epsilonGreedy Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 I laid my blue mains water pipe to the static caravan today and need to connect it up tomorrow which will involve a few joints with Plasson connectors. If I practice with these connectors first on a test section of pipe will they be less effective when reused on a permanent joint? My concern is that the plastic in the fittings will distort once tightened up and then be less effective (grip or seal) when used a second time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Punter Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Not sure where you are with this but for the permanent supply it is preferable just to have a single length of pipe from the meter to the stopcock inside the house, with no connectors. Even if you have a temp supply to the caravan I would run to the house separately and reconnect. Also some people go for 32mm instead of 25mm but please don't ask me why! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 No practice needed just fit them it’s easy all you need is to follow a couple of rules. Get a towel and sit it on the floor beside you this will ensure you keep all the plastic bits out of the crud, keep everything grit free, clean everything spotless, the rubber o rings hate grit. Cut pipe clean and square remember to install a pipe stiffener, in every end of pipe. Mark pipe with a pen at insertion depth to ensure correct insertion lubricate O ring, lubricate pipe end Remember to put locking collar, nut on before installing fitting. Try to use a plasson spanner I have found these far superior to adjustable grips If you haven’t got the correct spanner just get on with it it’s not the end of the world, just don’t over tighten. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 17 minutes ago, Mr Punter said: Not sure where you are with this but for the permanent supply it is preferable just to have a single length of pipe from the meter to the stopcock inside the house, with no connectors. Even if you have a temp supply to the caravan I would run to the house separately and reconnect. Also some people go for 32mm instead of 25mm but please don't ask me why! You have described my long term plan pretty closely. I am lucky that it is only 4 meters from boundary meter to front wall of the house and this will be an independent straight run without connectors to FFL. The temp caravan supply route is more complicated as follows: Boundary meter > 2m pipe to builders stand pipe > connector > 20 meters pipe > T connector (with 3m branch to shed and Swmbo's washing machine) > 2m pipe > T connector (with branch off to temp garage supply > 4m to under belly of static caravan. Think I will be ok with 25mm because the water pressure is so high, the static caravan is currently connected via a garden hose and even so Swmbo declared the newly commissioned shower via combi boiler to be the best in years. Our prior showers have been electric and another had poor pressure with a header tank in the attic to give some oomph to the hot water tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Remember the functions of sealing the pipe and making it watertight, and of clamping it so it does not pull out, are separate functions. As long as you don't tear or otherwise damage the pipe seals, you can re use the fittings. A lot of boundary boxes use a push fit fitting. Don't bank on being able to uncouple that and re make it. Best fit a long enough length out of the boundary box for the final arangement, even if it is too long for the temporary setup. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted December 31, 2018 Author Share Posted December 31, 2018 18 hours ago, ProDave said: A lot of boundary boxes use a push fit fitting. Don't bank on being able to uncouple that and re make it. Best fit a long enough length out of the boundary box for the final arrangement, even if it is too long for the temporary setup. Ah this could be a significant gotcha next year when the main house water supply goes live, thanks for the warning. I will have a look and take a photo of the meter coupling. Unfortunately the stand pipe is connected via a 2m section of pipe, it will need 5m to run from the boundary meter up to FFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Just now, epsilonGreedy said: Ah this could be a significant gotcha next year when the main house water supply goes live, thanks for the warning. I will have a look and take a photo of the meter coupling. Unfortunately the stand pipe is connected via a 2m section of pipe, it will need 5m to run from the boundary meter up to FFL. Just leave the 2M bit from the boundary box alone, and couple on whatever you need to reach the house with a straight coupler. I provisioned for all eventualities right from the start. From the water company's boundary box it comes out and then into three of my own boundary boxes. One for the site standpipe (still there for a hose for car washing) one for the static caravan (remaining as a workshop and studio) and one to feed water to the house. This gives a local underground stopcock for each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted December 31, 2018 Author Share Posted December 31, 2018 On 30/12/2018 at 16:35, Russell griffiths said: Cut pipe clean and square remember to install a pipe stiffener, in every end of pipe. I have ratchet MDPE pipe cutters, the sharpness of the blade is almost evil and yes I have a bag of pipe inserts. On 30/12/2018 at 16:35, Russell griffiths said: Mark pipe with a pen at insertion depth to ensure correct insertion lubricate O ring, lubricate pipe end Like the pen mark suggestion, I would not have though of that. I assume branded Polypipe lubricant as supplied for brown 110mm underground drainage pipes is chemically safe when applied to MDPE pipe plastic? Edit: I noticed the following advice in a manufacturer's doc Quote Note: For diameters 40mm and above, chamfering and lubrication of the pipe will ease insertion (use silicon lubricant)... Tighten nut firmly: Hand tight on pipe 20mm (½”) – 32mm (1”), on pipe 40mm (1 ¼”) and above use a Plasson wrench. Page 58: http://www.plasson.co.uk/images/Fittings/plassonuk/cms/Fittings and Accessories for PE Pipe 2014 Price Catalogue.