New Build in Botus

[NSS]

Okay, but even if that were to happen, and to my knowledge it hasn't yet, assuming you generate circa 6.2MW per annum, the 50% export at 4.5p/kWh would only earn you about £140 rather than £1,000.

[Jeremy Harris]

9 minutes ago, NSS said:

Okay, but even if that were to happen, and to my knowledge it hasn't yet, assuming you generate circa 6.2MW per annum, the 50% export at 4.5p/kWh would only earn you about £140 rather than £1,000.

 

Agreed, but the bottom line is that we generate a great deal more than we use over the course of a year, so no matter what, we are still a net energy contributor, rather than a net demand.  As it happens, we will soon have a battery storage system, so more of our excess generation will be used, reducing our demand on the grid still further.

[ProDave]

30 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

Not sure that's true, as the plan is to pay for export at the mean wholesale price, I believe.  Certainly that was being discussed a couple of months ago, though as usual it seems that our government is way behind the curve.

 

We had a system in place like this for microgeneration before the FiT was introduced, so that microgenerators could be paid for their contribution to the grid at a fair price.  The fair price was around the mean daytime wholesale price, which today would be around 4.5p/kWh, which is what we get paid for export.

So far since I installed mine, I have exported 28KWh.  I doubt I will be signing up for this scheme even if it ever happens.

[SteamyTea]

Battery storage is an interesting idea.

While it is really way to expensive to go truly off grid, a small bit of storage, say 1 to 1.5 kWh, may be useful for time shifting.

I use about 1 kWh/day, during the day (i.e. not night rate).

That now costs 22p/kWh (before taxes).

So say I use 400 kWh a year, that is £88/year, but it would cost half that to charge them.

Not sure how much storage I could get for £50 a year, or £100 for that matter if I used PV to charge them.

It should be possible to calculate the sweet spot, but I suspect that is sometime in the future.

Edited May 10, 2019 by SteamyTea

[NSS]

4 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

Agreed, but the bottom line is that we generate a great deal more than we use over the course of a year, so no matter what, we are still a net energy contributor, rather than a net demand.  As it happens, we will soon have a battery storage system, so more of our excess generation will be used, reducing our demand on the grid still further.

But also reducing the amount you export to the grid. I'm not knocking it Jeremy, merely pointing out that even in a home as well insulated as yours, with all the technology you've incorporated, with your own borehole water supply, and 6.25kW of solar panels (imsmc) on the roof, it would be virtually impossible to achieve a net minus energy cost if starting again today.

[Jeremy Harris]

4 minutes ago, NSS said:

But also reducing the amount you export to the grid. I'm not knocking it Jeremy, merely pointing out that even in a home as well insulated as yours, with all the technology you've incorporated, with your own borehole water supply, and 6.25kW of solar panels (imsmc) on the roof, it would be virtually impossible to achieve a net minus energy cost if starting again today.

 

If starting again today then I still think that we could get the cost to be neutral, as well as the environmental impact.  Adding battery storage now will be more costly than if we'd added it as a part of the build, I think, but even so a modest investment seems likely to reduce our energy import cost, and make better use of our excess export.  Our initial objective is to remove our peak rate grid import, which will both reduce our bill and give an environmental benefit, as it's better to only use off peak electricity, if possible.  I believe that we may be able to be effectively off-grid for around 8 months of the year, with a bit of careful optimisation.

[SteamyTea]

6 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

as it's better to only use off peak electricity

This may be coming to an end as we are not yet replacing our nuclear generation, nor adding enough wind to the grid.  Couple that with the increase in EVs, which will predominately be charged at night, we will be burning more gas.

Probably why my night rate is half the day rate, a few years back it was a third.

[NSS]

6 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

If starting again today then I still think that we could get the cost to be neutral, as well as the environmental impact.  Adding battery storage now will be more costly than if we'd added it as a part of the build, I think, but even so a modest investment seems likely to reduce our energy import cost, and make better use of our excess export.  Our initial objective is to remove our peak rate grid import, which will both reduce our bill and give an environmental benefit, as it's better to only use off peak electricity, if possible.  I believe that we may be able to be effectively off-grid for around 8 months of the year, with a bit of careful optimisation.

Fair play. Interestingly, I had a conversation with our PV and ASHP installers yesterday (we purchased all the kit ourselves but had them install/commission it) and they said that PV installs have (surprisingly) actually picked up considerably since the FiT scheme ceased. They also said that Tesla have turned the taps on for Powerwall supplies into the UK, but that there's still no economic case for installing them, only an ecological one, and that prices have actually risen significantly (partly due to exchange rates) rather than showing any sign of falling.

[Jeremy Harris]

Good point about the Tesla PW2, as it's now looking a bit pricey when compared to the competition, although even with the lower prices of some of the competing systems it's still a bit marginal in terms of the cost benefit.  If electricity prices rise, as I believe they will once we have widespread "smart" metering, then battery storage may start too look better, but right now it's very marginal, and highly dependent on the nature of the specific circumstances as to whether it makes sense economically.

[Ed Davies]

11 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

While it is really way to expensive to go truly off grid, a small bit of storage, say 1 to 1.5 kWh, may be useful for time shifting.

 

Steamy's talking about his specific case here and what he says is generally true but doesn't apply to sites where the high cost of a grid connection is reflected in the price. In other words, starting completely from scratch you need to include the extra cost of buying a site with a relatively cheap grid connection in the balance against the cost of batteries, etc, needed for off-grid.

