Dreadnaught

Anyone have the MBC open panel 140mm wall system?

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Just now, PeterStarck said:

If considering I-beam construction did you look at Touchwood Homes?

 

Thanks. Yes, Peter. I have a quote from them (and visited two of their builds). I must say I rather like Touchwood's system. And they would also offer me the advantage that their frame team are relatively local (Hertfordshire I believe) so would avoid the expense of local accommodation.

 

Disadvantages are that, as far as I know, they only offer a full Passive-House specification product, which is inevitably more expensive than either MBC's passive option, let alone the 140mm-open-stud MBC option that I am now considering. And they don't offer a in-house foundation solution (although they do seem to recommend AFT for foundations).

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On ‎05‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 18:58, Dreadnaught said:

I suppose the advantages of the 300mm double-stud over the 140mm open are ...

 

The main disadvantage of course is that the built up profile is deeper than the Larson strut design.  If you are constrained on the external footprint, then this involves losing maybe 75mm of the insides of exterior walls.  We made this change after we had planning approval, so took this hit internally.  Even so, we don't regret this decision at all.

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24 minutes ago, TerryE said:

The main disadvantage of course is that the built up profile is deeper than the Larson strut design.  If you are constrained on the external footprint, then this involves loosing maybe 75mm of the insides of exterior walls.

 

Good point. Thanks. My architect mentioned this as an advantage too. I forgot to mention it.

 

25 minutes ago, TerryE said:

Even so, we don't regret this decision at all.

 

Oh, interesting. Why so when the U-values are comparable? Was it decrement delay and better sound insulation? Did you have a direct comparator to draw the comparison I wonder?

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On 05/01/2019 at 14:54, Declan52 said:

A 13t digger with an extension in the boom will lift whatever you need esp if it's only  a single storey.  You can get diggers with no tail swing that will be not much more than 2m wide. 

Exactly what our builders used to lift all the panels including upstairs and the big long ridge beam.

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2 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Exactly what our builders used to lift all the panels including upstairs and the big long ridge beam.

but if you have a narrow access road as we did the digger would have been running up and down it ad infinitum blocking everyones access and no doubt causing a bit of damage here and there

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5 minutes ago, lizzie said:

but if you have a narrow access road as we did the digger would have been running up and down it ad infinitum blocking everyones access and no doubt causing a bit of damage here and there

Our panels arrived on a 3 axle 3 ton trailer in several loads, delivered that way from the builders workshop to our site, and offloaded directly from that into position with the digger plus boom extension.  Such a trailer would be able to get into a smaller space than a more normal artic flatbed all in one go delivery.

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3 minutes ago, lizzie said:

but if you have a narrow access road as we did the digger would have been running up and down it ad infinitum blocking everyones access and no doubt causing a bit of damage here and there

You could unload from the main lorry onto a flat bed trailer at 8 panels at a time.  You will need another machine to lift from the lorry to the trailer if it doesn't have a hiab.  

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Posted (edited)

Just thinking out aloud as I know nothing compared to some on here regarding decrement delay and all that. 

Could you not use the thinner lighter frame and add wood fibre insulation to the outside to bring the frame up to a better standard, 

less insulation on the inside means bigger rooms, more insulation on the outside, the planners would never notice the house has grown a bit. 

You could carry these panels by hand, and fit extra insulation at your leisure once roof is on 

easy and light to install on the outside, you would just need to make the racking board the inside airtight layer, just like the mbc twin wall panel. 

Edited by Russell griffiths

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Posted (edited)

Regarding access, here's a view down the access road towards my plot. The gate to my plot is under that (slightly brown) chestnut tree at the end past the small silver car. Hopefully in the event I can convince the various neighbours to temporarily move their vehicles on frame day. As you can see, driving a digger around may be challenging.

 

 

Screenshot_2019-01-06_at_17_02_54.png

Edited by Dreadnaught

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Here's our 300mm thick frame and garage being delivered to our site:

 

5742ad66313cc_830amday1-1.thumb.JPG.04ff5671e6671d298bb351efc0f90272.JPG

 

That's a 38 tonne artic that hade driven over from Ireland with our house and garage on it.

 

This is it unloading, blocking the lane for around 6 hours or so:

 

 

5742ad6a4ca98_830amday1-2.thumb.JPG.c3eb3daeef0acc71c4e5532d7ccc8e4f.JPG

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Thanks @JSHarris. What a sight! And then I imagine you had a big crane for the offload, like @vivienz had? I suspect neither is a possibility on my site, which is why in their quote to me MBC allowed two entire extra days for the necessary manhandling.

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Thinking of things before you get to the frame stage

what about a concrete wagon and pump

what about muckaway. 

 

Maybe time to go and make friends with the neighbours. 

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8 minutes ago, Dreadnaught said:

Thanks @JSHarris. What a sight! And then I imagine you had a big crane for the offload, like @vivienz had? I suspect neither is a possibility on my site, which is why in their quote to me MBC allowed two entire extra days for the necessary manhandling.

