Architect's quote

[Square Feet]

Hi all,

I am looking at a plot in Southern Scotland.  The plot is a 0.15 acre garden plot in a small town.  It has PPP for a new house and there is also an old stone workshop building which could be converted to residential (as long as it is a 'satellite' of the new build and not an address in its own right).  The idea is to convert the workshop into a 'tiny house' for myself and my son (it is 55 sqm, so bigger than our current flat) and live in it while building the new (passive) house.  The PPP that is in place doesn't cover the workshop and is not for the style of new house I wan't to build, so I would need a new application for that, one which will need to address a couple of contraints the LA have placed on the design, ie overlooking issues etc.

 

Funds are extremely tight, so I will need to do as much of the work as humanly possible myself.  My son is 14 now, so he can help a bit too.

 

I would like to build something that sings to my soul, and doesn't just provide us with a roof over our heads.  For that reason I asked an architect to visit the site with me and to quote for the design and planning work.  The quote has come in much higher than I was hoping for, but to be fair this probably reflects the fact that this is in fact for two houses. I wonder if you would mind having a look at the quote for me and telling me what you think?  I would also like to get some idea as to what parts of the work I could do myself (no architecture or engineering background, but I have been involved in numerous renovation projects over the years).

 

Works: Proposed New House and renovation of workshop
Fees: £ 7,545.00 + VAT
The above fees includes all expenses with the exception of postage and printing costs which
will be charged at the rates shown on the attached sheet (one set of all drawings produced
will be issued free of charge) and cost to obtain OS Location Plan which is estimated at
£ 40.00.
Payment Schedule: Fees to be paid in instalments as follows:
Stage 1 £ 910.00 + VAT following site survey and preparation of existing drawings
Stage 2 £ 1,885.00 + VAT on agreement of design proposal
Stage 3 £ 650.00 + VAT immediately prior to submission of Planning Permission application
Stage 4 £ 3,380.00 + VAT immediately prior to submission of Building Warrant
Stage 5 £ 720.00 + VAT on receipt of Building Warrant & Planning decision

 

In addition to my fees the following other costs are likely to be incurred should you proceed:
1. Planning Application Fee (payable to the Council) which is currently £401.00.
2. Building Warrant Lodging Fee (payable to the Council) which I estimate to be £ 1,755.00
(please note that this will subject to a discount as both myself and the engineer are Scottish Government
Approved Certifiers of Design).
3. Structural Engineers Fees the services of a structural engineer will be required to provide structural advice,
design, specification and certification (required for warrant) I’ve estimated this fees to be: £ 2,400.00 + VAT.
This fee would also include a site investigation report.

[ultramods]

First of all I would say if money is tight do you really want to be spending money on the old stone building to live in. What would be your plans for this building once your house is built? How much would you be spending on the old stone building building? I am assuming your current rent for a small flat can't be much and would probably be less than you would spend on converting the old building. 

 

In terms of the architect are they a proper architect (RIBA or RIAS) as this can impact what they charge? My fees were slightly less for a 326 sqm new build for an Architectural Technologist, however as you point out the quote is for 2 buildings.

 

If the passive house is going to be timber frame you could see if the TF company would do the building warrant for you instead of the architect. 

 

Edited August 4, 2018 by ultramods

[Mr Punter]

You could probably get the site survey and drawings done cheaper if you shop around.  If you like the type of designs the architect produces, go for stages 2 and 3 only.  Just get them to do the planning drawings.

[Square Feet]

Hi Ultramods, thanks for your reply.

 

The flat is owned outright and will be sold to fund the new build.  It is 20 miles away from the plot and I think I would prefer to live on site for convenience, security and also because we would prefer to live in the town where the plot is.

 

The plan is that the old building would be rented out to airbnb guests once we had finished the new build, which would provide a much-needed source of income.

 

Architect is RIAS, not RIBA.

 

I was planning on doing the timber frame myself, to save on costs.

 

[Gone West]

24 minutes ago, Square Feet said:

 

  I would also like to get some idea as to what parts of the work I could do myself (no architecture or engineering background, but I have been involved in numerous renovation projects over the years).

 

Don't be put off from doing the design and planning yourself. We had no experience of building when we started but we have managed to design and build a PH. It comes down to a lot of thought and reading before starting. Good luck.

[Square Feet]

23 minutes ago, Mr Punter said:

You could probably get the site survey and drawings done cheaper if you shop around.  If you like the type of designs the architect produces, go for stages 2 and 3 only.  Just get them to do the planning drawings.

Thanks.  I have to admit that I am not quite sure what is meant by 'existing drawings' in Stage 1.  Do you have any ideas?  I wasn't quite sure how Stage 1 and 2 were seperate.... can you enlighten me?  Sorry - edited this because I think I have answered my own question from the architect's contract:

 

Work Stage 1.0 – Preparation of the Brief
1.1 Ascertain Client Requirements
1.2 Obtain Site information from Client
1.3 Advise Client of his/her duties under CDM regulations
1.4 Visit Site and carry out preliminary appraisal
1.5 Identify Project and Construction Budgets
1.6 Develop outline brief
1.7 Agree Preliminary timetable
Work Stage 2.0 – Initial Design
2.1 Prepare initial design proposal
2.2 Provide indicative guidance on cost and timetable
Work Stage 3.0 – To Planning Consent Application
3.1 Consult with Local Authorities and Utilities as required
3.2 Progress Stage 2.1 design
3.3 Prepare application for Planning Permission
3.4 Submit application for Planning permission
3.5 Advise on procurement methods
3.6 Report on timetable, agree revisions

 

The architect's headed paper says 'Building Standards Approved Certifier' at the bottom - anyone know what this means and would it be worth keeping them on for the BW stage in that case?

