ToughButterCup Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 I'm sold on the idea of Nulok. But....read on I have talked to and exchanged emails with the current importer The business has been operating for 2 years. But more than long enough to avoid this sort of thing. A whois.com search doesn't inspire confidence either. The company will not take credit card transactions. I have asked by email for customer references. The answer I got was evasive: no references, just links to commercial partners. A chat with @PeterStarck (who fitted his roof with Nulok) confirmed that the system is indeed worth detailed consideration. But Peter bought from a different importer who appears not to be in business any longer. I have searched for alternative suppliers of the Nulok. No joy. Anyone know anything about the current Nulok importer, or know of a supplier other than Lilyash.com? I would be most grateful if you could help me ..... thanks Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Depends what you’re looking for.... Current importer is registered with CoHo and has filed accounts so has a trading history. Not taking cards is not a big issue for me - small companies get penalised with bank charges of up to 4.5% by merchants for card transactions so it’s understandable if you are taking up to 30% of their margin that they are reluctant or won’t take cards It boils down to “what do you want”..? Is it tech support..? Installation assistance..? Warranty..? The Nu-lok online resources are very good and it’s a system I would consider with a slate roof as it has a lot of plus points. Slate roofing hasn’t moved on in generations so anything “new” will be viewed with suspicion by many and from experience the roofing trade is one that is still stuck in the 1800’s... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, PeterW said: Not taking cards is not a big issue for me It's a big issue for me since paying up front in the form of cash leaves you completely exposed if a company fails before supplying the goods. Paying just a small amount on a credit card for goods costing over £100 provides full protection in the event that the company goes into administration under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and it costs the company next to nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 I'm looking for openness and answers to simple questions, @PeterW. You know me: I'm an early adopter and have no real problem buying 'non traditional' products (for example Durisol). I agree wholeheartedly, Nulok does look very good. Anything that moves the sector on a place or two has to be good, but I also agree that most want to build as they've always built before. The current importer has been asked for customer references: an attempt at an answer was made, but no customer reference was given. A small deposit on a Credit Card covers the whole transaction, I understand. 4.5% of £1000 is nowt. For all I care his company can add the £45.0 to the total price if it's a concern. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, recoveringacademic said: A whois.com search doesn't inspire confidence either. I do no see anything wrong with the WhoIs entry for nulokroofing.com I agree that the UK representation for Nulok is comically deficient and leads me to wonder how the person behind this manages to retain representation rights at a national level for NuLok. I tried to reach NuLok UK via their web site but did not get a reply. Edit: I was wrong about the Republic of Ireland telephone number, it is an 033 number with a long delay to connect. On Thursday I spoke to a roofer working on my neighbour's new build and we discussed roofing of my future new build in slate. I asked about NuLok and he confirmed doing one job with the system, he was not keen because from his pro perspective he did not see time savings. I went on to ask about material savings and said it seemed to make the job diy approachable, he conceded these points. Edited June 17, 2018 by epsilonGreedy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 We looked hard at using NuLok, as they looked good and the chap on their stand at the Swindon centre was very helpful. The planners were also just about OK with them, too. In the end we didn't simply because the UK agent seemed to just disappear at the time we were looking to place an order. Looks like there's another UK agent now. The system itself impressed me, and I doubt there is any problem at all with the quality of the product, it just seems to be poorly represented in the UK for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 23 minutes ago, PeterW said: The Nu-lok online resources are very good and it’s a system I would consider with a slate roof as it has a lot of plus points. Presentation of the brand at a global level is good, the problem for a UK self builder is establishing a minimum viable purchase dialogue with their local representative. They must be loosing a ton of business and this leads me to believe the few UK customers who manage to complete the pre purchase Lilyash assault course will be paying over the odds for the product to make up for the lost revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 16 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: .....he was not keen because from his pro perspective he did not see time savings If I had a pound for every time I’ve heard that etc ... The amount of trades who think that learning stops when they leave college (if they went ..) is amazing - the fact that they can make significant time savings on jobs just by using “new” products and the return on the investment in a single day training is impossibly to quantify. A friend of mine runs a heating and plumbing supply company and they run supplier days. One boiler manufacturer offered a half day course in fitting their new boiler that uses a pre-fitted frame that is piped up and tested before the boiler is installed. They reckon it halves the install time and reduces the problems with installs. One person attending said he would stop using that brand of boiler because “he would earn less and it cost more” and couldn’t be convinced that he could fit more boilers in the same time so could potentially earn more ..!! When faced with that sort of mentality, is there any wonder customers struggle ..?