 

Our site is tiny, yet we managed to get a 100ft jib crane on it (just):

 

1618057784_Crane1.thumb.JPG.eb787e14b3c845f641b2078d594a4efd.JPG

 

1649925973_Crane2.thumb.JPG.e999c924855e6cd7ea7f4972009627a8.JPG

 

247467504_Crane3.thumb.JPG.64607fd5d58159cf2b3dc64f23e6d580.JPG

 

 

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Just now, Russell griffiths said:

Thinking of things before you get to the frame stage

what about a concrete wagon and pump

what about muckaway

 

 

Yes indeed. They had cross my mind too. Will be quite a challenge. I imagine my frame will require  the smallest of everything: the smallest skip, smallest concrete wagon and pump, the smallest crane, the smallest forklift or telehandler. Hence I am proposing to use a smaller frame dimension too. At least that's my current thinking.

 

The neighbours are all quite lovely (they might be reading this)! Actually, it is generally quite neighbourly, with just a few "exceptions". The boathouse opposite my plot is being rebuilt at present and I have a good relationship with them. I have offered them the use of my plot during their build and they have indicated they will extend help to me when it is my turn.

 

A challenge is that the access road gets plenty of use, by the small silver car shown above, by boatclubs with boat trailers, and by hordes of students heading to the river to row at the crack-of-dawn. Beneath all that lie my utilities, all of them.

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You have seen my site so for reference this is a problem I also have

my roof timbers are 11m long and there is 32of them

what we are doing is to get them delivered directly to a farm a couple of miles away, he will unload them with the tele handler and reload onto a flat bed trailer, we will then drive to site and unload by hand. 

 

Do you know the exact  act weight of a panel ?

you may be worrying about nothing. 

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Looking at the tree it’s lowest branches don’t look like they comply with height regulations. 

Or is this before it was lifted. 

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3 minutes ago, Dreadnaught said:

Thanks for the photos @JSHarris. Who's MJ? Shouldn't it be JSH? :)

 

If you look carefully you can spot "JH" on my old Prius parked in once of the photos...

 

MJ Scaffolding were great, BTW, if anyone is looking for a scaffolder around our area.  We mucked them about a lot, with short-notice requests to changed the scaff, and they responded quickly every time.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

You have seen my site so for reference this is a problem I also have

 

I have and its just as spectacular in real life as it looks in the photos. Still envious!

 

5 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

what we are doing is to get them delivered directly to a farm a couple of miles away, he will unload them with the tele handler and reload onto a flat bed trailer, we will then drive to site and unload by hand. 

 

Yes, I wouldn't be surprised if that will prove to be a solution. I am quite keen to give the challenge to another company to handle, another attraction of using a company like MBC.

 

5 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Do you know the exact  act weight of a panel ?

 you may be worrying about nothing. 

 

I don't but I did witness @vivienz panels going up and the crane was enormous. But I am also led to believe that they can manufacture smaller panels if they must. I will be quite pleased to lay the entire challenge at their feet to solve.

 

 

Edited by Dreadnaught

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6 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said:

Looking at the tree it’s lowest branches don’t look like they comply with height regulations. 

Or is this before it was lifted. 

 

I know you know about such matters. That photo is before the crown lift but, as I am sure you know, a crown lift really only takes off the twigs (lots and lots of them) but not any main limb. There is one limb that encroaches across the gate which effectively provides a height restriction (and couldn't be removed).

 

Its worth noting that you cannot actually see the gate in the photo. Its hidden from view on the left beyond the small silver car.

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The panels aren't that heavy, as several of ours were just stacked up on the top level of the scaffolding and manhandled into place, IIRC.

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Having spent many years hiring cranes

you need a crane to do your job, not one you looked at on another site. 

Look how small Jeremy’s one was, yet I bet his panel weighed the same

crane hire is about the load verses the radius it need lifting to,  height is not normally a factor unless you are on a multi storey job. 

What you need is a city crane developed for use in (er cities) you need to measure the width of the street to accommodate the out riggers then you need to know the load, ( which will be tiny ) then the radius to the furthest panel placements. 

 

After writing all that guff you will probably be better off unloading somewhere else and bringing to site separately. 

 

How have mbc priced this ?

it could be cheaper for you to provide 3 blokes and a transit flatbed or trailer for two days to get the frame on site

you can bet mbc will put a good markup on this. 

Who pays for the crane ?

not having a crane will allow you to bribe a local farmer and pay 4 lads for a good couple of days

 

get 10 panels on site before mbc turn up, then as they start supply them with a new panels as you transport them. 

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How about the small fold up spider cranes?

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A 360 degree rotating telehander would do it as long as on site there is a spot to set up close enough to swing round and reach the majority of the build.  They are big and heavy and don't move across the ground the best though.  

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If it is to be an MBC house then I think they provide the equipment so its their call as to what would be best in the confined space.  Note their contract terms on damage caused and be on site the whole time to monitor it. If MBC are sugesting the alternative wall then maybe they are not confident in getting the other system down the narrow access. Have they made comment beyond the extra costs?

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