 

Cheers

Edited August 4, 2018 by Square Feet

[Square Feet]

1 minute ago, PeterStarck said:

Don't be put off from doing the design and planning yourself. We had no experience of building when we started but we have managed to design and build a PH. It comes down to a lot of thought and reading before starting. Good luck.

Thanks Peter, that is good to hear.  I think that because of access restrictions, it would need to be a stick built structure so hopefully that would lend itself to a DIY approach.

[ultramods]

2 minutes ago, Square Feet said:

Hi Ultramods, thanks for your reply.

 

The flat is owned outright and will be sold to fund the new build.  It is 20 miles away from the plot and I think I would prefer to live on site for convenience, security and also because we would prefer to live in the town where the plot is.

 

The plan is that the old building would be rented out to airbnb guests once we had finished the new build, which would provide a much-needed source of income.

 

Architect is RIAS, not RIBA.

 

I was planning on doing the timber frame myself, to save on costs.

 

 

For a RIAS architect I think the quote is reasonable.

 

I was around £600 for site survey (0.25 acres), no existing structures but of trees.

 

Structural engineer was £1500 +VAT

 

Have you looked at using ICF if you plan on doing it yourself? @Alexphd1 has done this and might be able to tell you if he would recommend this compared to doing your own timber frame.

 

Also if money is tight don't underestimate the cost of service connections. if the services are not on site it can cost a lot of money to bring them on, depending on where they are.

 

Also if you need a self build mortgage there are a lot of "hidden" costs associated with this.

[Square Feet]

5 minutes ago, ultramods said:

 

For a RIAS architect I think the quote is reasonable.

 

I was around £600 for site survey (0.25 acres), no existing structures but of trees.

 

Structural engineer was £1500 +VAT

 

Have you looked at using ICF if you plan on doing it yourself? @Alexphd1 has done this and might be able to tell you if he would recommend this compared to doing your own timber frame.

 

Also if money is tight don't underestimate the cost of service connections. if the services are not on site it can cost a lot of money to bring them on, depending on where they are.

 

Also if you need a self build mortgage there are a lot of "hidden" costs associated with this.

Thanks Ultramods.  ICF doesn't appeal to me I must admit - as far as I understand it, it consists of two of the things I really don't like - concrete and polystyrene. Would much rather build a timber house if at all possible.

I haven't got quotes in for service connections yet, but I have established that all are very close to the site. ie water 10m, electricity 10m, drainage 40m, phone 5m.

No mortgage here - cash all the way.  It is both a blessing and a curse.

[ultramods]

@Square Feet Have you looked at Beattie Passive system? it looks like it would be good to use for a DIY project, however I think getting them to design the house is quite expensive.

 

http://www.beattiepassive.com/system.php

[Square Feet]

Thanks, I hadn't come across that - will have a read.

[A_L]

35 minutes ago, Square Feet said:

 

The architect's headed paper says 'Building Standards Approved Certifier' at the bottom - anyone know what this means and would it be worth keeping them on for the BW stage in that case?

 

@Square Feet , this a reference to the 'Approved Certifiers of Design' referred to in your first post which applies in Scotland. They come in two versions, 'Building Structures' and 'Energy'. As competent persons (well maybe?) their work does not have to be checked by BC at building warrant stage and a small discount is available.

 

http://www.certificationregister.co.uk/

[newhome]

34 minutes ago, Square Feet said:

I haven't got quotes in for service connections yet, but I have established that all are very close to the site. ie water 10m, electricity 10m, drainage 40m, phone 5m.

 

That doesn't seem to make much difference as there are a number of tales here about electricity connections (for example) coming in at huge cost because they are out of capacity. Even drainage etc can be very costly. So do your homework fully in this area as it could blow your budget. A couple of topics relating to this are below. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Square Feet]

I should have said that the seller has agreed to an offer subject to planning.  We haven't hammered out a price yet, but once we do I will be able to sort out things like service quotes etc as well as the planning to make sure there are no nasty surprises awaiting me.  So the final plunge won't be taken until I am absolutely sure about everything.

Thanks for the links though - I had read Christine's tale of woe already, but not the other one, which I will do now.  

[newhome]

Maybe you could ask that the services are connected as part of the deal? 

[Square Feet]

Hi Newhome,  I have been reading some of your posts - be interested to hear where you are sometime.  The plot is very cheap so I won't be able to swing that one, unfortunately.  The seller has said though that I can run service trenches through his land as part of the deal which will make a big difference I think.

[newhome]

I'm on the coast in the Borders about 20 miles north of Berwick Upon Tweed. 

 

 

[PeterW]

The drainage at 40m concerns me a little ... That would be a pretty long run and I’d want to make sure the falls are in place or you may have problems. Alternative will be a sewage pump and 63mm MDPE that doesn’t need a fall until it gets to the main sewer but gives more problems. 

[Square Feet]

40 m is an estimate on my part - the land falls away towards the main road and it is there that the drain would need connected.  This involves running through the seller's property, which he has agreed to.  The architect didn't think it was a problem when he came out for a site visit, hopefully he is right.  I would of course make sure of this before paying for the plot.

[ProDave]

The price seems fair to me. Last time I tried approaching an architect I was quoted about £25K for a similar package and they would not negotiate one tiny bit, which is why you will not find me speaking highly about architects.