ANy issues building on top of a garage? Would need to be well sound insulated - not sure what requirements there would be for Fire? It's a sheet metal decking roof - the undersode will eventually be insulated with rockwool, with battens and plasterboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 @jamiehamy, We're probably similar to your target market, in that we like to stay in reasonably nice self-catering accommodation from time to time and, as you say, there are some absolutely dire places around, especially in your neck of the woods. We booked a place not far from you a few years ago, arrived late in the evening, took one look at the place and decided to drive off and find a hotel for the night, it was that grim. Your location is good, it looks as if the accommodation and its setting might be ideal for couples, so I would think it should do well. I guess it really comes down to the return on your investment, but if viewed as a pension investment then that probably makes the sums look a bit better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stones Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 This is something I've been mulling over as I have land available. Assuming you have a reasonable market, and the return on investment is acceptable, I think they key question you have to ask yourself is whether you wish (now or in retirement) to be tied to having to manage and service such a business. Of the various locals I've spoken to who run their own holiday businesses, maintaining high standards is probably the most important thing, which for the most part means rolling your sleeves up and getting the scrubbing brush out. You could of course opt to get someone in to clean and do changeovers, but would they really do as good a job as you / to the standard you want. I'm not convinced (and judging from various places we've stayed in) that paying someone (unless you pay them an awful lot) to do the changeovers and cleaning will result in the high standards you aspire to. The other thing to consider is, again, in retirement, do you want to be tied to doing say two changeovers and scrub outs per week, not being able to holiday etc. A small part time job may well produce sufficient income, perhaps have more flexibility (depending on the job) and not tie up your capital. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Don't exclude us from your market (couples with child / children) The space you have is big enough for 2 bedrooms As an ex B&B proprietor I certainly would not want to run a B&B into retirement, that is too much work so the idea of the self catering sounds a lot less work. From a trade point of view, we found AirBnB very disappointing. Booking.com gave us (and continues to give our tenants) a steady stream of guests. You could follow the model we have (unintentionally) of just letting the whole thing to someone else that wants to run it. You would not get as much income, but you would not have to do much work either. The "portable building" / no building regs route frees you from some of the accessibility and circulation space requirements so may allow better use of space. You get into a grey area as a portable building can only be single storey. Some may argue being on top of a garage, it is 2 storey. Perhaps a phone call to the duty building control officer to clarify is you can build a portable building (caravan in building regs terms) on top of a concrete garage roof and still be BR exempt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamiehamy Posted January 8, 2019 Author Share Posted January 8, 2019 Ah! Excellent point @ProDave! We've mulled one or two beds. Was swaying to one, but I do very much take on your point. We want it to be small enough we don't attract - party guests... To be polite. I have some friends that whilst lovely, would never want t hem as neighbours even for a week! Regarding retirement, probably worth saying we'd like to retire much earlier if possible,or at least,part time working. Once we got older, we did actually discuss whether, years down the line, we move into and sell the big house. Really interesting thoughts. BR exemption isn't a deal breaker, just a bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 16 hours ago, iSelfBuild said: Hi Jamie, Dropped you a PM to discuss a few things and for the benefit of @Crofter and everyone else I'll mention a little tip I have uncovered. Not sure on both of your energy situations but since you both have or will have 2 dwellings you are eligible for a commercial RHI. You can have a split phase supply put in that feeds two air source heat pumps in the properties and thus qualifies for the commercial RHI. It is set to cash flow us about £200k over the next 20 years. THat is interesting. How large an installation is that? F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSelfBuild Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Ferdinand said: THat is interesting. How large an installation is that? F I think I might have done my sums wrong for the RHI... I have the company looking at it all tomorrow. With regards to the cabin. I believed if I achieved a cabin that was BS3632 (better insulated) it would be 0% VAT rated - It would have to be 200mm round logs. Since I'm renting it out I