Choice of treatment plants

[Crofter]

By the way, another treatment option to throw into the mix is the Puraflo. This operates quite differently from a treatment plant as it is a more passive aeration process. You have a conventional ST then the Puraflo is downstream. It is basically a big box full of peat, where the effluent trickles through and is treated by the organisms growing within. From there, you have various discharge options- a conventional soakaway would count as tertiary treatment as so is not really necessary; I went for a partial (reduced size ) soakaway.

I opted for this system for two reasons:
1- very slow draining soil ruled out a conventional system, and the soakaway area required even for a treatment plant would have been impractical.
2 - potential holiday usage of the new build meant that there were going to be problems with usage and occupancy rates. Puraflo told me their product is self regulating and simply adjusts to the demand placed on it.

[ProDave]

To add to Crofter's post above, at the end of the day it is not YOUR choice, but what building control will accept.

 

We tried the Puraflow system as it seemed to tick all the boxes but for some reason (they didn't say) our building control rejected it.
 

[Crofter]

And, in case things were looking too easy, you also have to get it past SEPA/EA as well!

[pauldoc]

14 minutes ago, Crofter said:

And, in case things were looking too easy, you also have to get it past SEPA/EA as well!

I spoke to the EA and am ok as far as they are concerned.....i made sure they sent an email confirming this!

They said as I already discharge to a septic tank and am upgrading to a treatment plant it is not a problem

[Leaway]

Any one heard or used Bio Rock ? views versus Bio Pure looking to choose treatment plant for self build

 

http://www.biorock.co.uk

[Stones]

I had one in my last house.  All I'll say is NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, DON'T DO IT!

I did a user review back on ebuild.  I'm not repeating everything here but feel free to have a look for it. As you've probably guessed, not a great experience with it.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Stones

[PeterW]

4 minutes ago, Stones said:

I had one in my last house.  All I'll say is NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, DON'T DO IT!

I did a user review back on ebuild.  I'm not repeating everything here but feel free to have a look for it. As you've probably guessed, not a great experience with it.

 

And here it is in all its (smelly) glory ...

 

http://www.ebuild.co.uk/topic/13972-user-review-of-biorock-sewage-treatment-system/

[mafaldina]

I looked at them, dubious on several counts: replacing medium, guarantee only valid if they install and maintain (yearly, even though blurb says not needed),; very (too) deep for infiltratration (I don't have ditch/watercourse). 

 

[Leaway]

Cheers guys Bio pure it is then 

 

[ProDave]

2 hours ago, Leaway said:

Cheers guys Bio pure it is then 

 

Have a look at the Conder (the one I have) and the Vortex as well.
 

[Stones]

Decision made and unit ordered.

 

I couldn't get the Conder delivered up here for anything approaching a reasonable price so the only contenders in the end were the Biopure and Vortex.  The Biopure, as offered on Ebay, did at first seem a much better deal, but that particular model didn't come with the built in housing / tray for the air pump - something to be aware of if you are considering purchasing from Ebay - phone the company to make sure you are getting the model / version you want. 

 

Once I had a price with the integral housing included, these really wasn't anything in it price wise between the two (delivered price). 

 

As remotely housing the air pump was something that I wanted to avoid, the Biopure won over the Vortex.

[Stones]

Delivered today on a pallet.  A few pictures for anyone interested:

 

 

Lid and pump housing 

 

 

Internal shots

 

 

 

Housing fitted

 

 

 

[Gone West]

That's amazingly similar to my WPL Diamond DMS2 except mine doesn't have an integrated pump housing. Does that mean the housing has to be removed to have the tank emptied?

[ProDave]

I know Jason's choice was limited by transport costs, but seeing that makes me glad I opted for the Conder.

 

I am sure the Biopure will be fine in operation but disadvantages over the Conder as I see it:

 

No legs, so you have to hold the Biopure upright while back filling the hole. (conder has legs)

 

I don't see any lifting eyes to lift it and hold it (Conder has 4 lifting eyes)

 

It looks like you have to lift the pump unit out to empty the tank (Conder has separate access point for emptying)

 

 

[Stones]

On 9/8/2016 at 08:39, PeterStarck said:

That's amazingly similar to my WPL Diamond DMS2 except mine doesn't have an integrated pump housing. Does that mean the housing has to be removed to have the tank emptied?

