Basework on slope/ cabin.

[joe90]

From my point of view, ground screws can be wound it till they hit stable/hard ground which may even be below the stream bed, you just keep winding till they are solid. Any ground above that does not have to be stable (think of a seaside pier, sand moves but pier stays still). Timber structure can be DIY (we can give you a design) . No heavy equipment to ruin your lawn, diggers, cement  mixers, hairy assed builders ? and if you dig you have to get rid of the spoil (tell me about it, I have 100 tons of clay that no one wants). If you are not sure about DIY timber structure there are decent wood workers about ( look for recommendations from people that have had work done locally.) just wait for others to agree/disagree.?

[zoothorn]

So are we talking leave slope as is, fire in three biggest 850mm GS's right in so they protrude a normal ~ 6" or so.. then add a really major HD pier on top: & as much as 1m would be ok? what about somesort of cross braces to fix across from the top of the timber piers up from the low sides, to the other (high side) GS top points?

 

 

 

 

[joe90]

Right, I don’t do CAD or anything posh, I am a pencil and paper man. See my very rough and ready drawings as below, 6inch posts (vertical) sat on ground screws driven in till they hit solid matter, 9x2 joists to support the deck, these to be repeated every 400mm (use joist hangers) and cross braces of 4x2. All joints to be M12 bolts (galvanised), all timber to be pressure treated. You will need a deck if the shed/other does not have a floor. Obviously all dimensions to fit your ground, shed/other. Others will be along now with other ideas but this is what I would do.

[zoothorn]

Joe90 a gentleman you are, thanks/ just as I would do, a photo of a sketch much easier to visualise than a pc image. All makes alot more sense now I can see this & sort of what I thought of after your suggestions.

 

I think this (sketch B) might be just the ticket: but others' opinions would be welcome before I go with this as final idea.

 

What I'll do is pass this onto my builder.. he'd never heard of groundscrews, at a guess maybe a recent 'invention' of sorts for him. He & I could do easily I'm sure.. but prefer if a pro on board with me/ alot (in my world anyway) being at stake to sit ontop.

[zoothorn]

@joe90 Hi there Joe!- I need to resurrect this thread! (& anyone else who might advise). I'm finally in a position to attempt this tricky base build on my near impossible slope-down-to-stream lower garden area.

 

I couldn't attempt myself (hence stalling on idea) as the footings too tricky for me, & also no clear solution. So I chanced upon a pro,  whose work I saw on a nature reserve (builds boardwalks, & big nature reserve cabins.. so this job pretty small fry for him).

 

So his suggestion is build 3 big solid concrete footings, 2-3ft wide, concrete into big black tubing stuff. 3 next to stream. Then its up to me to do the rest, IE corresponding 3 footings opposite (on the high slope side), 3 in between (so he says the best idea).. & timber base onto these 9 etc.

 

What I need to establish before he starts, is how & where the log cabin should sit ontop. The next-to-stream footings, forming a line of 3, is a good 1m away from where I want my cabin side to be. My Q is if my base is say 4m sq, can the cabin sit happily within it? IE a 3mx3m cabin, onto a 4mx4m base.. is this possible if I were to build the base top in some fashion to suit?

 

thanks, zoot

[ProDave]

A bit like a house near me built on a steep slope right next to the burn.

 

Under each of these piles a a 1 metre square of concrete and the piles are formed by pouring concrete into 300mm diameter plastic drain pipe sections. 

 

[joe90]

2 hours ago, zoothorn said:

What I need to establish before he starts, is how & where the log cabin should sit ontop. The next-to-stream footings, forming a line of 3, is a good 1m away from where I want my cabin side to be. My Q is if my base is say 4m sq, can the cabin sit happily within it? IE a 3mx3m cabin, onto a 4mx4m base.. is this possible if I were to build the base top in some fashion to suit?

 

Dont understand the question really, why not put the 6 piles where you want the cabin?, 3 along the front and 3 along the back, make sure the 4 corner ones are where the corners of the build will be to support the join from front or rear to side members, do your self a diagram of what you want and post it here fir comments.

[zoothorn]

@ProDave yes that's what he suggested.. & going ahead any day.

 

The thing is trawling log cabin base info, all suggestions are to make the base fit the 4 walls, as the load is peripheral/ only here (not the floor).

 

With mine, bc the only place to site the far side 3 pillars, is right down near the stream. Then if the cabin side walls directly above this line of three (for ideal load bearing etc) the cabin will sit too far over twds stream. I want it shifted inwards from here ~0.5m min. Maybe 1m.

