Taking water from a stream - simple pumping solutions

[daiking]

Even in this weather there is a bit of water in the stream that runs along the side of my garden. It would be a great help if I could take a little bit to help water my lawn.

 

Ideally I'd like to just be able to deploy a hose through the fence and down the 1m+ bank into the stream and suck the water out via that rather than climbing over to deploy a submersible pump or fill buckets.

 

Is there anything simple I could be doing? ( I have no idea about ponds and their pumps for instance)

Edited June 29, 2018 by daiking

[Ferdinand]

I don’t know about this, but I am interested in hearing for the future. 

 

I know that there is an extraction limit of 20 cubic metres per day without declaring it, but I am not sure if you need to declare the *existence* of the extraction.

 

Not whether using a hose not connected to the mains would contravene a putative hosepipe ban.

 

F

 

Edited June 29, 2018 by Ferdinand

[daiking]

1 hour ago, Ferdinand said:

I don’t know about this, but I am interested in hearing for the future. 

 

I know that there is an extraction limit of 20 cubic metres per day without declaring it, but I am not sure if you need to declare the *existence* of the extraction.

 

Not whether using a hose not connected to the mains would contravene a putative hosepipe ban.

 

F

 

 

I won't be reporting anything, it's a small suburban house not Old Trafford. A few hundred litres a day would be great, not cubic metres, lol.

Edited June 29, 2018 by daiking

[Jeremy Harris]

No need to declare any abstraction of less than 20,000 litres per day and there is no requirement for a licence.  The exception is if you divert a watercourse in order to do so, in which case you do need consent.  Dropping a suction pipe into a stream isn't diversion.  Creating a culvert or gulley that diverts some of the water out of the stream and into a pond or through a garden IS a diversion and does normally require consent and a licence.

 

New rules came into force on 1st January this year but they do not affect those using low volume abstraction.  I looked into this as we draw our water from a borehole and are subject the same regulations.

 

To stay legal, I'd be inclined to just drop a submersible pump into the stream and draw what water you need.  You are very unlikely to exceed the 20,000 litres per 24 hours limit.  I ran our 700 W borehole pump flat out, with a full flow coming out of a length o 25mm MDPE, for around 48 hours non stop and only managed to pull around 26,000 litres per 24 hours from the borehole, which is a heck of a lot of water.

[PeterW]

Hose bans are funny things ... some water authorities state its the hose irrespective of the water source as it all affects water levels. 

 

I would do it with a filter and a self priming pump - a decent pressure type one is less than £100 on eBay. Quick and easy and only needs a hose into the stream. 

[Temp]

Your pump will need to be capable of a "negative head" of at least a few meters (height of bank +  bit).  Some care is needed to get the right pressure and flow rate if you plan to connect the pump directly to the sprinkler.

 

Personally I would go for a pump with a bladder tank built in but they are a bit more expensive. They switch on an off automatically as the pressure in the tank varies. Typically they have the pump mounted on the metal casing of the bladder tank and it's easy to mount a filter to the input.

 

Hoselock do one (without a bladder tank?) but I've never used one.. .

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2018 by Temp

[Temp]

This is the sort of pump I've used. Got it in Belgium when we lived over there. Some come with plastic parts rather than stainless steel. 

 

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-pressure-best-brand-stainless-steel_60488160410.html

[daiking]

This is moving toward not worth the expense when a 'cube' of water is only £4-5. I want something about the price of a cheap submersible pump but without the hassle of digging the ladders out to climb over the fence every time an its a bit of a stretch to the far side of the stream which is deep enough for a submersible to go in.

 

I hadn't actually got as far as thinking about distribution, I was planning on having a water butt to fill. and distribute from there, not directly.

[Vijay]

Just get a self priming pump and some hose then, can't see you needing more than that  But maybe consider getting an IBC if you have space as your buffer tank?

[ProDave]

I would use my submirsible pump if I felt the need to water the garden from the burn, but since our water is not metered, I see little point.

 

At a previous house, we had a well in the garden from before mains water came to the village, as far as we could tell it used to serve at least 4 properties.  I had a pump to extract water from that, which sat on a ledge just under the manhole well above the high water line. It wasn't self priming, but a non return foot valve took care of that and ensured once primed for the first time, it was ready for use any time we wanted.

 

The pump I used was one that got chucked out from work with an odd 208V motor that got very bothered fed from 240V so I lashed up an old transformer to act as an autotransformer and it worked well.

[Jeremy Harris]

1 hour ago, daiking said:

This is moving toward not worth the expense when a 'cube' of water is only £4-5. I want something about the price of a cheap submersible pump but without the hassle of digging the ladders out to climb over the fence every time an its a bit of a stretch to the far side of the stream which is deep enough for a submersible to go in.