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 Any WRAS approved pipe lube works OK. Most are just a water-soluble gel that contains glycerin and thickened with methyl cellulose (pretty much identical in composition to KY Jelly...). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted December 31, 2018 Author Share Posted December 31, 2018 4 hours ago, ProDave said: Just leave the 2M bit from the boundary box alone, and couple on whatever you need to reach the house with a straight coupler. That would save a day or two of manual digging through the boundary hedge base back out to the road verge. Maybe I was too focused on not having any connector between the boundary meter and internal stopcock. The water pressure is good in the area so I hope the throttling caused by the connector pipe inserts will not adversely affect domestic water delivery which will probably include a combi boiler for hot water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 1 minute ago, epsilonGreedy said: I hope the throttling caused by the connector pipe inserts will not adversely affect domestic water delivery I have a 25mm pipe with inserts at various places and get 6bar and oodles of flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 22 minutes ago, joe90 said: I have a 25mm pipe with inserts at various places and get 6bar and oodles of flow. Yep - you’ll get near on 40 litres a minute on a 40m pipe at 6 bar. 25 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: The water pressure is good in the area so I hope the throttling caused by the connector pipe inserts will not adversely affect domestic water delivery which will probably include a combi boiler for hot water. Your issue will be the boiler flow - you’ll need to drop the pressure to 3 bar, but at 10m of copper 22mm, 3 bar will still be flowing 38 litres per minute. To put out this into context, the top of the range Worcester 550CDi High Flow has a maximum DHW flow of 27 litres per minute ... and it’s change of £2,500..... You won’t have an issue with flow if you have 3 bar of pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted December 31, 2018 Author Share Posted December 31, 2018 (edited) Follow up: Today was a rare day when actual progress exceeded plan. I had intended to disconnect the builder's supply standpipe, then use one of my fancy Plasson connectors to route mains water through 24m of blue MDPE already laid in the footing trenches and then reinstate the standpipe alongside the static caravan. Then I noticed the copper to MDPE standpipe connector looked similar in size to the copper plumbing bits below the caravan where currently a garden hose was rammed in place and clamped on with a jubilee clip. Net result is the garden hose has been retired along with associated health risks and proper blue MDPE pipe is connected direct to the static. The MDPE pipe Plasson connectors are pretty fool proof though it is easy to think the pipe is fully home when a bit more force and rotation of the pipe results in another clunk and the pipe moving a further 1cm into the connector. Re. my opening question, yes the internal mechanism does permit multiple connection attempts so no downside to having a trial run on a test section of pipe. I found it useful having a bucket of clean water next to the jointing operation to rinse off the components before assembly, I also found the screw on clamping collars are nice and chunky hence easy to torque up with direct hand power. Edited December 31, 2018 by epsilonGreedy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell griffiths Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 Remember to insulate under the static very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 7 minutes ago, Russell griffiths said: Remember to insulate under the static very well. And keep an eye on it. We had one freeze up during the "beast from the East" I spent half an hour under the 'van in a blizard thawing it with a hairdryer before it damaged anything. That was caused where mice had stripped about 12 inches of the insulation off one bit of pipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 One nice thing about MDPE is that it's rare to get any damage from freezing. On the farm we had decades old alkathene pipe (same stuff as MDPE, just the 1950's trade name for it) running to troughs. This would freeze in cold weather, but I can only once recall any damage, and that was just a loose fitting blowing off from the expansion. One of our outside taps has a length of uninsulated MDPE running up the post to the tap, and that's frozen a good few times now, but as we never want to use that tap in cold weather I can't be bothered to do anything about it, as no harm seems to be done by just letting it freeze. Be nice to find some type of pipe insulation that mice don't like chewing, though. I've noticed that they seem especially fond of any black neoprene foam type insulation for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tosh Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Just getting to the point where we will be having our connection to Welsh Water.......... @ProDave I like the idea of splitting the supply across site as we have a holiday let, workshops all going in different directions to the supply that will feed the house and it would save supply going to house and then back again along virtually the same route. How did you actually break out from the single supply from meter to your 3 x boxes i.e what connectors etc? Tks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Just standard mdpe tee connections and then into 3 of my own boundary boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tosh Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 ah right of course, so just put them all in line, downstream of each other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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