 

So is this oversize base ok? if so do I have to re-inforce its flat top somehow to accomodate this shift inwards? or is it a definite no-no/ I must make the base same size as cabin to distribute its 4 wall's weight directly down onto the footing pillars.

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, joe90 said:

 

Dont understand the question really, why not put the 6 piles where you want the cabin?, 3 along the front and 3 along the back, make sure the 4 corner ones are where the corners of the build will be to support the join from front or rear to side members, do your self a diagram of what you want and post it here fir comments.

 

@joe90 does my reply to ProDave's shed any light? (clever pun intended).

[joe90]

11 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

With mine, bc the only place to site the far side 3 pillars, is right down near the stream.

 

Why?, they can go in a slope if that’s where you want the edge of the cabin to be, or am I missing something?

[PeterW]

If this is a standard 3x3 cabin then you’re talking 7-800kg at most. 9 concrete pillars is a little overkill .... 

[zoothorn]

19 minutes ago, PeterW said:

If this is a standard 3x3 cabin then you’re talking 7-800kg at most. 9 concrete pillars is a little overkill .... 

 

Yes I was wondering this too- good so I'll leave out the 3 centre ones he suggested (prob cos he's used to bigass hides etc without a suspended floor like log cabins).

 

Actually its a toss up between the proper whole-hog route: a new 3x3m cabin @ £2k.. or.. Ive been offered a used 2x2m log cabin for £600. Tempting but the door askew/ to fix, window likewise, pain or two gone.. & I need to decontruct it. Saves me £1.4k tho.

 

But the same thing applies: if I were to make the base 3x3, & say change my mind or run out of budget.. could I sit this 2x2m log cabin on it?

[zoothorn]

34 minutes ago, joe90 said:

 

Why?, they can go in a slope if that’s where you want the edge of the cabin to be, or am I missing something?

 

Good Q Joe. The only thing you're missing is just up onto the bank, say 1m away from stream.. the ground is poor/ very loose, & the gradient is suddenly steep so alot to excavate to get down to stream 'bedrock' which is where he wants to go up from, & where I'd be happy only for them to sit tbh so bad the ground is here. The ground topside is alot firmer: I'm happy to dig hole > concrete > paving slab etc footing here.

 

I'm lucky in finding this guy- ideal guy for the job: I knew if the job wasn't sitting well with me, to not rush ahead but wait until the right plan fell into place (chap I found in this case).

 

I think he mentioned a few re-inforcing rods rammed down into the earth prior to concrete filling too. Approx £350 to do these 3, not cheap, but I think sensible. Maybe £150 on the pillars/ deck base. Plus £2k on the cabin.

 

cheers zoot

[ProDave]

The one I posted about a few posts back, took weeks and weeks of work, They first had to remove a lot of very soft top soil and remove it from site as there was no room to store it.  Then they had to dig the 1M square pads and pour those. Then cast the actual pillars, then put a lot of the top soil back.  I am sure the pile foundations for this small house on this very difficult site cost more than the very much more conventional foundations for my much larger house.

 

What I have found if you dig close to the edge of our burn, you are into very soft saturated ground,

 

[joe90]

30 minutes ago, ProDave said:

What I have found if you dig close to the edge of our burn, you are into very soft saturated ground,

 

I would have thought you would need to excavate to below the level of stream bed to reach firm ground but you will only find this out by digging I suppose. But I still think ground screws are an option that is a lot easier, just found this. https://www.groundscrewcentre.co.uk/

Edited July 9, 2019 by joe90

[zoothorn]

1 minute ago, joe90 said:

 

I would have thought you would need to excavate to below the level of stream bed to reach firm ground but you will only find this out by digging I suppose.

 

I think you may be right, he gave me the impression that yes like you say below stream level to reach firm ground.. but this reached in only inches rather than anything dramatic. Anyway I've just measured up & I'm going for a 3M (or 3.5m) x 3m, new cabin.

 

So now I can build footings on the exact periphery walls. In mind this one altho no thicker 45mm wall option or double glaze options.. sure would look purty & pitch of roof would compliment my house opposite end of gdn.. https://www.tuin.co.uk/Skov-Log-Cabin-3.5x3m.html

[Temp]

You will need some timber or steel beams to make a platform on which to build the cabin. If the pads are further apart than they need be that just affects the size of the beams. No big deal.

[zoothorn]

10 hours ago, Temp said:

You will need some timber or steel beams to make a platform on which to build the cabin. If the pads are further apart than they need be that just affects the size of the beams. No big deal.

