Jeremy Harris Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 My web search fu is failing me, so I'm asking the collective hive mind here in the hope that someone may know of an off the shelf solution. We have a few light only switched 3 A sockets, and when planning their locations I made a cock up, and have found that we'd really like another switched outlet for a light on the other side of the room. We have a 13 A outlet where we'd like the remote switched light. So, what what we are looking for is a remote switch, that's triggered by power being applied to an outlet, that capable of switching another outlet that's maybe 4m away. The idea is that by flicking one side of a 2 gang switch, we can turn on all the incidental lights in the room. Changing the switch, or the wiring, isn't really an option, so ideally I'm looking for something, that when mains is applied, will switch on an outlet that's plugged in to a 3 A outlet. Not fussed if it uses wireless or power line signalling. I could make something to do this easily enough, but would rather buy a standard solution if I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 (edited) I'm a bit lost as to what you want tbh (don't worry it's me not you I'm sure). Random thoughts... Quinetic? You could I'm sure feed one receiver from another... ...The 13A plug in receiver should work off a 3A socket just the same...take the guts out and shove in the 3A outlet? https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/QUA313.html? Edited November 24, 2018 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 (edited) Hang on, 3A switched outlets...not 5A? Are the "few" "3A" switched sockets on the same radial? Chuck a receiver at the front end and leave them all switched on. Then change the 13A socket (2G?) the other side of the room to a dual or dual plus one box, another receiver and 3A outlet. Edited November 24, 2018 by Onoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Davies Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Indeed, while @Onoff was posting I was failing at web search for 3 A outlets. What are they? But when you say these outlets are switched, do you mean with a switch on the outlet (as 13A outlets usually have) or switched from a wall switch like most lighting circuits? I think the second but I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 Sorry, my error, they are 2 A outlets, not 3 A, these ones, switched by wall light switches, that control incidental lights: What I'm after is a transmitter that can detect power at one of these outlets and turn on a switch/receiver that's plugged in to a standard 13 A outlet. My error was in not realising that we'd want an incidental light on the other side of the room from where I'd fitted the 2 A outlets. At present there is a 2 gang light switch in the room, one gang two way switches (with another single light switch the other side of the room) three wall uplighters, the other gang switches the 2 A outlets. The idea was to be able to switch all the incidental lighting on and off from the wall, without having to go around switching them on or off individually. However, we've found that we quite like having a small light on in one corner, opposite the wall with the 2 A outlets on, but which has a 13 A double gang outlet. If push comes to shove I can make something up that will do the job, but I'd rather have an off-the-shelf solution if there is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 What make are the light switches..?? Quinetic switches now come as a slot in for the MK grid system. You could change to using a quinetic for the 2A from its feed and put one of these in the socket paired to the same switch ..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onoff Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Click Smart kit? https://www.scolmore.com/products/inels/ Transmitter sited at / operated by existing 2G switch. Receiver sited at 13A socket feeding another 2A socket. Not cheap though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Does Z-wave not offer something. Give them a ring maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, PeterW said: What make are the light switches..?? Quinetic switches now come as a slot in for the MK grid system. You could change to using a quinetic for the 2A from its feed and put one of these in the socket paired to the same switch ..?? The switches are all white MK Logic, but swapping to a Quinetic switch wouldn't be that easy, because one gang of the current two gang switch is two-way, with a single gang switch at the other door into the room. This turns on the uplighters in the room. I've sketched out a few combinations of using Quinetic switches, but all would need a hole hacking in the wall to bury a receiver in to switch the uplighters and retain the two way switching. The existing switch back boxes are screwed to 2 x 4 noggins in the wall, and project slightly into the plasterboard, so not easy to just remove the boxes and try to tuck a receiver in behind, I'd need to cut a hole in the wall right next to the switch, which I'd rather not do unless there's no other way. 14 minutes ago, Onoff said: Click Smart kit? https://www.scolmore.com/products/inels/ Transmitter sited at / operated by existing 2G switch. Receiver sited at 13A socket