[jack]

12 hours ago, NSS said:

 that prices have actually risen significantly (partly due to exchange rates) rather than showing any sign of falling.

 

I was recently told by a Powerwall installer that, after Elon got kicked off the board following a couple of silly tweets, there was a change of policy. Before, the aim was market share growth, even if it meant little or no profit. The new policy is to increase profits.

[SteamyTea]

2 hours ago, Ed Davies said:

Steamy's talking about his specific case here

Yes, grid power is really cheap, really.

 

2 hours ago, Ed Davies said:

extra cost of buying a site with a relatively cheap grid connection in the balance against the cost of batteries, etc, needed for off-grid.

A generator is cheap, reliable and predictable.

 

Against what the Green Party and Friends of the Earth think, being off grid is not cheap or easy.  And that is before any environmental costs are taken into account.

[Ferdinand]

19 hours ago, JSHarris said:

Not too hard to get energy bills down to zero.  We're running at around minus £500 a year for all bills except Council Tax and insurance. 

 

Annual house running cost, including Council Tax, insurance, water, sewage treatment, electricity, window cleaning and garden maintenance comes to about £1,600, most of that being Council Tax (Council Tax is current about £2100 here).  That includes most of the "fuel" for my car, too.

 

 

 

Interesting breakdown.

 

Mine (2010 building regs build, 200 sqm), also with 2 of us, is roughly:

 

£1000 for gas and elec. give or take.

£300 water/sewerage.

£1950 Council tax (band D, and we have probably got off lightly)

-£-600 for solar array FIT.

 

But I only invested £250k + £11k for the solar in it ?, and not 3 years of my life.

 

It will not be worth upgrading majorly fabric-wise until it needs a full do-over, which will be another 25 years imo. I might be able to tweak another £100-£200 from the solar if I move some of it. ASHP could be done, as could batteries, but the current HE boiler still has 7-10 years in it.

 

Ferdinand

 

[SteamyTea]

My breakdown is:

Council Tax £1210

Water and Sewage £600 (ish)

Power £600 (ish)

 

So that works out at £48.50/m²

 

@Ferdinand is £13.25/m²

 

Must be because I live in one of the poorest parts of Europe.

[Ferdinand]

4 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

My breakdown is:

Council Tax £1210

Water and Sewage £600 (ish)

Power £600 (ish)

 

So that works out at £48.50/m^2

 

@Ferdinand is £13.25/m²

 

Must be because I live in one of the poorest parts of Europe.

 

That's interesting. Have you included your single person 25% discount?

 

The closest in size I have to yours is a 50sqm small 1850 detached, where all the rooms have 3 outside walls.

 

That gives a per sqm figure of about £40 or £60 depending if you include the sun lounge which added 50%. That is after energy bills have been halved since 2010.

 

On Council Tax, we tend to be one of the highest. On median income I think we tend to be in the lowest quartile.

 

The minimum wage has I think made a difference here, as probably has the fairly extensive light rail system. The latter may be commuters skewing the averages rather than older local elements doing better.

 

F

Edited May 11, 2019 by Ferdinand

[SteamyTea]

3 hours ago, Ferdinand said:

That's interesting. Have you included your single person 25% discount?

No, but it is an irrelevance really.

Council tax should be based on living accommodation in my opinion.  It is a complete nonsense that you can have two very similar properties, but in different areas of the same town, and they have different bandings.

[newhome]

27 minutes ago, SteamyTea said:

It is a complete nonsense that you can have two very similar properties, but in different areas of the same town, and they have different bandings.

 

The whole thing is nonsense anyway. Based on a valuation from a few decades ago. 

[Ferdinand]

6 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

No, but it is an irrelevance really.

Council tax should be based on living accommodation in my opinion.  It is a complete nonsense that you can have two very similar properties, but in different areas of the same town, and they have different bandings.

 

I was checking the other way ... comparing like with like in the numbers ? . Agree it is an irrelevance to the comparison if they are on the  same basis.

 

How would you do it then? GIA? Qty of bedrooms? 

 

I would I think start with proper revaluations under the current system, because any of the others would be more intrusive and resource intensive. To be fair,  as with the Business Rates revaluation you would be able to hear the squealing on Rockall.

 

Though in theory the GIA is already available from EPC numbers, BHers have in the passed expressed a modest skepticism about such numbers. Perhaps that would be the place to start, with some sort of Appeals process.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by Ferdinand

[SteamyTea]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

How would you do it then? GIA? Qty of bedrooms? 

Theme for another thread. But maybe just on square metreage, unless they want to bring back community charge, which I liked.

[joe90]

16 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

unless they want to bring back community charge, which I liked.

 

And me, why should I pay more tax because I have invested my money in a nice property, and one that’s kind to the planet? Also tax all earners, not the property owner, that should stop scrounges living for free in other peoples houses!

Edited May 12, 2019 by joe90

[SteamyTea]

8 hours ago, joe90 said:

Also tax all earners, not the property owner

There is a quirk in the system that students are exempt from property taxes, unless they have an unemployable lodger, then the student has to pay all the taxes on their property. Backdated 2 and a half years too, in one hit.

Try doing that on a student loan.

Edited May 13, 2019 by SteamyTea