 

Platform.. thats the word I needed thanks Temp. I wonder then if I were to use the right guage beams, could I space both my side 3x footings to 5M total, my cabin 3M, to then shift cabin farthest back.. to free up a 2M area in front to form a veranda. Its the load of the cabin's front wall across, onto what this rests is the Q here.

 

Talking to the chap at the time (the Co he works for http://www.elmwales.co.uk/

 -the pic: Dyfi ospreys reserve) he mentioned 20% overhang can be safely used too. IE a bit of deck over the stream maybe.. could be a neat idea.. but I don't think quite enough area for a front veranda/ sit area etc.

 

One possible concern, is the combined H of both base + cabin re. PP dept. If they were to deem it 'one structure' it'll be ~4.3m high. But if just the cabin.. 2.7m (IE no need for PP). With m sod n'bors itching to get at me they -will- enquire to PP dept just once Ive built it, if I just go ahead. Any ideas? maybe @PeterW might know?

[joe90]

quick glance found this https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/43/outbuildings

 

and this https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/32793/where-do-i-measure-a-buildings-height-on-uneven-ground-for-uk-planning-restrict

 

so..... ‘Height’ - references to height (for example, the heights of the eaves on a house extension) is the height measured from ground level. Ground level is the surface of the ground immediately adjacent to the building in question. Where ground level is not uniform (e.g. if the ground is sloping), then the ground level is the highest part of the surface of the ground next to the building

Edited July 10, 2019 by joe90

[zoothorn]

Hi Joe

1 hour ago, joe90 said:

quick glance found this https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/43/outbuildings

 

and this https://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/32793/where-do-i-measure-a-buildings-height-on-uneven-ground-for-uk-planning-restrict

 

so..... ‘Height’ - references to height (for example, the heights of the eaves on a house extension) is the height measured from ground level. Ground level is the surface of the ground immediately adjacent to the building in question. Where ground level is not uniform (e.g. if the ground is sloping), then the ground level is the highest part of the surface of the ground next to the building

 

Hi Joe, many thanks for this. Trouble is I cannot understand this portal page: I get so stressed reading it & can't make head or tail trying multiple times- its worded so complicatedly I find a number of answers to one simple question, or the next time I read it a different answer results: I just can't cope. I think it needs experience of complex building rules to interpret it or something.

 

The second link starts out simple, along the lines you refer to, but the last reply.. again goes into total complex xyz something to do with it all relative to the house level, meaning I cannot understand this either.

 

I will have to go on your far superior brain to interpret. Can you definitely say, from my design (basically like your sketch, pg 2 I think, the structure on the slope looking side-on) that the H would be taken from the ground @ the shortest platform side/ the highest ground side of the slope/ let's say adjacent to where my shortass 3x 1ft high (approx) piles would be-? sorry for my thickness.

Edited July 10, 2019 by zoothorn

[zoothorn]

Just called my PP officer to try & get clarification.. who couldn't find relevant info there & then on call, so is emailing me something on. But it'll likely be the same page joe90 gave me.

 

Joe where did you get your paragraph info from, below the 2 links in your last post.. somewhere in this portal?

[joe90]

33 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Joe where did you get your paragraph info from, below the 2 links in your last post.. somewhere in this portal?

 

Yes it was from the second link (stack exchange etc), see what you get from your planners and post it here, we will go from there ?. I will do you a little diagram of what I would do and I would like input from others here on their thoughts.

[zoothorn]

Very grateful joe90.. waiting on the email: if he can find what he wants to send- tbh even this PP officer sometimes sounds bewidered by all the portal stuff too.. so it aint just me.

 

I'm quite inclined to go ahead & put the sodding thing up.. but for my n'bors sitting waiting for any opportunity to strike back at me.

[Onoff]

39 minutes ago, zoothorn said:

Very grateful joe90.. waiting on the email: if he can find what he wants to send- tbh even this PP officer sometimes sounds bewidered by all the portal stuff too.. so it aint just me.

 

I'm quite inclined to go ahead & put the sodding thing up.. but for my n'bors sitting waiting for any opportunity to strike back at me.

 

Doing if without proper approval if needed...could be a slippery slope.

[joe90]

1 minute ago, Onoff said:

Doing if without proper approval if needed...could be a slippery slope.

 

Was the pun intended @Onoff ???. I think between us we can establish if it’s needed or not, with @zoothorn,s neighbours we have to make sure it’s done properly ?