feeding another 2A socket. Not cheap though! Might work, but needs an additional switch, and ideally I'd like to just be able to use the existing power supplied to an unused 2 A outlet on the other side of the room as the trigger to turn on something like the plug-in remote switch that @PeterW linked to. 8 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Does Z-wave not offer something. Give them a ring maybe? Not sure, I'll have a look around and see if they do. One option is to just buy a remote switched socket and handheld remote control (not a Quinetic one, as I'd need to hack it) and then make up a small plug-in box with a pulsed relay to simulate the remote push button. It would need a power supply with a big reservoir capacitor, so that it could sense the mains going off on the outlet and have enough stored energy to trigger the remote to "off", but it should be doable. Years ago I decoded the Byron/Home Easy 32 bit protocol and got a small microcontroller reliably switching Home Easy receivers, and I still have a few of those around, so I could knock up something to do the job. It seems odd that there isn't an off-the-shelf unit that works as a wireless extender from one outlet to another, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 @JSHarris have you seen the MK grid quinetic switches ..? Would mean your uplighters went on a standard switch - or two way - but the quinetic grid switch would do the other sockets and the remote. That would need you to find the end of the live to the 2A feeds though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 It’s the ( lack of ) constant 240v at the 2-amp outlet that’s the bugbear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Tbh this may be one where you just walk over to the table lamp and switch it on with, say, your hand 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 What about a WiFi enabled light bulb. You can use your phone /tablet to turn it on or one of the Google home/alexa type units. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadnaught Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) Could you achieve your aim with Apple Homekit triggers (and I assume with any of the other home-automation systems, such as Alexa and Google Home, but I do not know about those). You could use the combination of a light detector and smart socket for the lamp. The Homekit rule would be: if light is detected in the room and it is not daytime (daylight) then turn on the smart socket. I know you don't have Apple gear (other than SWMBOs iPad) so I know this would not be a solution for you but it might prompt some related ideas. Edited: not sure how the lamp would turn itself off, hmm. Edited November 25, 2018 by Dreadnaught Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, Dreadnaught said: Edited: not sure how the lamp would turn itself off, hmm. Apple have brought out the iHammer 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 Just now, PeterW said: @JSHarris have you seen the MK grid quinetic switches ..? Would mean your uplighters went on a standard switch - or two way - but the quinetic grid switch would do the other sockets and the remote. That would need you to find the end of the live to the 2A feeds though. Yes, I've looked at them, but it would still mean hacking another hole in the wall. Currently we have a double gang switch by the door from the hall into the living room, with one gang switching the feed to three uplighters. At the other end of the living room, by the door that leads to my wife's study, there is a single gang switch that is the other half of the two way switching for the uplighters. The other half of the double gang switch only feeds the 2 A outlets. The feed for those comes from the switch (the house is all wired loop in switch throughout), so getting access to the cable that feeds both the 2 A outlets and the uplighters is reasonably easy, as the feeds are in the deep double gang back box, all hooked up with wagos. 6 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: It’s the ( lack of ) constant 240v at the 2-amp outlet that’s the bugbear. 5 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Tbh this may be one where you just walk over to the table lamp and switch it on with, say, your hand I can get around the lack of constant power by two methods. There's a spare 13 A outlet on the ring final next to one of the unused 2 A outlets, so I could power a transmitter from that and then sense power on the 2 A outlet. If going for a custom solution then I could store enough energy to send an "off" transmission using a modest reservoir capacitor. I've room to hide a remote transmitter box, as the unused 2 A outlet is behind a sofa. 4 minutes ago, Declan52 said: What about a WiFi enabled light bulb. You can use your phone /tablet to turn it on or one of the Google home/alexa type units. That would work, but I have a problem in general with the lack of privacy that's inherent in everything like this. Google and Amazon both have a pretty grim track record when it comes to invasion of personal privacy, something I have a personal issue with (and yes, I may well be overly-obsessed about personal privacy!). 