 

Yes, the housing sits in the neck of the unit , but would have to be lifted out for emptying.  Given the de-sludge and maintenance  requirements, I'm not too worried about this, and am willing to accept this niggle to avoid having to remotely house the pump.  As Dave suggests, a separate access point for emptying would have been good.  You don't have to have the pump housing - they supply with or without.

 

On 9/8/2016 at 08:54, ProDave said:

I know Jason's choice was limited by transport costs, but seeing that makes me glad I opted for the Conder.

 

I am sure the Biopure will be fine in operation but disadvantages over the Conder as I see it:

No legs, so you have to hold the Biopure upright while back filling the hole. (conder has legs)

I don't see any lifting eyes to lift it and hold it (Conder has 4 lifting eyes)

It looks like you have to lift the pump unit out to empty the tank (Conder has separate access point for emptying)

 

Without legs, installation becomes a little more difficult, i.e. requires a machine and more than one man, but for me this isn't an issue as the builders will be installing and have all the kit required.  If you were doing it yourself, I agree the lack of legs would be a short term disadvantage.

 

It does have two lifting eyes, both of which I've managed to exclude from the photographs!

 

Interestingly, the delivery driver (local palletways agent) commented that he had delivered a number of these plants out to Westray (an hour and a half ferry trip north from mainland Orkney).  As you say Dave, delivery costs certainly played a part in my decision and clearly has in the case of others as well.  

[ProDave]

Yes cost is a big issue. For the same reason, there are now 5 self builds in progress within 2 miles of me, and 4 of them are using Rationel windows, no doubt because they are very keenly priced. The 5th one is being build by someone with seemingly bottomless pockets, nothing he does is to save money.

 

Once installed your unit will perform well I have no doubt about that. The no legs thing would have been a PITA for my self install. Once we had lowered the unit into the ground it then took us the rest of that day, and then most of the following day to mix, barrow and pour concrete. My aged digger with it's (slightly) leaking hydraulics would not have held it in position that long so we would have needed to find some other way to prop it.

 

P.S I have done the ferry ride to Westray. We did a little tour of the islands, fliying to Papa westray, then to Westray, and ferry back, just so we could fly on the worlds shortest scheduled air service from Papa Westray to Westray, takes about 2 minutes in the air.

 

[Gone West]

21 hours ago, ProDave said:

 

Once installed your unit will perform well I have no doubt about that. The no legs thing would have been a PITA for my self install. Once we had lowered the unit into the ground it then took us the rest of that day, and then most of the following day to mix, barrow and pour concrete. My aged digger with it's (slightly) leaking hydraulics would not have held it in position that long so we would have needed to find some other way to prop it.

 

I found not having legs on it an advantage because with one pivot point it was easy to level and then wedge in place. It doesn't need to be backfilled with concrete, only type 1 because it is chained down to four horizontal angle irons banged into the side of the hole. I did put a layer of dry mix over the top, but then I always tend to over engineer everything.

Edited September 9, 2016 by jack
Combined posts

[Stones]

6 hours ago, ProDave said:

Yes cost is a big issue. For the same reason, there are now 5 self builds in progress within 2 miles of me, and 4 of them are using Rationel windows, no doubt because they are very keenly priced. The 5th one is being build by someone with seemingly bottomless pockets, nothing he does is to save money.

 

Once installed your unit will perform well I have no doubt about that. The no legs thing would have been a PITA for my self install. Once we had lowered the unit into the ground it then took us the rest of that day, and then most of the following day to mix, barrow and pour concrete. My aged digger with it's (slightly) leaking hydraulics would not have held it in position that long so we would have needed to find some other way to prop it.

 

P.S I have done the ferry ride to Westray. We did a little tour of the islands, fliying to Papa westray, then to Westray, and ferry back, just so we could fly on the worlds shortest scheduled air service from Papa Westray to Westray, takes about 2 minutes in the air.