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 minute ago, epsilonGreedy said: Presentation of the brand at a global level is good, the problem for a UK self builder is establishing a minimum viable purchase dialogue with their local representative. They must be loosing a ton of business and this leads me to believe the few UK customers who manage to complete the pre purchase Lilyash assault course will be paying over the odds for the product to make up for the lost revenue. So go direct to the brand ..!! A quick email to the head office saying you want to place an order but can’t get a response from xyz U.K. disti and you will get pricing I can assure you ..! I think we once worked out that on here there is a combined £50m buying power ( @MikeSharp01 that’s about right isn’t it..?) and yet I’m always amazed that people aren’t prepared to prod suppliers to get a response ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSharp01 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, PeterW said: I think we once worked out that on here there is a combined £50m buying power ( @MikeSharp01 that’s about right isn’t it..?) Well we have 1400 (ish) members so to have £50m buying power each would have to be spending about £36k which it feels like I spent last month on muck away, type 1, peashingle and EPS. So over all our projects say spending £200k on average the buying power over time of the people on here might be as much as £280m - makes you think doesn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProDave Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @recoveringacademic Are you thinking of it just for tiles / slates, or are you thinking of it for the solar pv tiles (that they make some spurious half price claim for)? A company I worked for did some work on individual roof tile solar pv panels. In this contect we made a laser micromachining system that did one part of the manufacturing process. But the thing that struck me was you would have hundreds, possibly over 1000 individual solar panels to connect together, and I could imagine the connector system being a bit of a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 34 minutes ago, PeterW said: 39 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: the few UK customers who manage to complete the pre purchase Lilyash assault course will be paying over the odds for the product to make up for the lost revenue. So go direct to the brand ..!! A quick email to the head office saying you want to place an order but can’t get a response from xyz U.K. disti and you will get pricing I can assure you ..! I imagine the head office will just chase up the UK office to quote and you may still be paying over the odds. The thing that would worry me about the UK based company is its trading history since it appears to have been around for 17 years but at least 2 companies have been dissolved in that time and then reformed under a different name, but the current director features in all of them. So safeguarding my money if I was to purchase and they wanted monies upfront would be a primary concern. If they won't invoice you post delivery maybe you could arrange for the monies to be paid into a 3rd party holding account and paid once the delivery has taken place. So something like an Escrow account, but I'm not sure how easy that is to do. Certainly nowhere near as easy as paying a deposit on a credit card! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 hour ago, PeterW said: So go direct to the brand ..!! A quick email to the head office saying you want to place an order but can’t get a response from xyz U.K. disti and you will get pricing I can assure you ..! I think we once worked out that on here there is a combined £50m buying power ( @MikeSharp01 that’s about right isn’t it..?) and yet I’m always amazed that people aren’t prepared to prod suppliers to get a response ... I like the sentiment though doubt it will work in this case. How will they ship to the UK from outside of Europe and with what time delay? I also suspect regional agency rights would deem such direct dealing to be in breech of contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 49 minutes ago, newhome said: UK based company is its trading history since it appears to have been around for 17 years but at least 2 companies have been dissolved in that time and then reformed under a different name, but the current director features in all of them Sorry - only looked at Lilyash and that director looks to be related to the previous but has never been a director of any of the others hence I didn’t look much further ..! See what you mean about the other companies now ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 minute ago, epsilonGreedy said: I like the sentiment though doubt it will work in this case. How will they ship to the UK from outside of Europe and with what time delay? I also suspect regional agency rights would deem such direct dealing to be in breech of contract. Not suggesting buying direct - just using a HO push to get disti pricing. It does work - I’ve done it a number of times - and you have to just take a punt occasionally ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 I wonder if the french building industry offers an alternative? When sailing around Brittany I see many new-build high-pitch slate roofs with shiny clips evident across the rows of tiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, PeterW said: Sorry - only looked at Lilyash and that director looks to be related to the previous but has never been a director of any of the others hence I didn’t look much further ..! See what you mean about the other companies now ! According to this Yell business entry, Lilyash has installed 1/2 million sq m of NuLok. They must be so short of time dealing with this incredible success story they have not been able to get their web site operational. https://www.yell.com/biz/lilyash-ltd-ballymena-8656802/ Quote Business overview Global leaders in innovative natural slate & nu-slate ceramic