will have to pay 5% VAT regardless whether it achieves BS3632 or not. This means I can go down to 70mm rectangular logs, I looked at one which rents out all year round and looks lovely! It's a business so ROI needs to rule rather than my emotional preference. Personally I love the look of 200mm round log but the 70mm unit I looked at also looked nice! In terms of U Values - 200mm round log Window U-values are less than 1.4 W/m²K. Single 200mm. round log wall U-value 0,58 W/m²K. Roof U-value with standard materials is 0,16 W/m²K. Suspended U-value for floor 0,18 W/m²K. (Could be beefed up with kingspan but doubt I would bother) OR Lowest spec option - 70mm rectangle log Window U-values are less than 1.4 W/m²K. Single 70mm. round log wall U-value 1.41 W/m²K. Roof U-value with standard materials is 0,24 W/m²K. Suspended U-value U-value for floor 0,23 W/m²K. I wouldn't bother building it this low spec but It's pretty much how low spec I could go, I doubt it would be a comfortable temperature and I doubt a ASHP would work well... Still interested to see the RHI calculations! The other property it's on the commercial RHI scheme with is near enough passive standards. She has suggested an 8.5KW unit for about 180m2 building. Edited January 8, 2019 by iSelfBuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janelondon Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Very interested in your commercial RHI scheme details as well as we are considering district heating for our build (it has a house + cottage + possible garage flat). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSelfBuild Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, janelondon said: Very interested in your commercial RHI scheme details as well as we are considering district heating for our build (it has a house + cottage + possible garage flat). I'll post all the figures in here when I get them, nothing back today and I need them to make a decision now on the thickness of log. Most likely I will go for glulam 92mm logs. Rather than 200mm round or 70mm solid log - just worried on the suitability of the ASHP. Edited January 9, 2019 by iSelfBuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 21 hours ago, janelondon said: Very interested in your commercial RHI scheme details as well as we are considering district heating for our build (it has a house + cottage + possible garage flat). Would any of the units be rental ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 3 hours ago, iSelfBuild said: I'll post all the figures in here when I get them, nothing back today and I need them to make a decision now on the thickness of log. Most likely I will go for glulam 92mm logs. Rather than 200mm round or 70mm solid log - just worried on the suitability of the ASHP. What alternative would you have? Radiators? Don't discount a hybrid ASHP fortified with LPG. You can then also fit a gas hob / gas inset fire if easier / meagre electricity supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Make sure the sums work without any rhi payments. The guarantee that the payments will last 20 years aren't worth the paper they are written on. All the farmers and business's here in NI that invested in the flawed rhi scheme soon got the payments cut as soon as it suited. They took the government to court and lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iSelfBuild Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: What alternative would you have? Radiators? Don't discount a hybrid ASHP fortified with LPG. You can then also fit a gas hob / gas inset fire if easier / meagre electricity supply. The ones that rent out very well nearby are 75mm glulam with LPG boiler and radiators. That's not a bad shout to have LPG as well but don't particularly trust holiday makers with a gas hob lol. Log burner is a must! The site only has a pathetic 10mm armoured electric supply over 120m from my 100 amp fuse near the mast... so voltage drop etc and that size means we can't pull a massive amount from it. So I need to put in a much better supply if we go for ASHP (it actually needs and independent supply to both properties to qualify for comercial RHI I a told) cabin could keep the 10mm I guess if we worked it out properly, I'll drop you a PM Edited January 9, 2019 by iSelfBuild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Modern gas hobs will have an FFD ( flame failure device ) so the gas shuts off without the presence of a flame Idiot proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janelondon Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said: Would any of the units be rental ? The cottage may be used as an occasional holiday let. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 11 minutes ago, janelondon said: The cottage may be used as an occasional holiday let. Be careful not to badge your build as commercial in case this leads to a refusal of the VAT reclaim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janelondon Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 36 minutes ago, newhome said: Be careful not to badge your build as commercial in case this leads to a refusal of the VAT reclaim. Good point - thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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