 

 

I was out in Westray for the day just over a week ago.  Nice place to visit and had a pleasant enough journey, not sure I would be so keen on the ferry ride in winter though!

 

1 hour ago, PeterStarck said:

I found not having legs on it an advantage because with one pivot point it was easy to level and then wedge in place. It doesn't need to be backfilled with concrete, only type 1 because it is chained down to four horizontal angle irons banged into the side of the hole. I did put a layer of dry mix over the top, but then I always tend to over engineer everything.

 

The Biopure has two anchor options if required, anchor chains as you describe, or back fill around the base with concrete - there are a number of nibs sticking out from the unit near the base which would lock it into any concrete.  We plan to go with the concrete option.

[ProDave]

Mine is anchored with about 6 tons of concrete. We have a seasonally high water table here, and I would not be the one volunteering to climb down into a deep soggy hole to bang some angle iron stakes into the side while hoping it doesn't  collapse while I am down there.
 

[Gone West]

10 hours ago, ProDave said:

Mine is anchored with about 6 tons of concrete. We have a seasonally high water table here, and I would not be the one volunteering to climb down into a deep soggy hole to bang some angle iron stakes into the side while hoping it doesn't  collapse while I am down there.
 

 

Yes it was interesting, the water table varies a great deal around here as well.

 

[ProDave]

Not just "interesting" but bloody dangerous if you ask me.  With the ground we have, I suspect it would be more likely to cave in, and in any case there are so many rocks and stones in the ground the chances of driving the angle iron in that fare would be very slim.
 

[Stones]

Agreed, I don't think I'd be that keen to do what you did Peter.  Our ground is likewise full of broken rock which would hamper the angle iron anchor installation.  For our site, concrete is the easiest solution.

[Gone West]

11 hours ago, ProDave said:

Not just "interesting" but bloody dangerous if you ask me.  With the ground we have, I suspect it would be more likely to cave in, and in any case there are so many rocks and stones in the ground the chances of driving the angle iron in that fare would be very slim.
 

 

Dangerous, a bit over OTT. The ground conditions are obviously very different, certainly no rocks or stones here.

 

 

[Cpd]

I have to Say, there is nothing dangerous about what Peter is doing if your compitent doing this sort of task / being able to risk assess the situation,  but for someone without this skill set it could be very dangerous. "self build" is such a wide topic we all come with our own specific skill sets and these are generally unknown to other forum members,  (time and posts reveals more) therefore we should be carful not to be to critical of what we do not feel confident in or have experience in ourselves when to others its a daily task. ( yes there are lots of people out there / on here that are misguided or lack understanding and need helpful advise to bring them up to speed in certain areas, i am one.... But lets not be to judgmental . 

[ProDave]

7 minutes ago, Cpd said:

I have to Say, there is nothing dangerous about what Peter is doing if your compitent doing this sort of task / being able to risk assess the situation,  but for someone without this skill set it could be very dangerous. "self build" is such a wide topic we all come with our own specific skill sets and these are generally unknown to other forum members,  (time and posts reveals more) therefore we should be carful not to be to critical of what we do not feel confident in or have experience in ourselves when to others its a daily task. ( yes there are lots of people out there / on here that are misguided or lack understanding and need helpful advise to bring them up to speed in certain areas, i am one.... But lets not be to judgmental .

I think I am qualified to make a judgement.

 

When building the present house, 13 years ago, we paid a man with a JCB to install our septic tank. It was in March, so the water table was quite high.

 

He had dug the hole, and had the tank slung from the bucket of the JCB. He was just starting to lower it into the hole when "plop" a bit of the side of the hole fell in and deposited a big rock right in the middle where the tank was about to be placed.  Without thinking, I put a ladder down the hole, climbed down and moved the rock. Even the JCB driver told me that was a very very silly thing to do, even though it would have meant him untying the tank and using the bucket to remove the rock, then slinging it and trying again.

 

That's why in our ground I would never ever go into a hole that deep again. I would say you have to be pretty damn sure of your ground conditions before you can say it is "safe"