 

I hadn't actually got as far as thinking about distribution, I was planning on having a water butt to fill. and distribute from there, not directly.

 

 

I have a spare pump you can have for the price of the collection.  It needs priming, but once primed it stays primed.  It's the WZI750 on this page: http://www.dambat.com/wzi-pumps.html

 

It's barely been used, I ran it for about a week when I was playing with a two-pump system for the house.  I also have a 650 litre (I think) rectangular slimline water storage tank and a float switch to turn the pump on and off if you want it.  They are all surplus to my requirements, but are big so will need transport.  I can help load up this end.  I also have some spare 25mm MDPE and fittings, to go with it.

 

Yours if you want it, no charge.  Just PM me or say you want it on here.  You have first dibs on it; if you don't want it then anyone else is welcome to it all.

 

Edited to add:

 

Found the info on the water tank, it's this 650 litre one: https://www.directwatertanks.co.uk/industrial-tanks/window-cleaning-water-tanks/650-litres-baffled-window-cleaning-water-tank-upright

 

It has a drain cock already fitted at the base (3/4" BSP IIRC) and an overflow pipe fitted to the rear near the top.  There are two holes on the top with pipe fittings, one to fill the tank one to feed water out to a pump.  Either could be blocked off if not needed.  The float switch cable comes out through a cable gland on the top, and is adjustable so you can set when the pump comes on and off.  I had it set to turn the pump on when the tank was about 2/3rds empty and te off again when the tank was full, but it's easily adjustable by sliding a weight along the cable.

Edited June 29, 2018 by JSHarris
Added info

[Vijay]

23 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

 

I have a spare pump you can have for the price of the collection.  It needs priming, but once primed it stays primed.  It's the WZI750 on this page: http://www.dambat.com/wzi-pumps.html

 

It's barely been used, I ran it for about a week when I was playing with a two-pump system for the house.  I also have a 650 litre (I think) rectangular slimline water storage tank and a float switch to turn the pump on and off if you want it.  They are all surplus to my requirements, but are big so will need transport.  I can help load up this end.  I also have some spare 25mm MDPE and fittings, to go with it.

 

Yours if you want it, no charge.  Just PM me or say you want it on here.  You have first dibs on it; if you don't want it then anyone else is welcome to it all.

 

How about that for forum love - brilliant!!

[Nickfromwales]

Don't forget to make sure the collection hose is a proper SUCTION rated hose or it'll collapse. 

Just throw a filtered basket type pickup on the end and don't put the pump in the stream. Just thinking liability / water / electric / other folk etc. 

A cheap drill powered pump will fill up a water butt quickly enough. 

[daiking]

1 hour ago, ProDave said:

 our water is not metered, I see little point.

 

If I wasn't metered I'm not sure I would be too bothered either

 

Thanks @JSHarris but that capability is far in excess of what I am planning for.

 

Something like a Karcher BP2 or a Clarke SPE800 looks like it would be more than adequate however my wife wants an anniversary present not a self priming garden pump.

[daiking]

10 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Don't forget to make sure the collection hose is a proper SUCTION rated hose or it'll collapse. 

Just throw a filtered basket type pickup on the end and don't put the pump in the stream. Just thinking liability / water / electric / other folk etc. 

A cheap drill powered pump will fill up a water butt quickly enough. 

 

Of course, the whole point of this is not having to go anywhere near the stinky muddy stream unless I need to rescue another football that's been kicked over the fence.

 

The Axminster drill pump looks ok for a drill pump but still needs stuff like a filter and non-return valve for the end of the suction hose otherwise I'd never be able to prime it. How do you even prime it?

[Ferdinand]

3 hours ago, daiking said:

 

I won't be reporting anything, it's a small suburban house not Old Trafford. A few hundred litres a day would be great, not cubic metres, lol.

 

Heh. Yes - I'm just doing research for when I want to live next to a river and grow watercress with a water reservoir that just happens to be the same shape as a small natural swimming pool ?.

 

[Jeremy Harris]

33 minutes ago, daiking said:

 

If I wasn't metered I'm not sure I would be too bothered either

 

Thanks @JSHarris but that capability is far in excess of what I am planning for.

 

Something like a Karcher BP2 or a Clarke SPE800 looks like it would be more than adequate however my wife wants an anniversary present not a self priming garden pump.

 

 

OK, as it happens someone else would like it, so all's well!

[SteamyTea]

9 hours ago, daiking said:

a 'cube' of water is only £4-5

I wish.