roofing Nu-Lok Ireland is a Co Antrim based Company owned and directed by Paul Stevenson. We purchased the distribution rights to the Nu-Lok roofing system for Ireland in early 2000 and since then we have had the pleasure to supply and install over 500,000 sqm of this incredible product on some of the most prestige building in North and South Ireland. With over 25 years of roofing experience we clearly seen the Nu-Lok Roofing System as the future in roofing and over the past 10 years we have enjoyed nothing more than seeing the joy on our Clients faces when they see the finished product and know that their investment has been well worth while. Not only that but 10 years on when we speak to some of our first clients it is great to hear that they still take great joy and pride in their Nu-Lok roof. Edited June 17, 2018 by epsilonGreedy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToughButterCup Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 hour ago, ProDave said: @recoveringacademic Are you thinking of it just for tiles / slates, or are you thinking of it for the solar pv tiles (that they make some spurious half price claim for)?[...] The solar tiles are wired in series. [:-{ I'd just like some tiles, please...... paid for by credit card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 @recoveringacademic have you looked at EasySlate which is a simpler rubber implementation of the same concept albeit the inter slate perp component is nailed to a regular wooden batten? I spoke to a representative for the Easyxxx product range at the Bicester self build show. He dismissed out of hand that the system offered slate material savings on a regular pitched roof and stated the EasySlate system was specifically for low pitched roofs. This is odd because the following product description mentions increased effective overlaps as a benefit which I interpret as equivalent to slate material saving at a regular pitch. http://www.permavent.co.uk/easy-slate/ https://www.roofingsuperstore.co.uk/product/permavent-easy-slate-side-check-for-600-x-300mm-slate-sold-per-strip.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 35 minutes ago, epsilonGreedy said: According to this Yell business entry, Lilyash has installed 1/2 million sq ft of NuLok. They must be so short of time dealing with this incredible success story they have not been able to get their web site operational. And that 500,000 m2 is only in Ireland apparently so must be huge in the rest of the UK . I can't understand what market they are trying to target TBH since there appears to be no (or very little) attempt to market their product. There is no website, hardly anything on their Facebook page (and only 23 people have liked their page), and hardly any mention on the web in this country. I assume they previously marketed it through the Swindon centre as @JSHarris mentions but it appears that was through a different supplier. They seemed to have had a tie in with Kingspan at some point but I'm not sure whether that product is still marketed. https://www.kingspan.com/gb/en-gb/products/insulated-panel-systems/roof-panel-systems/slate-tile-support-roof-panels-with-nulok-ks100 The director has a LinkedIn profile but there isn't much info on there, although they seemed to have supplied the roof for a church in London but via a contractor called Ashford and Cranbrook Roofing https://www.saint-silas.org.uk/solar-roof-project.html http://www.cranbrookroofing.co.uk/Pages/stsilas.htm https://www.facebook.com/St-Silas-Big-Green-Roof-Project-326837713761/ That's pretty much the largest install I can find for the product and indeed one of the only documented installs I can find. So it's all a bit odd TBH! You would have to buy spare of everything I imagine just in case supply fizzled out at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, newhome said: So it's all a bit odd TBH! You would have to buy spare of everything I imagine just in case supply fizzled out at some point. Odd indeed. Ultimate responsibility must rest with the Aussie international business development exec at NuLok who has allowed this situation to evolve. Maybe they tried to enter the British market and encountered type approval hurdles, so now we are left with this low-key presence available for a few tenacious self builders like @ra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Harris Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 What I find odd is that the product looks really good. The chap on their (old company) stand at Swindon was happy to demonstrate how it worked and I have to say I thought it was impressive, very quick to install from what I could see, with high quality components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 1 minute ago, epsilonGreedy said: Odd indeed. Ultimate responsibility must rest with the Aussie international business development exec at NuLok who has allowed this situation to evolve. Maybe they tried to enter the British market and encountered type approval hurdles, so now we are left with this low-key presence available for a few tenacious self builders like @ra. One of the directors in Aus has the same surname as the director of Lilyash here. Just sayin . And he has a company registered in the UK since the beginning of this year: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/36FTeeA5AcM2V88k4v2Bp_kymng/appointments http://mail.nulok.com.au/contact/about/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Plus the Aus guy was one of the directors of the original Irish company too along with the current director of Lilyash https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/NI039864/officers Very weird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilonGreedy Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, newhome said: One of the directors in Aus has the same surname as the director of Lilyash here. Just sayin . And he has a company registered in the UK since the beginning of this year: Ho hmm, this pours water on the notion that a direct appeal to Aus HQ would stir things up in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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