4 minutes ago, Dreadnaught said: Could you achieve your aim with Apple Homekit triggers (and I assume with any of the other home-automation systems, such as Alexa and Google Home, but I do not know about those). You could use the combination of a light detector and smart socket for the lamp. The Homekit rule would be: if light is detected in the room and it is not daytime (daylight) then turn on the smart socket. I know you don't have Apple gear (other than SWMBOs iPad) so I know this would not be a solution for you but it might prompt some related ideas. Thanks for the thought, I shall go looking around to see if there's anything related that may do the job. One problem I've had is in finding the most relevant search terms - there are so many remote switching systems that it's really hard to refine results down to just what I want, without missing something obvious that may do the job. As a final thought, I have looked at making a simple light-operated switch, or adapting an off-the-shelf one. The light I want to switch on is sat on top of a bookshelf (not relevant, but it's a big lump of rocksalt from a Polish salt mine, with an LED light fitted inside it). I think I might be able to adapt a rate-of-change-of-light switch (perhaps a modified PIR sensor one) with a discreet tube over the sensor, aimed at one of the other incidental lights. With luck I may be able to get that to reliably sense when one of the other lights goes on or off and use that as the switching method. Might not quite be off-the-shelf, but could be pretty close to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 @JSHarris we also have switched lighting sockets in our house (ours are 5 amp) and we have two places where we wished we had installed them so if you do find an off the shelf solution my wife will be very gratefull ?. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 I was thinking that using Sonoff units would work as they can create a lab IFTTT mesh that would trigger others in the group ..? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Just now, PeterW said: I was thinking that using Sonoff units would work as they can create a lab IFTTT mesh that would trigger others in the group ..? as a practising Luddite I have no idea what your talking about ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 IFTTT - if this then that..! Basically they are simple WiFi switches that can work with either the app or by some other means. Temperature switch is one, they can turn something on or off etc but also make another unit do something else too .. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Declan52 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Having a look at the black Friday deals and they have these. https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B07GTF2DN1/ref=gbmg_mob_m-3_2232_40ab0669?smid=A3PYE5NTYAN1NX&dealid=40ab0669&pf_rd_p=7547afa5-c66f-4143-863e-970185732232&pf_rd_s=mobile-hybrid-3&pf_rd_t=30901&pf_rd_i=14235985031&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=S84RNJD8HVSV8QYS74YN&th=1&psc=1 Works with the app on a phone or tablet if you don't want the alexa Google home type unit. Also ifttt if you want to use that method. At £10 a bulb they aren't cheap though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Davies Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 But, he just wants to switch a light off. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 Nice idea, @Declan52, but unfortunately the light I need to switch takes a slim E14 COB type LED. 5 minutes ago, Ed Davies said: But, he just wants to switch a light off. ? Exactly! Some sort of switch that just detects when another circuit is powered, or a light comes on, and remotely turns another light on (and off) is all I need. I'm coming around to the conclusion that I'm going to have to make a custom unit to do this, that will just plug in to a spare 2 A outlet and transmit Byron/Home Easy on and off codes as it's powered on or off. Not too hard to do, just that I'd hoped there may be something off the shelf that would do this. I have some spare Home Easy switches and receivers, so can take a switch apart and mimic the contacts with a tiny relay, easily enough, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey_1980 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Could you not just pop a motion sensor bulb in there, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B22-E27-E14-5W-220V-18-LED-Motion-Control-PIR-Sensor-Light-Lamp-Bulb-Cool-Warm-/312012637265 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 11 minutes ago, Mikey_1980 said: Could you not just pop a motion sensor bulb in there, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B22-E27-E14-5W-220V-18-LED-Motion-Control-PIR-Sensor-Light-Lamp-Bulb-Cool-Warm-/312012637265 Unfortunately not, as the lamp is fitted in a hole bored inside a block (probably a single large crystal) of rock salt. Also, as it's in the living room, the chances are there may well not be enough motion to keep a motion-sensing light on. The last office I worked in had motion sensing light switches, designed to save energy by turning unused lights off. When working late without may people around you had to remember to wave your arms in the air every five minutes or so, or else you'd be plunged into darkness... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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