Jml Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 We have planning permission which will run out in a couple of years, to modify our bungalow, adding an extension, removing a summer house (posh name for ugly shed) changing roof from flat to pitched, changing location of front door, moving stairs, adding skylights and new rooms within existing roof space. Due to personal circumstances we are unlikely to be able to start the works in any meaningful way before the planning permission expires. We wish to lock in the planning permission so that we can do it at a later date. The permission is exempt from CIL as under 100 m2. We could of course just reapply later, but if CIL changes or the councils allowable works change, that may not be possible. The extension is to be built over a mains sewer, hence digging foundations to lock in the planning is problematic as a build over agreement would be required and a full building regulations application would need to be submitted, with all the work that entails. Any easy ideas as to how to lock in planning would be much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 As far as I remember any demolition is counted as starting, photograph before and after demolition with a date stamp on the photo, is there something you could demolish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Yes just get a demolition order and do a bit. That should trigger 'start' back at the council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Does some preparitory below ground drainage work count? I know of one case where a foul drain counted in a dispute re. a static caravan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 When you are about to start inform building control, they will then have it documented, they may want to pop out and have a look anyway, ours did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 As I understand it, ' start ' is defined differently in different areas. The most common ' start' I've seen is clear evidence of digging. Breaking ground in other words. How about an exploratory hole to investigate something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 Ask your planners. In our case the first condition on the planning application was we must form the entrance from the road onto the plot. I confirmed with the council that once we had done that, they were satisfied we had "started" the development. It didn't matter to us as the actual house construction started comfortably within the time limit, but I just felt comfortable having that email ftom the planners acknowledging we had actually started as far as they were concerned. Can you do one of the minor things that are included like adding the skylight or moving the front door under a building notice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jml Posted November 22, 2018 Author Share Posted November 22, 2018 1 hour ago, joe90 said: As far as I remember any demolition is counted as starting, photograph before and after demolition with a date stamp on the photo, is there something you could demolish? 1 hour ago, MikeSharp01 said: Yes just get a demolition order and do a bit. That should trigger 'start' back at the council. The only demoltion, other than knocking through when the extension is built, is of the so called summer house, which did appear on the planning permission plans. This is mearly an old large shed with windows and double doors to the front. I would have thought it unlikely that we would need a demolition order to remove it, therfore would that count as demolition for the start of plans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jml Posted November 22, 2018 Author Share Posted November 22, 2018 40 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: Does some preparitory below ground drainage work count? I know of one case where a foul drain counted in a dispute re. a static caravan. We cannot touch the drains until we have a build over agreement and 33 minutes ago, joe90 said: When you are about to start inform building control, they will then have it documented, they may want to pop out and have a look anyway, ours did. full building control agreement, as extension will be over mains sewer. We therefore cannnot use a building notice, and its a lot of work, structural engineers etc. To get building control agreement done, if we can avoid it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jml Posted November 22, 2018 Author Share Posted November 22, 2018 27 minutes ago, recoveringacademic said: As I understand it, ' start ' is defined differently in different areas. The most common ' start' I've seen is clear evidence of digging. Breaking ground in other words. How about an exploratory hole to investigate something? The foundations for the extension wall parallel to the sewer could be dug, but again not sure building control would allow it without a full agreement and build over for the bit which actually crosses the sewer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jml Posted November 22, 2018 Author Share Posted November 22, 2018 18 minutes ago, ProDave said: Ask your planners. In our case the first condition on the planning application was we must form the entrance from the road onto the plot. I confirmed with the council that once we had done that, they were satisfied we had "started" the development. It didn't matter to us as the actual house construction started comfortably within the time limit, but I just felt comfortable having that email ftom the planners acknowledging we had actually started as far as they were concerned. Can you do one of the minor things that are included like adding the skylight or moving the front door under a building notice? Our council planners don’t like talking to mere householders, but may certainly be worth a try. Its an idea re: a minor change, which as you say can be done under a building notice. My concern is that these would be allowable under permitted development and therefore would they actually lock in the planning permission? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 I did not have a demolition order, I was simply replacing a “Nissan” hut with a proper garage and removing the Nissan hut was deemed as starting”. I found building control to be more helpful than planners, ask them round for advise, ours were very helpful (in fact the first thing he said was “ I am not a planner” as the planners round here have a bad reputation ?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 You also need to know where you are wrt pre-start Planning Conditions. You probably do not want to get tangled up in "you have not met your pre-start conditions so you can't have started!" debates. I would ask the Planners. F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jml Posted November 22, 2018 Author Share Posted November 22, 2018 9 minutes ago, joe90 said: I did not have a demolition order, I was simply replacing a “Nissan” hut with a proper garage and removing the Nissan hut was deemed as starting”. I found building control to be more helpful than planners, ask them round for advise, ours were very helpful (in fact the first thing he said was “ I am not a planner” as the planners round here have a bad reputation ?). Many thanks. How were you advised that you had ‘started’? 6 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: You also need to know where you are wrt pre-start Planning Conditions. You probably do not want to get tangled up in "you have not met your pre-start conditions so you can't have started!" debates. No pre start planning conditions, as all materials to match existing, at least that minimises complications! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Square Feet Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 24 minutes ago, joe90 said: I did not have a demolition order, I was simply replacing a “Nissan” hut with a proper garage and removing the Nissan hut was deemed as starting”. I found building control to be more helpful than planners, ask them round for advise, ours were very helpful (in fact the first thing he said was “ I am not a planner” as the planners round here have a bad reputation ?). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissen_hut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe90 Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 16 minutes ago, Jml said: Many thanks. How were you advised that you had ‘started’? B. I. Popped round and saw me taking the hut down and said he would log it as “work started”. The planners tried to stop work as we were fighting for planning permission still, but I informed them I was building the garage under permitted development as the original timber and asbestos bungalow was still there when I started (the planning permission was to replace it with a cottage and a garage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 59 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: You also need to know where you are wrt pre-start Planning Conditions. You probably do not want to get tangled up in "you have not met your pre-start conditions so you can't have started!" debates. I would ask the Planners. F It was this discussion that led me to "started" Once I had satisfied the planners that I had complied with the pre comencement conditions they then advised me so in writing and asked that I notify them when I "started" and so I informed them when I started work on the site entrance and the replied the development had now started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted November 22, 2018 Share Posted November 22, 2018 (edited) What a wind farm does is build the access point and then they apply for a certificate of lawful development so they have something official in writing. CLD are legally binding where as regular letters from planners are just their opinion which can change later. Edited November 22, 2018 by Temp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now